EPTSeriously, Starcraft 2 is fucked up, like when I was in silver it was throwing me against Plats and I was beating those. But did it move me up a league? Fuck no. Stupid.
Season 7 Matchmaking Debunk - Page 5
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wladis
1 Post
Seriously, Starcraft 2 is fucked up, like when I was in silver it was throwing me against Plats and I was beating those. But did it move me up a league? Fuck no. Stupid. | ||
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Mendelfist
Sweden356 Posts
On April 11 2012 23:27 OrbitalPlane wrote: Edit: @Mendelfist, this is true based on my experience and it kinda makes sense as well. Maybe you can find proof here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273 The poster I answered said that if you are improving you will get matched against people with higher MMR than your own. Since you can't see you own MMR I don't know how this can be your "experience". No, it doesn't make a bit sense. Yes, I have read all the ladder guides. | ||
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
You can't proof that for sure with the MMR because nobody knows how it is calculated. Every time i am on a winning streak my opponents get slighly favourite or favourite. If that's the case because my MMR has increased faster than my points (that's what i guess) or if i get faced against people with higher MMR we don't know. | ||
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Mendelfist
Sweden356 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:54 OrbitalPlane wrote: If you win a lot you will face better players, if you loose a lot of games you will face worse players. Thats like the core of the ladder system. You can't proof that for sure with the MMR because nobody knows how it is calculated. Every time i am on a winning streak my opponents get slighly favourite or favourite. If that's the case because my MMR has increased faster than my points (that's what i guess) or if i get faced against people with higher MMR we don't know. That you face better players when you win is not the question. The question is if you are matched up against people with higher MMR than your own, ie the system creates matches that it thinks are uneven to as Najda said "find where you belong". THAT part doesn't make sense, and there is absolutely nothing in the current knowledge about the system that points to this. And to give you another data point, when I go on winning streaks I experience the opposite of what you do, ie I get more favored, not my opponent. I have a nice graph here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273¤tpage=49 So, unless you think that I get worse opponents when I win, this proves that the change in the favored status is a result of the volatility of points, not any change in MMR vs opponents MMR. Points can move fast if you have few games played, or slow if you have many games played. | ||
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StarGalaxy
Germany744 Posts
I actually think it is the other way around. Every time your opponents get favored you will loose more. quotes from Excalibur_Z guide: Your points will drift toward your hidden MMR over a period of time, ... MMR is more volatile than points. | ||
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
On April 11 2012 17:09 SupLilSon wrote: That's not a 60% win ratio.. It's 37.5% win ratio... that is pretty bad... 6 wins/10 losses. 6wins/16 total games. 6w 10l is not bad by any means... that's such a small sample size. If by the end of the a season of 100-200 games the percent was the same, I'd be more concerned. This is the reason we can't see our losses anymore... people can't accept defeat. There has to be something wrong with the system, it's not them. This guy didn't just have an off day, or some bad games... no, it's the system that is broken. I guarantee you he wouldn't be on these forums complaining if he had 10 wins 6 losses. I don't even know why I read these kinds of threads... it's just frustrating realizing so many people lack basic logic. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
The new system is very bad. I shouldn't be matched with those noobs. I didn't have to play with them before the new season. Edit: this too http://prikachi.com/images/240/4635240y.jpg | ||
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clever_us
United States329 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:37 darkness wrote: http://prikachi.com/images/189/4635189i.jpg The new system is very bad. I shouldn't be matched with those noobs. I didn't have to play with them before the new season. Team games have notoriously wacky matchmaking anyway. I doubt this is a result of the new system. A lot of the time the difference between a gold team and a masters team is having a coherent strategy (read: all in), so there are a lot of teams in team games with deceptively low ranks but high MMRs | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
I'm currently rank 1 master on EU. Played my placement match and went back into M division (I was GM last season). Played 15 games so far , 3 low masters players and the rest high diamond? I have not played anyone my skill level yet. But even weirder, the matchmaker says all games are favoured. I now have a 20-0 win steak... | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On April 11 2012 21:37 EnderSword wrote: I guess i keep reading everything 'correcting' my statement on point #3 and I don't see the difference in what I'm saying and what you're saying. At no point in #3 do i even mention favoured or not, and I explicitly say prior to that, of course favoured does not mean better. I also don't mean an offset in terms of raw wins, but an offset in points. favoured certainly doesn't mean 0-4 vs 20-24 for most people. There's not only not an assumption that it mimics ELO, but the absolute ruling out of the idea that it mimics ELO, it wouldn't behave like that whatsoever if it mimiced an ELO system. asfkdlkdsglsd do you even know what you wrote in point #3? People have even highlighted specific lines and elaborated why those sentences are wrong. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:48 malaan wrote: Ok, seriously confused with this - I'm currently rank 1 master on EU. Played my placement match and went back into M division (I was GM last season). Played 15 games so far , 3 low masters players and the rest high diamond? I have not played anyone my skill level yet. But even weirder, the matchmaker says all games are favoured. I now have a 20-0 win steak... That you're playing a lot more games against lower-level players is something one would expect based on a broader range to match against. There are very few rank 1 master players and lots of low master players and diamond players, so it finds them quickly. The reason all your games show up as favored (sorry -- can't shake that American spelling) is that having a relatively high MMR means you have a long way to go until your adjusted points match that high MMR, so you get tons of extra points per game until you get there, whether your opponent is way below you in MMR or not. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 12 2012 06:04 OrbitalPlane wrote: You said in that post: "every time I start to lose more than I win my opponents get more and more favored". I actually think it is the other way around. Every time your opponents get favored you will loose more. quotes from Excalibur_Z guide: Your points will drift toward your hidden MMR over a period of time, ... MMR is more volatile than points. That's not what that quote means. The reason that losing streaks late in a season often result in opponents being favored after a while is that it appears that you'll lose points faster than MMR, at least at first, so since your points wind up artificially low compared to your MMR, you'll be awarded more points per win for a while. (That's what the "favored" indication means.) On average, even with the changes, you'll still be matched against players the system believes have a 50% chance to beat you, if it can find them (and lack of those players hitting the button is why people like Nerchio talk about playing Diamond league players.) | ||
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ishyishy
United States826 Posts
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
On April 12 2012 07:42 clever_us wrote: Team games have notoriously wacky matchmaking anyway. I doubt this is a result of the new system. A lot of the time the difference between a gold team and a masters team is having a coherent strategy (read: all in), so there are a lot of teams in team games with deceptively low ranks but high MMRs You obviously have not played many team games in your SC2 career... I also had several score screens that looked similar to that yesterday, never had them before the start of this season. Being in master league, I would usually get a mix of masters and diamonds, maybe an occasional high rank/mmr plat. But two random plats AND two random golds placed in my game one after another? Never before - definitely a result of the new system. Took me a while to work my way up to masters in random 4's, and I enjoy much more having teammates as well as opponents that are at my level, now I have to deal with filth again as if I'm working my way up from gold. 5-0 so far though, and that's just playing on my own... playing alongside my master league friends will be an absolute slaughter. Would much prefer to have some better competetion on a consistent basis... smashing noobs is not very satisfying/fulfilling. Edit: I guess that is just from my perspective though... from the gold players persepective who is now all of a sudden getting diamond and master leaguers in their game, this may be the first chance they've ever gotten to play with/against some better players - should be a nice change for them and a good opportunity to improve. | ||
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Wrathsc2
United States2025 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:17 ishyishy wrote: I think that everyone just needs to stfu about MMR and just play the damn game lol. this. The MMR is practically the only thing blizzard got right with bnet2.0, its the only thing i trust them with, so i accept the changes and play ladder either way. If i beat ez people so be it. If i face higher skill opponents....so be it. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 12 2012 04:11 wladis wrote: This is a pretty stupid post. The placing IS broken. I can provide you with screenshots that I was in Silver and winning EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Literally, every single one. I did my division placement thing, oh look at that, I'm in bronze now. Did 3 matches in a row, won them all. Seriously, Starcraft 2 is fucked up, like when I was in silver it was throwing me against Plats and I was beating those. But did it move me up a league? Fuck no. Stupid. If that's actually happening to you, then yes, that's likely broken somehow. It's not a common thing, though. You might want to post about it in the bug report forum on the battle.net SC2 forums. Bring your screenshots and be nicer about it though. | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:22 rhs408 wrote: I enjoy much more having teammates as well as opponents that are at my level, now I have to deal with filth again as if I'm working my way up from gold. Man, I know that this change is likely to have a bigger impact in 3s and 4s, but I don't think you have to refer to gold and plat players as "filth" to get your point across. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:30 Lysenko wrote: Man, I know that this change is likely to have a bigger impact in 3s and 4s, but I don't think you have to refer to gold and plat players as "filth" to get your point across. I agree, bad choice of words. Glad you got my point though  | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:32 rhs408 wrote: I agree, bad choice of words. Glad you got my point though No problem. I think what's going on here is that the matchmaking system probably has some single factor that's tied to desired wait time for a game, and they implemented wider matchmaking by reducing the desired wait time. I remember them fiddling with this a bunch in Beta and letting people know that wait times would be somewhat longer or whatever after certain patches. Of course, in 3s and 4s, the pool of players is small enough that enough of a reduction in target wait time might have a huge impact on team composition. Might be worth posting your experience as feedback on the battle.net forums, because they did make clear they were treating this as a little bit of an experiment, and maybe it can be improved by tightening up the tolerance on the larger game sizes. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
1v1 matchmaking seems a bit off too, but nowhere near as broken as team. | ||
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