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Keep this civil, guys |
I feel bad for Quantic more than Destiny. Destiny won't be affected by this at all really, whereas quantic lost the main reason I gave a shit about their existence. Naniwa rarely partakes in their online shit so Destiny was the only reason I followed them.
It's a shame how ridiculously self-important the starcraft community views itself to the point where it literally begins to lambast anyone that doesn't agree with their bullshit understanding of the world.
It's shit like this that makes me stay in the LR threads...
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On May 05 2012 07:18 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:16 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:14 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture." Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist. He posted a lot about it in the first big closed thread. I don't think that was his intent. You should read his posts if you're bored and have time, there were a lot of them =/ Yea, I'm sure all those times he got angry he meant to just tell the other player to "fuck off" maybe his fingers slipped and he ended up calling them a 'faggot' instead. You make a choice when you decide to take things over the line and beyond where they need to go, destiny is a big boy, he knows perfectly well wtf he is doing.
Of course he knows what he is doing. That's a big reason this whole thing got out of control so quickly, is because instead of apologizing he told everyone to fuck off and that he would use whatever kind of language he wanted. I'm not agreeing that what he said was good. But people thinking that anyone who types the word faggot is homophobic or hates homosexuals is just exaggerating. Some people use words like that when they're mad, with no targeted ill intent to the specific group. Should they? No, probably not. But you can't say that everyone who uses such words in anger is racist/homophobic/etc.
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We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread.
I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue.
Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
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On May 05 2012 07:06 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:57 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:55 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:44 Mordiford wrote:On May 05 2012 06:39 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:29 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 06:26 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:
[quote]
Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer? So, someone pointed a gun at Destiny and said "say 'gook' one more time, motherfucker. I dare you!" No, man. They informed him sponsors of his behavior - HIS behavior - and his sponsors apparently voiced their displeasure to his team. If you think asking someone not use racial slurs is the same as forcibly compelling a person to abandon their morals in favor of yours, then I really do not know what to say to you. Sigh... no, a gun was not literally involved. I was using an analogy, please google the term and learn how they are used. They informed the sponsors of Destiny's behavior as a threat, demanding that something be done about it or else financial damage or PR problems would take place. This was done as an attempt to control Destiny's language and actions during his stream, and to punish him if he does not change. They did not ask Destiny to stop making racial slurs (not that he'd listen). They made threats and then had him punished for not conforming to their demands. I do believe that this is a form of compelling someone to follow your moral code instead of their own, and I'm not sure how it can be seen otherwise. The question is, do you find that kind of behavior to be morally acceptable? Personally I find it to be considerably worse than occasionally spewing inappropriate language on the internet. Except these two situations are nothing alike. Your analogy was about equal to: parents are to grounded as Stalin is to gulag. That is type of analogy that you are putting forth and it is nonsense. Erm... actually, the analogy you just made is perfectly legitimate. There is no rule that says analogies must contain situations that have the same "oh shit this is a really serious lifechanging situation" level. All they did was use their own freedom of speech to express that they would not support a company that supports the use of racial slurs. That is not even remotely close to forcing anyone to do anything. "Act how I want, or else I'm going to get you in trouble" is an attempt to force someone to do what you want. It is pure political spin to say "hey I'm just using free speech here" while ignoring the fact that you're using your speech in order to either control or punish things that you disapprove of. You seem to have no interest in actually dealing with the actual points being brought up. What's the course of action if you want to support Quantic and/or Razor but Destiny is the factor that prevents you. I feel like they wouldn't mind knowing, in fact I feel they'd prefer it over a number of people not buying their products when the fix was as simple as dropping/request a drop of a single player. I'll be honest, I don't think there are too many people out there who were about to buy a new Blackwidow or Deathadder but stopped themselves, thinking "ugh I just can't do it, I'd be indirectly supporting some guy who said nigger on the internet". But OK. Supposing this situation exists, it is now a problem that affects you personally, and you have the right to complain. You should direct your complaints to Quantic, expressing how inappropriate Destiny made you feel and that you can't support anything related to him in any way. I suppose you should avoid buying Razer products if that "eww I supported Destiny" feeling is too strong to overcome. If Quantic does nothing about it, then I suppose it would be appropriate to tell Razer how you feel. However, this is not what happened for the majority (if not all) of the people who complained to Razer right away. It was simply a case of "fuck that guy, I'm going to get him in trouble". It's quite simply, "Act how I expect you to act or I won't pay you" from Razor and what the fuck is wrong with that? This is how employment works, this is how sponsorship works. I've said repeatedly that Quantic and Razer have every right to make reasonable requests of Destiny and terminate their deal if he refuses. But random TL forum members should have not have this same power. Ayo, no shit, bro. Guess who terminated the deal with Destiny? A band of wild nerds certainly did not break into Razor headquarters and tear up the contract. No, but they went to Razer and threatened a boycott or some other PR problems unless they cave into the demands, and they decided it's a battle not worth fighting. It's pretty fucked up when if you don't like someone, you can go threaten to start problems with their employer unless they fire the guy you don't like, and it works perfectly. And I simply cannot understand how you are failing to see how much of a dick move if is to do something like this. If someone just doesn't like your attitude and doesn't get along with you, it's OK for them to get you fired? That's an appropriate thing for them to do? That's the way things should work in this world? I don't think so.
You realize you can't just get anyone's sponsorship dropped just because you don't like them, right?
If me and some other people decided to try and stir up a shit storm to get Mouz or Mouz's sponsors to drop Thorzain(just an example, I love Thorzain) then you'd have a hard fucking time because the guy is pretty clean. Destiny's behavior left him susceptible to action like this. They aren't going do something unless someone's actions are actually questionable.
If Razor was fine with being associated with someone who uses slurs in front of thousands of viewers, they wouldn't have made a big deal out of those emails. They likely weighed their options and figured it wasn't worth it to continue support. It's ultimately Destiny's behavior that cost him the position and he seems fine with that to be honest.
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On May 05 2012 07:19 Megabuster123 wrote:
I feel bad for Quantic more than Destiny. Destiny won't be affected by this at all really, whereas quantic lost the main reason I gave a shit about their existence. Naniwa rarely partakes in their online shit so Destiny was the only reason I followed them.
It's a shame how ridiculously self-important the starcraft community views itself to the point where it literally begins to lambast anyone that doesn't agree with their bullshit understanding of the world.
It's shit like this that makes me stay in the LR threads...
Not tolerating hate mongering bigots is bullshit?
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I just have a very difficult time understanding how people can think that actively trying to destroy another person's income, knowing full well that it potentially jeopardizes other innocent people's income as well is not infinitely more reprehensible and destructive than calling a person a mean name.
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On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language?
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On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language?
Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc.
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On May 05 2012 07:16 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:14 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture." Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist. He posted a lot about it in the first big closed thread. I don't think that was his intent. You should read his posts if you're bored and have time, there were a lot of them =/
I am arguing about racism on the internet. I think it is safe to say I have time for just about anything, at this point. However, I can tell you right now that I will not buy whatever nonsense argument that guy tries to use to justify his racists ass behavior.
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Im starting to really hate the SC2 community
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On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today.
This post sums up my feelings perfectly.
I'd also like to point out how video gaming culture is something that has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People like Destiny have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk.
Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted.
For those who defend Destiny and think that kind of behavior is acceptable let me ask you. When an Asian guy cuts you off in a line at the grocery store that might make you angry. When an Asian player cheeses you out on the ladder and laughed at you while you were losing that also might make you angry. What are you going to do in each scenario? If you're not handling the situations in the exact same way then any argument about "sticking up for what you believe in" is not very credible.
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On May 05 2012 07:27 Tehs Tehklz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:16 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:14 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 07:11 MercilessMonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 07:07 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 07:03 KaiserJohan wrote:Pitchforks ready, phalanx formation, LETS GO! It is truly absurd. Yea good luck with that. The problem with people like you is that you draw no distinction between saying something like "whats up bitches" and someone maliciously throwing racial slurs directly at another person in a fit of frustration. OMG.tv's sponsors know exactly what kind of language DJ wheat and friends use on their shows and are (obviously) not deterred by it. I think that's the whole point, is that Destiny was not being maliciously racist. He was angry, but any word he happened to chose would have had the same meaning. I think that most everyone would agree that the point of what he was saying was "fuck you" rather than "purposeful, and malicious, racist hatred toward your culture." Buuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllshit he wasn't. Racial slurs are called racial slurs for a reason. Because they are racist. Destiny knew what it meant and he assumed that they guy was Asian and he used the slur in order to be racist. He posted a lot about it in the first big closed thread. I don't think that was his intent. You should read his posts if you're bored and have time, there were a lot of them =/ I am arguing about racism on the internet. I think it is safe to say I have time for just about anything, at this point.
Haha well said 
On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc.
So many people throw faggot around all the time, I feel like it's the second most common anger word besides fuck. That doesn't make it right or mean people should say it or anything, but I imagine some of the people with their faux outrage towards anyone who has ever used a bad word ever have used it themselves in that past 
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so he says insulting things and refuses to apologize about it? He has got a lot of growing up to do.
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On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc.
You do realize that DJwheat nor any of his other hosts ever say shit like this on any of their OMGtv broadcasts right?
You dont do your side any favors by playing an ignorant fool and spouting nonsense.
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On May 05 2012 07:31 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today. This post sums up my feelings perfectly. I'd also like to point out how video gaming culture is something that has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People like Destiny have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk. Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. For those who defend Destiny and think that kind of behavior is acceptable let me ask you. When an Asian guy cuts you off in a line at the grocery store that might make you angry. When an Asian player cheeses you out on the ladder and laughed at you while you were losing that also might make you angry. What are you going to do in each scenario? If you're not handling the situations in the exact same way then any argument about "sticking up for what you believe in" is not very credible.
I love you both.
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On May 05 2012 07:31 BuddhaMonk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:09 BroOd wrote:
Reading some of these posts feels like having a thumb pressed into my eye. So many bizarre tirades about cultural implications, word meanings, destiny's intent, society's prudeness, and any other conceivable way you could imagine to spin this into something that misses the point.
Everything about this situation was summed up, for me, in that telling screen shot. Destiny was angry and frustrated that he lost to what he felt was inferior play, and as a punishment or retaliation for that, he had to make the other person feel that same anger and frustration. So, he reached for what he thought of first -- an Asian slur for someone with an Asian screen name -- in the hope that it would in some way hurt his opponent.
Now, Destiny may not hate Asian people, or even dislike them. But when you use loaded, historically racist words, soaked in years of shit, you can't hang them out on the line and expect everyone to be fine with the smell. Those words have hurt people in the past and continue to hurt people today. Pretending that using them casually (like when you want to anger an anonymous Asian person so you call him a "gook") somehow dilutes their power makes it seem like you're drawing your philosophy from a half-understood George Carlin bit, and not from the pragmatic, real world we all live in together.
This hallmark-card notion of "things can only hurt you if you let them" is ludicrous and everyone here has first hand evidence of that. We've all been irrationally mad before. We all have emotional buttons that someone, somewhere, could push and hurt us. Some of those buttons are personal and hidden deep inside, but some of them are worn on our sleeves, or even deeper, in our skin. It's clear that some people in this thread view that very real hurt as just collateral damage in their self-righteous war on the windmills of political correctness.
Destiny isn't tearing down any walls here. We're not advancing towards a new, more enlightened stance on race issues by integrating institutionalized racist terms into our every day vocabulary. We're just constantly reminding each other of how shitty we used to be, and how shitty we can still be today. This post sums up my feelings perfectly. I'd also like to point out how video gaming culture is something that has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People like Destiny have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk. Contrast that with the online competitive environment and there's literally no consequences for talking shit non-stop. This leads to an atmosphere where everyone is just constantly talking shit because it's the only tool they can use to strike back at others after being insulted. For those who defend Destiny and think that kind of behavior is acceptable let me ask you. When an Asian guy cuts you off in a line at the grocery store that might make you angry. When an Asian player cheeses you out on the ladder and laughed at you while you were losing that also might make you angry. What are you going to do in each scenario? If you're not handling the situations in the exact same way then any argument about "sticking up for what you believe in" is not very credible.
Oh god. EXACTLY. Destiny would never use the kind of charged language he uses online, to someone's face. I met him in person, he's a tiny dude. He would be afraid of getting his ass handed to him.
He might not be a polite gentleman in real life, but he would never call an asian he didn't know well a gook to his face.
Point is, this is a problem unique to competitive anonymous online interaction. So it is a unique discussion and it's hard to draw parallels to another sport or scenario.
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destinys biggest mistake is not caring about his viewers, he simply didn't give a shit about anything, he just kept playing game after game spamming 5 commercials every time and not expecting anything bad to happen
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On May 05 2012 07:31 BuddhaMonk wrote:
This post sums up my feelings perfectly.
I'd also like to point out how video gaming culture is something that has evolved within the sphere of anonymous internet communication. People like Destiny have grown up interacting with others, in a competitive environment, while being able to be totally anonymous. Compare this to your average sport like a basketball or football where the same competitive environment exists and but you are not anonymous. In both cases people get understandably emotionally charged, yet in the non-anonymous real world when you insult someone there's a very good chance that you'll face physical consequences for your insult from the person you insulted. This means you will learn to be more careful about what kind of shit you talk.
You can't really say that Steven Bonnell II living now in Virginia I think is totally anonymous Mr. BuddhaMonk 
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On May 05 2012 07:34 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 07:26 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 07:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 07:22 StarStrider wrote:We should have another TL poll like the one in "DJ Wheat saying Bitches" thread. I'm interested in just how many people there are on each side of this issue. + Show Spoiler +Poll: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense?It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea (64) 43% Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene. (51) 34% Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning) (18) 12% Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended. (14) 9% Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter. (2) 1% 149 total votes Your vote: Is offensive/racial language a teamkick / TL-ban-worthy offense? (Vote): Yes. Get that out of my esports. It is a blight to the professionalism of the scene.
(Vote): Only if sponsors are on the line. Otherwise it doesn't matter.
(Vote): Only if he refuses to apologize and refrain from it in the future. (Warning)
(Vote): It doesn't matter, it's not a big deal, people should just get over it and stop watching his strea
(Vote): Language is what you make it. I should be able to say anything without you getting offended.
what is offensive/racial language? Cunt, Nigger, Kike, Faggot, etc. You do realize that DJwheat nor any of his other hosts ever say shit like this on any of their OMGtv broadcasts right? You dont do your side any favors by playing an ignorant fool and spouting nonsense.
Ummmm.....what?
Please re-read then apologize to me.
I'm not on a side in this debate. I'm interested in how many are on each side, that's all.
These were examples of offensive language, not examples of words any hosts ever used. Where did you get that? LAWL
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Has it occurred to anyone that his dismissal from Quantic was less about his usage of the words he used, but more about his subsequent defiant insistence that he had done nothing wrong? Not that I necessarily agree with the "community," but if Destiny had simply apologized and said he was wrong, it might have ended at that. I can't speak for the mods, of course, but it seems like he wouldn't have even been banned from TL at that point.
He claims the apology would have been disingenuous, but all that means is that he's not sorry and that he doesn't believe he did anything worthy of an apology. The totality of Destiny's point apparently was that he has free speech, and therefore he can say what he wants and doesn't need to care what the community thinks about it. Cool. If he's gonna blaze his own trail and thumb his nose at the community, however, then noone is to blame but him if the community turns around and rejects him. Not the community, not TL, not the mods, not Quantic, just him.
He dug his own grave with a smile on his face. Hope he's still smiling when he has to lay down in it.
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EPT
