|
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett.
|
On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett.
Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point.
|
On April 10 2012 09:08 Tenmagnet wrote:
There is just a huge cultural difference between the West and Korea, especially when it come to Esports and Starcraft.
For instance, in Korea, if you're a pro gamer, you're a celebrity. Aspiring to becoming a pro gamer is like trying to become a star in the NBA, an actor, entertainer, etc. An example is Boxer, pretty much everyone in Korea knows who he is, hes dating an actress, and pretty much living the sweet life because of his success.
There are several other factors on why Starcraft is so popular over there. Its just unfortunate that Esports in general is not that popular to the average person in the West since there's a greater stigma on gaming and there are just too many other forms of entertainment that appeal more to the public.
This is wrong.
|
Success should be rewarded, not punished. I consider myself patriotic, and find myself rooting for Americans (Idra and Sheth) whenever they play for it. I do not however want the competition of tournaments to fall, and that is exactly what would happen if we restrict Koreans from playing. Foreigners should earn their victories, and when they do it will be all the better. Meanwhile I will enjoy watching MKP, Parting, DRG, Alive, Nestea, and Squirtle tear up everything.
|
On April 10 2012 09:05 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:03 SupLilSon wrote:On April 10 2012 08:43 Ryze wrote:On April 10 2012 08:37 SupLilSon wrote:On April 10 2012 08:33 Ryze wrote:On April 10 2012 08:27 svi wrote:
why would anyone care about foreigners doing well in a tournament with minimal koreans?
should we boot koreans out of mlg so incontrol can get top 4 again? everyone would realize that the competition is a joke, and winning the tournament still makes you bad.
at least with koreans, people like scarlett are being recognized even if they don't get top 32. I think you need to re-read my post, I said excluding the Koreans from MLG is NOT the solution Also even if scarlet's name is now recognized, she still went home with 0 dollars. At the end of the day how long can someone justify not making any money while spending just as much time on this as they would working a full time job LOL Scarlett wasn't even a pro and she outperformed most of the foreign "pros". If foreign teams don't have money to support their players, or just spend it on Korean players instead of supporting their foreign players, as you are suggesting, that is an entirely different problem that the OP plan does nothing to help. I haven't said anything about foreign teams supporting Koreans over their players I don't know why you keep mentioning that. Then what was your point? How many sc2 pros have a part time job on the side? Quite a lot if you count coaching/casting/streaming as a separate activity from actually playing the game fulltime with high-quality practice partners a la Korean prohouses.
Zenex players have to pay to live in their team house. If teams don't have the money to support their players, thats on them and maybe they shouldn't be a team or need to reassess their spending/allocation of money.
|
On April 10 2012 09:10 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett. Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point.
Will be picked up by top level pro team.
|
Why the fuck do people hate on Koreans winning everything? Because they're better, we should not let them play? Yes, that's fair. That's good for e-sports. People want the best players, since they make the best games.
The foreigners have all the chances the Koreans do...they just do nothing with it. I hate the be that guy, but it seems a vast majority of the Europeans are the ones who are unhappy about Korean dominance.
|
On April 10 2012 09:00 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 08:56 Djin)ftw( wrote:On April 10 2012 08:48 svi wrote:On April 10 2012 08:43 SilentSC2 wrote:On April 10 2012 08:29 SupLilSon wrote:On April 10 2012 08:24 FairForever wrote:On April 10 2012 08:19 SupLilSon wrote:On April 10 2012 08:12 Wombat_NI wrote:On April 10 2012 08:06 SupLilSon wrote:On April 10 2012 07:59 KaptenCulpa wrote:
[quote]
Did you read my thread. In my suggestion I hinted that I a least thought that having more then half of the final 20 from one country would be too much to be good for the sport. This would more then make room for the korean top players, but not the whole top 20 of them.
I have no hate against Koreans or anyone in the SC2 world, i simply dont have that much feelings about SC2 and its comunity to hate anyone. I argue for what I think would be best for Starcraft 2 as an e-sport. The things i prupose is commonplace in the world of sports, the olympics for one have limits on countries. The FIfa world cup have reginal qualifiers wich are far more difficult in for example europe then on many other continents. I am not talking about anything that isent sommonplace in the rest of the sportsworld.
And people are asking how your suggestion is better for "E-Sports" than Korean domination? You would lessen the competition. As other people have suggested, let's remove Black people from NBA, remove Canadians and Russians from Hockey, Dominicans from Baseball, and Europeans from Football/Soccer... Really? They have Football/soccer league in the USA called the MLS, it stands for Major League Soccer. No one watches it. You know why? Because if you watch European Football you get to watch a the sport as such a higher level that it really isn't the same game anymore. It's a false comparison though. For a start with professional sports, the financial payoffs for even the average pro in the States are well worth the level of sacrifice required, if you're on that level it is much less of a risk. In addition there is a safety net of sorts for those who get college athletic scholarships, i.e they don't have to sacrifice their education to pursue their dream, if they don't quite make it they still get a bit of a leg up in the job market. Starcraft isn't comparable in the West at all, although the infrastructure is getting better in that regard. Not sure how to fix it really, the problem is that the system isn't really meritocratic with regards to how the money is spread around. There are players who are financially a lot better off than others with much more ability and drive because they are personalities, or they were in the right place in the right time. For somebody coming in now it's not an attractive career choice, compete to become some kind of hybrid player/entertainment personality, or try to compete against Koreans and their well-established infrastructure which (in addition to a solid work ethic) aids them immensely in actually winning things. I don't understand where the comparison fails. I am really struggling to see your point, and I don't mean to be rude. The fact is, there's more than enough money in the Foreign scene to support a number of pros, team house, all expenses, I mean there's already a number of Foreign pro houses where all players do is sit and play SC2. The thing is, these teams with all the money are deciding to just buy Korean players because they are actually just better than any of the foreign players. No there aren't. The one successful one I can think of is the EG Lair. Other ones from "established" teams such as RGN have died off. It's not a profitable enterprise, cost of living is high, etc. Teams and competitions should do what's in their best interest, which is to hire/bring Koreans. But that is going to lead to the death of the foreign scene. Really?? There are a bunch of SC2 houses in Europe. A relatively unknown team Dust recently had a post saying they had a team house... Complexity could have used all the money they spend buying Nada, Killer, Heart, Ganzi to build a fucking team house... but they didn't. And really I as well as many others don't care about the "foreign scene". If it dies, it wasn't meant to be. It wasn't because there were too many Koreans. If it dies I will still be able to play SC2. If it dies I will still be able to watch Koreans, the players I actually wanted to watch in the first place. I don't even think foreign teams want to have team houses in the first place because of the chance of failure(RGN is one that comes to mind). That's why they want to sign Korean players because they have the better chance of improving and winning(this is more to Complexity then other teams). On-topic, Koreans are dominate because they practice harder than foreigners. Simple as that, and it's not a problem. if you look at some foreigner teamhouses (EG), you'll see what a joke it is. players like incontrol can't even beat players who don't play full time, despite being in a gaming house for over half a year. gathering a bunch of trash players won't make them good, and foreign managers understand that. That is of also a factor. Players like Incontrol, Hayder (Haypro), Jinro may have been strong BroodWar players. A-, maybe even A or A+. But that means there were still a lot of Korean B-teamers/practise partners better than them. So you've got mediocre players who train hard but are just limited skillwise. i think Huk is a great exmaple of what it takes to be able to compete with Koreans, talent (top 3 Control) and dedication. Unless you think Koreans are just naturally genetically better at the game, there are a whole crapload of potential foreigners out there who could be as good if not better. The infrastructure just isn't in place for them to succeed.
I agree 100%, that's exactly what I posted before.
Still, you can't deny the fact that a lot of foreigner are just mediocre and it might be better to kick people like Hayder (no offense, I admire his dedication, but he is 28 now and.. yeah well. You get my point) or Incontrol and offer the spots to people who are more talented €: or more dedicated
|
On April 10 2012 09:11 Kraznaya wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:10 FairForever wrote:On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett. Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point. Will be picked up by top level pro team.
And will still be making close to nil dollars.
|
By the way, I highly appreciate the opportunity to meet as many top level professionals as possible of a sport I love close to home. IPL4 allowed me to do that.
|
I think what people are really complaining about is that the Korean players need to have more personality and better distinguish themselves in the community.
Complaining about a lack of "home team" winners is a stupid complaint. Most sports have a few champion teams and plenty of crap teams. The most popular players in any sport are the most skilled players or those on the best teams.
To say people won't like StarCraft 2 because these faceless, nameless Koreans keep winning is dismissive and actually kind of racist. But I think the solution is to put these Koreans more to the forefront and make them better known to the community. I think foreigners are much better about doing interviews and putting themselves out there.
|
On April 10 2012 09:12 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:11 Kraznaya wrote:On April 10 2012 09:10 FairForever wrote:On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett. Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point. Will be picked up by top level pro team. And will still be making close to nil dollars.
Okay...? How is that different from how any Korean progamer started?
|
Is this a joke topic? Why do people always insist on making topics like this?
Here is the solution, if you want to win, get good.
How is this topic not locked -_-;;;
|
On April 10 2012 09:12 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:11 Kraznaya wrote:On April 10 2012 09:10 FairForever wrote:On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett. Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point. Will be picked up by top level pro team. And will still be making close to nil dollars.
And will be known more than you ever would be, and has lived to their dream of becoming a pro gamer.
Who's really fucked there? Def not scarlett.
|
On April 10 2012 09:10 1sz2sz3sz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:08 Tenmagnet wrote:
There is just a huge cultural difference between the West and Korea, especially when it come to Esports and Starcraft.
For instance, in Korea, if you're a pro gamer, you're a celebrity. Aspiring to becoming a pro gamer is like trying to become a star in the NBA, an actor, entertainer, etc. An example is Boxer, pretty much everyone in Korea knows who he is, hes dating an actress, and pretty much living the sweet life because of his success.
There are several other factors on why Starcraft is so popular over there. Its just unfortunate that Esports in general is not that popular to the average person in the West since there's a greater stigma on gaming and there are just too many other forms of entertainment that appeal more to the public. This is wrong.
I taught English in Korea and when I ask kids what they want to be when they grow up, guess what they say? They wanna be the new Flash and Jaedong, so how am I wrong?
|
This conversation is really interesting to me with the number of people saying that the non-Korean players will likely die out in a few years. I see it as just the opposite.
Esports and SC in generally have been accepted sports and professions in Korea for a long time. The Korean culture supports the players and holds them in high esteem. There's tons of support. Outside of Korea, that's largely not been the case. Esports to a large degree is still in its infancy here in the United States and I suspect the same is true elsewhere as well. As our respective countries begin to involve themselves more and more into Esports, our cultures should take more of the form of Korea (in terms of more of the populace thinking of SC2 pro players as respectible and people to be admired). More and more people will watch. More and more people will begin to accept Esports. As that happens, I feel we'll have more players striving to be the best and doing whatever they can to achieve that.
All of that combined with the amount of positive reinforcement I foresee, circa Korea, should actually lead to the advancement of non-Korean SC2 pros, not the extinction thereof.
|
So let me get this correctly, people like FairForever like watching foreigners more than Koreans, so they generalize this across to those of us (seems like the MAJORITY) who just watch for the skill of the game involved and say ESPORTS WILL DIE GUIZZZZZ! when we say foreigners should just get better because we want to watch the best games possible. This leads to more whining when the best solution is honestly just get better and practice more? Right...
Foreigners suck guys. Read the old Rekrul threads. They're still true. They just need to get better. Huk, Stephano, Naniwa, etc. have shown they can compete with the best. Just practice more.
|
On April 10 2012 09:12 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2012 09:11 Kraznaya wrote:On April 10 2012 09:10 FairForever wrote:On April 10 2012 09:09 Kraznaya wrote:
If you have the talent, you'll shine through. Just look at Scarlett. Made 0 dollars. Don't see your point. Will be picked up by top level pro team. And will still be making close to nil dollars.
And will be sitting on her ass playing SC2 all day. If people have the illusion of Korean pros living like kings with all their tournament earnings, get real. If you want to go pro at a video game you are accepting that it's not a particularly lucrative profession. If money is what you care about, get a fucking education and a job and play SC2 on your free time. I really really don't see where you are coming from.
|
The Koreans need to be marketed properly in the U.S.A like Hulk Hogan, we'd all love to see scarlett tearing off her tanktop ')
|
If the scene never reaches the heights people want it to because of Korean dominance I won't care. I'll be here with the rest of the hardcore fans watching the best games and cheering on my favorite players regardless of which country they come from, just like Brood War.
Foreigners need to stop being lazy and get better if they want to win tournaments. ( example: Incontrol took a 2 month break during the winter holidays and apparently didn't play any games, you call yourself a professional? )
If not that's fine too, I'll just watch the Korean players instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
