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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 01:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012So according to the witness Martin did in fact attack Zimmerman. This being after Zimmerman refused to stop following him and probably provoked the attack. What a clusterfuck all around. He's admitting to the fact that he shot dead a 17-year old boy and simply because he said it was out of self-defense that's good enough? This doesn't add up. According to police Zimmerman was bloodied and had injuries, presumably from Martin. That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion.
God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about?
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There is no semantics at play at all.. A kid walked to the stor with his hoodie up because IT WAS RAINING. then a RACIST neirhborhood watch guy shot him... End of story. If the guy doesnt get arrested a rodney king riot is totally justified
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On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 01:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012So according to the witness Martin did in fact attack Zimmerman. This being after Zimmerman refused to stop following him and probably provoked the attack. What a clusterfuck all around. He's admitting to the fact that he shot dead a 17-year old boy and simply because he said it was out of self-defense that's good enough? This doesn't add up. According to police Zimmerman was bloodied and had injuries, presumably from Martin. That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about?
Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo.
Edit: also the 911 operator isn't a cop, people keep mixing that up so just saying.^^
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On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 01:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012So according to the witness Martin did in fact attack Zimmerman. This being after Zimmerman refused to stop following him and probably provoked the attack. What a clusterfuck all around. He's admitting to the fact that he shot dead a 17-year old boy and simply because he said it was out of self-defense that's good enough? This doesn't add up. According to police Zimmerman was bloodied and had injuries, presumably from Martin. That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo.
Again it was 46 calls in 11 years.
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On March 25 2012 02:30 Jepsyn wrote:
There is no semantics at play at all.. A kid walked to the stor with his hoodie up because IT WAS RAINING. then a RACIST neirhborhood watch guy shot him... End of story. If the guy doesnt get arrested a rodney king riot is totally justified
You shouldn't joke about the LA riots, especially if you are old enough to remember them. That being said, I also think the wording is just semantics, the meaning behind the words was the same, whether it was a direct order or not, but that's not the main issue of this case, there are so many other aspects that are more important.
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On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 01:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012So according to the witness Martin did in fact attack Zimmerman. This being after Zimmerman refused to stop following him and probably provoked the attack. What a clusterfuck all around. He's admitting to the fact that he shot dead a 17-year old boy and simply because he said it was out of self-defense that's good enough? This doesn't add up. According to police Zimmerman was bloodied and had injuries, presumably from Martin. That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years.
Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-year
But others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high.
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On March 25 2012 02:36 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:30 Jepsyn wrote:
There is no semantics at play at all.. A kid walked to the stor with his hoodie up because IT WAS RAINING. then a RACIST neirhborhood watch guy shot him... End of story. If the guy doesnt get arrested a rodney king riot is totally justified You shouldn't joke about the LA riots, especially if you are old enough to remember them. That being said, I also think the wording is just semantics, the meaning behind the words was the same, whether it was a direct order or not, but that's not the main issue of this case, there are so many other aspects that are more important.
+1
I am also pretty astonished how I am fitting into the "let´s try to find an excuse for Mr. Zimmerman" category with my posts in this thread...
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On March 25 2012 02:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:21 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:20 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 01:24 DeepElemBlues wrote:http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012So according to the witness Martin did in fact attack Zimmerman. This being after Zimmerman refused to stop following him and probably provoked the attack. What a clusterfuck all around. He's admitting to the fact that he shot dead a 17-year old boy and simply because he said it was out of self-defense that's good enough? This doesn't add up. According to police Zimmerman was bloodied and had injuries, presumably from Martin. That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. That's your opinion. No. Not my opinion. The result of reading the police Q&A on the matter. Cite and insert the quote pls
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you
following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.
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On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect.
Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder.
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On March 22 2012 09:10 erin[go]bragh wrote:
I don't get it. He followed the kid, he admitted to it on a recorded phone call, he initiated the confrontation.
How could that possibly be protected under law? Its called "Stand Your Ground" not "Seek and Destroy."
A correct interpretation of the LAW. A good law that allows you to not be walked all over by criminals. We should be law abiding citizens with rights to stand up to evil NOT cowboys looking for a fight just because "these guys always get away."
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On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high.
I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line.
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On March 25 2012 02:40 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 02:21 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:20 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter. What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. That's your opinion. No. Not my opinion. The result of reading the police Q&A on the matter. Cite and insert the quote pls http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdfIf Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be considered in this investigation? Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.
Add to the equation that in the sanford police department some heads started rolling because of possible cover ups - maybe this potentially invalidates his statement or at least let´s them be seen in a different light.
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On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:
[quote]
That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter.
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder.
I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before.
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On March 25 2012 02:45 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
[quote]
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder. I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before.
New sites are also say Zimmermann is white nazi out to kill every black male in FL and this was purely a race crime, it's all about rating they are trying to make some massive ordeal for rating over a series of unfortunate events that lead to the dead of a man.
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On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:
[quote]
That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter.
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line.
Idn I've called 911 once to report a car accident I drove past. over 22 years. I honestly don't really care about the 911 calls,
The issue is the false sense of authority the stand your ground law gives people like Zimmerman. And the insane amount of armed killing unarmed murders that have been swept under the rug as a result of the law. And the possibly even greater number of murderers that aren't even charged and brought before a jury to prove their claims of self defense (which is how a self defense- defense- is suppose to work. You have to prove you acted in self defense since you are admitting to committing the crime. You prove this to a jury of your peers, not to the DA who is too lazy to file charges and likes the easy way out.)
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On March 25 2012 01:59 stokes17 wrote:
What's much more important here (obviously not trying to under value Martin's life) is the fact that nearly 170 similar cases (armed man kills unarmed man, claims stand your ground defense, gets off) have occurred since the law has been passed. Only 1 out of 168 cases were both individuals armed. What exactly were those 168 people each doing that was so life threatening as to warrant the use of deadly force?
And Furthermore (in case that wasn't bad enough) this case wouldn't even count towards those statistics because no charges were filed (those 168 cases were defenses against a accusation of homicide). How many hundreds of murders get swept under the rug because of this law?
And this law is in 19 states.
I see this as legalized murder. I can't possibly fathom having legal guns and this law on top where I live - and I'm almost positive I would have already been dead. It's incredibly easy to provoke a young male into attacking you.
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On March 25 2012 02:49 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
[quote]
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line. Idn I've called 911 once to report a car accident I drove past. over 22 years. I honestly don't really care about the 911 calls, The issue is the false sense of authority the stand your ground law gives people like Zimmerman. And the insane amount of armed killing unarmed murders that have been swept under the rug as a result of the law. And the possibly even greater number of murderers that aren't even charged and brought before a jury to prove their claims of self defense (which is how a self defense- defense- is suppose to work. You have to prove you acted in self defense since you are admitting to committing the crime. You prove this to a jury of your peers, not to the DA who is too lazy to file charges and likes the easy way out.)
I guess any good law can be maligned. Originally created to protect citizens, this "stand your ground" and "self-defense" really took a nasty turn.
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On March 25 2012 02:47 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:45 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder. I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before. New sites are also say Zimmermann is white nazi out to kill every black male in FL and this was purely a race crime, it's all about rating they are trying to make some massive ordeal for rating over a series of unfortunate events that lead to the dead of a man.
Well I like to think I have a discerning eye when reading the news.
But I agree with you, A series of terribly unfortunate events occurred here, and they were made possible by the stand your ground law. Furthermore, I'm terrified that cases just like this are never brought to anyone's attention, and murderers are just let go because they claim self defense. Its an absolute travesty.
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On March 25 2012 02:52 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:49 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line. Idn I've called 911 once to report a car accident I drove past. over 22 years. I honestly don't really care about the 911 calls, The issue is the false sense of authority the stand your ground law gives people like Zimmerman. And the insane amount of armed killing unarmed murders that have been swept under the rug as a result of the law. And the possibly even greater number of murderers that aren't even charged and brought before a jury to prove their claims of self defense (which is how a self defense- defense- is suppose to work. You have to prove you acted in self defense since you are admitting to committing the crime. You prove this to a jury of your peers, not to the DA who is too lazy to file charges and likes the easy way out.) I guess any good law can be maligned. Originally created to protect citizens, this "stand your ground" and "self-defense" really took a nasty turn.
I mean, you are basically giving private citizens with absolutely no training (FL is a shall carry state) less restrictions on the use of deadly force than sworn trained police officers. And you are doing so with absolutely NO oversight. I don't see how it is a good law even in theory.
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On March 25 2012 02:54 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:52 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 02:49 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:
[quote]
Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line. Idn I've called 911 once to report a car accident I drove past. over 22 years. I honestly don't really care about the 911 calls, The issue is the false sense of authority the stand your ground law gives people like Zimmerman. And the insane amount of armed killing unarmed murders that have been swept under the rug as a result of the law. And the possibly even greater number of murderers that aren't even charged and brought before a jury to prove their claims of self defense (which is how a self defense- defense- is suppose to work. You have to prove you acted in self defense since you are admitting to committing the crime. You prove this to a jury of your peers, not to the DA who is too lazy to file charges and likes the easy way out.) I guess any good law can be maligned. Originally created to protect citizens, this "stand your ground" and "self-defense" really took a nasty turn. I mean, you are basically giving private citizens with absolutely no training (FL is a shall carry state) less restrictions on the use of deadly force than sworn trained police officers. And you are doing so with absolutely NO oversight. I don't see how it is a good law even in theory.
In the great country of the USA, it's a right to carry firearms. So most legislation trying to regulate this is, according to many gun-activists, a violation of their civil "rights".
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EPT
