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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 07:01 TricksAre4Figs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:00 Cushion wrote:
Reading this thread is bad for my health, but I can't help but to post. Everyone is making this something it isn't. So i've come from just being a forum leech that reads, and never contributes to post at least once in this thread.
I truly don't feel what Destiny did falls under rasism. He just used a word, he didn't spit in the guys face for being from a specific race (which i've actually been a victim of)! What he did was obviously wrong and bad manners, but IMHO not racism.
I don't feel like Destiny should have been kicked out of quantic. I think that's going too far. He should recieve some sort of punishment obviously, but to ruin his career (cause no team is going to pick him up). Is far worse of a crime then what he did.
I can't comment on how he got banned from the TL.net sidebar cause I don't know the full story, but it seems like he did do enough to deserve that one.
I can say I've watched destiny's stream before and I felt it was lacking, and a bit stale. However the time I did watch it he used adult language enough for me not to be surprised by something like this. If I'm not mistaken he did have a langauge advisory stamp in his stream thread. We're all guilty of using words that we shouldn't, but crucifying someone for it is even worse then what they did. Just my 2 cents!
Well back to Leeching bye!
I think you're forgetting the part where he is going to do it again and has no intention of admitting it is wrong in any way.
Well, someone better prepare a thread so they can get all the glory! Unless there is actually a REAL purpose of making those threads.
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On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:42 IMABUNNEH wrote:
Apparently having morals, and pursuing your morals to a conclusion, is now looked down on as being self righteous or elitist? YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs! Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". Show nested quote +It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power.
I'm one of those people who actually may stop themselves from purchasing a product for a reason as simple as the company supporting something I don't like, but generally only if there are numerous alternatives available and it's not a real loss for me. This is the case in regards to gaming peripherals.
As for TL forum members having the same power. Once again, that power is dictated by Razor and Quantic. We have the same power as a collective because we are part of the reason Razor is interested in sponsorship. I don't see why such demands are outrageous here, it's not outlandish and it isn't particularly excessive. The viewers were bringing to light something that likely already matched up with Razor's views and opinions.
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On May 05 2012 07:01 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:49 Fliparoni wrote:
The freedom of speech that is protected by laws in this country that allowed Destiny to say those words also allowed people the freedom to go complain to Quantic and Razer. Once again, this is not a freedom of speech issue. Everyone involved was perfectly free to say whatever they wanted to whoever they wanted. Destiny did something stupid and inappropriate, and deserves the reputation that he gets from that. But in my opinion it's far more inappropriate to go to someone's employer and try to get them fired just because you don't like that. This is uncalled for, no matter how unpleasant the person is. And it certainly isn't needed when the person is someone you can easily never see again in your life just by making the choice to not watch his stream anymore.
You're really pulling the "snitches get stitches" defense?
The employer is going to find out one way or another if he's routinely doing this shit, which he does.
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On May 05 2012 07:00 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:55 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 06:53 IcedteaSC2 wrote:
can't wait for SOTG to cover this i only want to hear what they say. these forums are pretty funny though. they had SOTG last night and decided not to cover it. Good. The less drama queening the better, especially from respected members of the community. Leave that shit to people like Slasher, don't drag people like Sean Plott into the mud to talk about his stance on it.
Ya, I agree that it would be a big waste of time. Incontrol would spend 15 mins talking about how people are killing esports by immediately emailing sponsors. Which, true or not, isn't going to change anyone's mind regardless of which side they're on, so it would just get a bunch of people all riled up. Sean's basically already talked about the same thing when Orb happened a while back, about separating private and professional life in the esports scene. But they cover so much drama as of late I'm kind of surprised they didn't XD
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Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO!
It is truly absurd.
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On May 05 2012 06:57 Tehs Tehklz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:
[quote]
YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs! Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power. Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract.
No, but they went to Razer and threatened a boycott or some other PR problems unless they cave into the demands, and they decided it's a battle not worth fighting.
It's pretty fucked up when if you don't like someone, you can go threaten to start problems with their employer unless they fire the guy you don't like, and it works perfectly.
And I simply cannot understand how you are failing to see how much of a dick move if is to do something like this. If someone just doesn't like your attitude and doesn't get along with you, it's OK for them to get you fired? That's an appropriate thing for them to do? That's the way things should work in this world? I don't think so.
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On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd.
Hilarious how that was closed in 2 pages yet here we are with several hundred pages over 3 threads later regarding a similar issue, just a different individual.
I think the mod summed up pretty good at the end of that thread;
"Stop bitching." - Beyonder.
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On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd.
Yea good luck with that.
The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration.
OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it.
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On May 05 2012 06:59 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:58 Stubentiger wrote:On May 05 2012 06:52 Strabismus wrote:
Being brutally honest to the point where you say whatever random rubbish enters your mind at the time isn't a good thing. "Destiny" is incredibly contradictory and antagonistic, and half the stuff he comes out with is to his detriment. Being honest is a good quality; it takes a special someone to turn it into something distasteful, deplorable and embarrassing.
This is a good thing, it'll be a good day for the scene when he's gone completely. Maybe but who else is entertaining to watch? The people who take the game seriously and actually play well? just a thought.
This.
The scene has a wide range of entertaining casters/players/personalities to follow. It shouldn't be too hard to a good number you like and can enjoy.
Destiny's only redeeming factor is that he can sometimes, occasionally, be funny. But then again, so can my dog.
I think a lot of people on the scene have made mistakes in terms of opening their mouth when they shouldn't or offend by accident. It's understandable and often forgiveable. Destiny remains to be one of the few who actually defend these actions as something to be commended and supported, even revered by his hardcore fan-base. And considering he's not even a good player relative to the pro scene, he doesn't deserve the attention he gets.
But people will watch what they want to. Destiny can rattle on about how he loves the hate or whatever, but I don't think anyone hates him, he's not worth that. They're just exasperated and embarrassed for him. I know I am.
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On May 05 2012 07:01 TricksAre4Figs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:00 Cushion wrote:
Reading this thread is bad for my health, but I can't help but to post. Everyone is making this something it isn't. So i've come from just being a forum leech that reads, and never contributes to post at least once in this thread.
I truly don't feel what Destiny did falls under rasism. He just used a word, he didn't spit in the guys face for being from a specific race (which i've actually been a victim of)! What he did was obviously wrong and bad manners, but IMHO not racism.
I don't feel like Destiny should have been kicked out of quantic. I think that's going too far. He should recieve some sort of punishment obviously, but to ruin his career (cause no team is going to pick him up). Is far worse of a crime then what he did.
I can't comment on how he got banned from the TL.net sidebar cause I don't know the full story, but it seems like he did do enough to deserve that one.
I can say I've watched destiny's stream before and I felt it was lacking, and a bit stale. However the time I did watch it he used adult language enough for me not to be surprised by something like this. If I'm not mistaken he did have a langauge advisory stamp in his stream thread. We're all guilty of using words that we shouldn't, but crucifying someone for it is even worse then what they did. Just my 2 cents!
Well back to Leeching bye!
I think you're forgetting the part where he is going to do it again and has no intention of admitting it is wrong in any way.
Which is why what Quantic did is justified. There really is no discussion on Destiny or his situation.....
But Quantic should have never picked up someone that is obviously that way to begin with. I just always thought they were okay with it, and I think Destiny did too. But when babies cry to sponsors, Quantic's hands were tied, and I think Steven understands that.
the discussion should be about people crying to sponsors and how this hurts esports, and the future protocol of what happens when an esports icon (player or caster) uses inflammatory or racially charged language. This is the only valuable conversation. Any conversation about Destiny or whether he's a racist or whether you think the words are fine or not is irrelevant.
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On May 05 2012 07:06 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Hilarious how that was closed in 2 pages yet here we are with several hundred pages over 3 threads later regarding a similar issue, just a different individual. I think the mod summed up pretty good at the end of that thread; "Stop bitching." - Beyonder.
lol. Beyonder is hilarious.
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TL, policing the internet! Having a community that eats its own in the name of esports is just weird. Hopefully the maturing process will let the appropriate people (sponsors and teams themselves) do the punishing in the future.
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On May 05 2012 07:06 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:57 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
[quote]
Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power. Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract. No, but they went to Razer and threatened a boycott or some other PR problems unless they cave into the demands, and they decided it's a battle not worth fighting. It's pretty fucked up when if you don't like someone, you can go threaten to start problems with their employer unless they fire the guy you don't like, and it works perfectly. And I simply cannot understand how you are failing to see how much of a dick move if is to do something like this. If someone just doesn't like your attitude and doesn't get along with you, it's OK for them to get you fired? That's an appropriate thing for them to do? That's the way things should work in this world? I don't think so.
Destiny's behavior is what got him fired.
If you don't think I am very nice and you go to my employer and say "he is big meany, fire him!" they will laugh at you. If I put on my company shirt and record a video of myself doing what the company hired me to do while shouting "gook!" at an Asian person and you show that video to my employer, if and yes you better believe my ass is getting canned.
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On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it.
I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture."
Destiny's team and sponsors knew exactly what kind of language he used on his stream. This was not new, and not surprising. They obviously did not have a problem with it until a few people stirred up trouble with Razer.
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On May 05 2012 07:06 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:57 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
[quote]
Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power. Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract. No, but they went to Razer and threatened a boycott or some other PR problems unless they cave into the demands, and they decided it's a battle not worth fighting. It's pretty fucked up when if you don't like someone, you can go threaten to start problems with their employer unless they fire the guy you don't like, and it works perfectly. And I simply cannot understand how you are failing to see how much of a dick move if is to do something like this. If someone just doesn't like your attitude and doesn't get along with you, it's OK for them to get you fired? That's an appropriate thing for them to do? That's the way things should work in this world? I don't think so.
You've been posting the same thing for 20+ pages already, give it a rest. Unfortunately for whatever dream world you're living in, it might be shattered when you realize that when people who are given a job which involves being a public figure they don't have the freedom to speak however they want and get away with it.
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Well, its a shame that they had to part seeing as I love Quantic, but thats what happens when people bitch to sponsors right away.
On the bright side, Quantic acquired Vile, so theres that.
Good luck to ya Destiny, keep speakin' yer mind.
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On May 05 2012 07:11 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:06 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:57 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:
[quote]
How can you say that?
I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him.
If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics.
Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power. Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract. No, but they went to Razer and threatened a boycott or some other PR problems unless they cave into the demands, and they decided it's a battle not worth fighting. It's pretty fucked up when if you don't like someone, you can go threaten to start problems with their employer unless they fire the guy you don't like, and it works perfectly. And I simply cannot understand how you are failing to see how much of a dick move if is to do something like this. If someone just doesn't like your attitude and doesn't get along with you, it's OK for them to get you fired? That's an appropriate thing for them to do? That's the way things should work in this world? I don't think so. You've been posting the same thing for 20+ pages already, give it a rest. Unfortunately for whatever dream world you're living in, it might be shattered when you realize that when people who are given a job which involves being a public figure they don't have the freedom to speak however they want and get away with it.
lol destiny being a public figure, that might give what he does too much meaning.
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On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture."
Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist.
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On May 05 2012 07:14 Tehs Tehklz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture." Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist.
He posted a lot about it in the first big closed thread. I don't think that was his intent. You should read his posts if you're bored and have time, there were a lot of them =/
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On May 05 2012 07:16 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:14 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture." Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist. He posted a lot about it in the first big closed thread. I don't think that was his intent. You should read his posts if you're bored and have time, there were a lot of them =/
Yea, I'm sure all those times he got angry he meant to just tell the other player to "fuck off" maybe his fingers slipped and he ended up calling them a 'faggot' instead. You make a choice when you decide to take things over the line and beyond where they need to go, destiny is a big boy, he knows perfectly well wtf he is doing.
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EPT
