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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 25 2012 02:52 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:47 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:45 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:
[quote]
Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder. I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before. New sites are also say Zimmermann is white nazi out to kill every black male in FL and this was purely a race crime, it's all about rating they are trying to make some massive ordeal for rating over a series of unfortunate events that lead to the dead of a man. Well I like to think I have a discerning eye when reading the news. But I agree with you, A series of terribly unfortunate events occurred here, and they were made possible by the stand your ground law. Furthermore, I'm terrified that cases just like this are never brought to anyone's attention, and murderers are just let go because they claim self defense. Its an absolute travesty.
So, you think the law made the unfortunate events here possible ? I happen to think that Trayvon would still be dead in this fact scenario, regardless of the law. Perhaps the law is the reason Zimmerman hasn't yet been charged, but then again, perhaps not. In either case, Trayvon would still be dead, in my opinion.
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On March 25 2012 02:55 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:54 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:52 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 02:49 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line. Idn I've called 911 once to report a car accident I drove past. over 22 years. I honestly don't really care about the 911 calls, The issue is the false sense of authority the stand your ground law gives people like Zimmerman. And the insane amount of armed killing unarmed murders that have been swept under the rug as a result of the law. And the possibly even greater number of murderers that aren't even charged and brought before a jury to prove their claims of self defense (which is how a self defense- defense- is suppose to work. You have to prove you acted in self defense since you are admitting to committing the crime. You prove this to a jury of your peers, not to the DA who is too lazy to file charges and likes the easy way out.) I guess any good law can be maligned. Originally created to protect citizens, this "stand your ground" and "self-defense" really took a nasty turn. I mean, you are basically giving private citizens with absolutely no training (FL is a shall carry state) less restrictions on the use of deadly force than sworn trained police officers. And you are doing so with absolutely NO oversight. I don't see how it is a good law even in theory. In the great country of the USA, it's a right to carry firearms. So most legislation trying to regulate this is, according to many gun-activists, a violation of their civil "rights".
Ok no need to "great country of USA me" I'm from jersey, I shoot shotguns, I eat steak.
I'm not in favor of regulating owning and carrying guns. I'm in favor of regulating when you can shoot people. If you feel like you should have a constitutional right to kill people with "I felt threatened" as a justifiable defense, then I don't really know what to say to that.
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On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 25 2012 01:34 Doublemint wrote:
[quote]
That makes perfect sense. I too would be scared shitless if someone followed me in the middle of the night. Who knows what exactly happened, the bottomline is that someone, encouraged by his surroundings( neighbour watch because recent break ins/ friendly "vigilante" laws) acted about as bad and out of his rights as possible. I can understand that notion that people want to protect their own property - even with force, but that they try to play hero and are paranoid as shit with no police training or authority whatsoever - can´t even fathom how irresponsible this behaviour is, and the law that encourages this for that matter.
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line.
46 is a lot of calls regardless of where you live.
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On March 25 2012 02:58 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:52 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:47 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:45 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder. I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before. New sites are also say Zimmermann is white nazi out to kill every black male in FL and this was purely a race crime, it's all about rating they are trying to make some massive ordeal for rating over a series of unfortunate events that lead to the dead of a man. Well I like to think I have a discerning eye when reading the news. But I agree with you, A series of terribly unfortunate events occurred here, and they were made possible by the stand your ground law. Furthermore, I'm terrified that cases just like this are never brought to anyone's attention, and murderers are just let go because they claim self defense. Its an absolute travesty. So, you think the law made the unfortunate events here possible ? I happen to think that Trayvon would still be dead in this fact scenario, regardless of the law. Perhaps the law is the reason Zimmerman hasn't yet been charged, but then again, perhaps not. In either case, Trayvon would still be dead, in my opinion.
Well in part, the law doesn't adequately address the astronomically high level of gun-deaths in the US, many of which I'm sure are similar to this case. Who knows, if there were limits to gun-use, Zimmerman wouldn't have been inclined to shoot Trayvon. Of course, I can't prophesize what would have happened. But who knows, maybe it might be turned out better.
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On March 25 2012 02:58 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:52 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:47 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:45 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:42 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm, you are basically right. It was over 8 years from a few sources found on google. OP is incorrect. Yes the OP is incorrect on a lot of his statements of "facts" that have been proven wrong, which is why 79 pages later we are having the exact same argument every time a new poster comes in reading on the OP and crying outrage and murder. I changed my post, Decent news sites are citing everything from 1 year to 8 years to 11 years. So I reserve judgement http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html This article sheds light onto Zimmerman's previous behavior. Apparently he's chased "suspicious" people before. New sites are also say Zimmermann is white nazi out to kill every black male in FL and this was purely a race crime, it's all about rating they are trying to make some massive ordeal for rating over a series of unfortunate events that lead to the dead of a man. Well I like to think I have a discerning eye when reading the news. But I agree with you, A series of terribly unfortunate events occurred here, and they were made possible by the stand your ground law. Furthermore, I'm terrified that cases just like this are never brought to anyone's attention, and murderers are just let go because they claim self defense. Its an absolute travesty. So, you think the law made the unfortunate events here possible ? I happen to think that Trayvon would still be dead in this fact scenario, regardless of the law. Perhaps the law is the reason Zimmerman hasn't yet been charged, but then again, perhaps not. In either case, Trayvon would still be dead, in my opinion.
I disagree. This Zimmerman fellow felt a false sense of authority from being on the neighborhood watch and knowing he was protected under the "stand your ground" law. I don't think Zimmerman was out trying to commit murder, in his mind. I think he felt like he was an officer of the law acting within the extremely loose restrictions placed upon him to stop crime.
But, I wouldn't completely disregard the possibility that Zimmerman is just a crazy guy (his past behavior of chasing suspicious people does suggest that).
Either way, the law is garbage and is doing nothing but covering up murder under the guise of "i felt threatened".
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http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4
SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Investigators with the Sanford Police Department are still trying to figure out exactly what happened during an altercation which resulted in a fatal shooting in the Twin Lakes area. The shooting happened just after 7 p.m. Sunday evening on Twin Trees Lane. A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.
"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."
Police said the shooter, identified as 25-year-old George Zimmerman, surrendered immediately. He has been questioned, but no charges have been levied and no arrest made.
Neighbors tell us that the shooter patrols the community at night and is a member of the Neighorhood Watch committee; however, police are not commenting.
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On March 25 2012 01:32 stokes17 wrote:
This case specifically- The police chief absolutely did not follow the law in not arresting zimmerman. A defense of justifiable homicide is only a defense at trial. It is the burden of the defendant to prove his actions were in self defense once he admits to committing the crime. At the time the police had a grown 250 lb man with a smoking gun standing over an unarmed dead 140lb boy- you have probable cause that this man committed a crime-- you arrest him. Could you imagine if the way the sanford police handled this case as standard operating procedure (enter mall shoot 10 people-- but officer it was in self defense-- o ok sweet dood have a good night)
What is the most disgusting part of this whole case is that the Martin family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released. This police department was actively trying to prevent the truth of Martin's death to come out. That is blatant obstruction of Justice. The Sanford police department has exhibited more criminal activity in this case than the poor dead little Martin.
If they treated Zimmerman like a criminal at the scene of the crime, rather than assuming he was a victim --- and they had every damn right too, considering the dead body they found -- they might actually have discovered what actually transpired.
Now all we can do is guess.
This is what bothers me the most about the case -- that the police gave Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he seemed white enough and Trayvon was black.
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Poll: What if Trayvon was a White Emo Kid?Zimmerman would have been arrested. (21) 75% Not difference whatsoever. He stood his ground. (5) 18% Zimmerman would have at least been tested for drugs and alcohol. (2) 7% 28 total votes Your vote: What if Trayvon was a White Emo Kid? (Vote): Zimmerman would have been arrested.
(Vote): Zimmerman would have at least been tested for drugs and alcohol.
(Vote): Not difference whatsoever. He stood his ground.
Hey guys, thanks for answering this poll. It's good to know it's not just me.
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On March 25 2012 03:11 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 01:32 stokes17 wrote:
This case specifically- The police chief absolutely did not follow the law in not arresting zimmerman. A defense of justifiable homicide is only a defense at trial. It is the burden of the defendant to prove his actions were in self defense once he admits to committing the crime. At the time the police had a grown 250 lb man with a smoking gun standing over an unarmed dead 140lb boy- you have probable cause that this man committed a crime-- you arrest him. Could you imagine if the way the sanford police handled this case as standard operating procedure (enter mall shoot 10 people-- but officer it was in self defense-- o ok sweet dood have a good night)
What is the most disgusting part of this whole case is that the Martin family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released. This police department was actively trying to prevent the truth of Martin's death to come out. That is blatant obstruction of Justice. The Sanford police department has exhibited more criminal activity in this case than the poor dead little Martin.
If they treated Zimmerman like a criminal at the scene of the crime, rather than assuming he was a victim --- and they had every damn right too, considering the dead body they found -- they might actually have discovered what actually transpired. Now all we can do is guess. This is what bothers me the most about the case -- that the police gave Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he seemed white enough and Trayvon was black.
why do you assume that they treated zimmerman differently because he "seemed white?" this sounds like such bullshit. the guy doesn't even look white; he looks hispanic.
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On March 25 2012 03:15 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 03:11 Defacer wrote:On March 25 2012 01:32 stokes17 wrote:
This case specifically- The police chief absolutely did not follow the law in not arresting zimmerman. A defense of justifiable homicide is only a defense at trial. It is the burden of the defendant to prove his actions were in self defense once he admits to committing the crime. At the time the police had a grown 250 lb man with a smoking gun standing over an unarmed dead 140lb boy- you have probable cause that this man committed a crime-- you arrest him. Could you imagine if the way the sanford police handled this case as standard operating procedure (enter mall shoot 10 people-- but officer it was in self defense-- o ok sweet dood have a good night)
What is the most disgusting part of this whole case is that the Martin family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released. This police department was actively trying to prevent the truth of Martin's death to come out. That is blatant obstruction of Justice. The Sanford police department has exhibited more criminal activity in this case than the poor dead little Martin.
If they treated Zimmerman like a criminal at the scene of the crime, rather than assuming he was a victim --- and they had every damn right too, considering the dead body they found -- they might actually have discovered what actually transpired. Now all we can do is guess. This is what bothers me the most about the case -- that the police gave Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he seemed white enough and Trayvon was black. why do you assume that they treated zimmerman differently because he "seemed white?" this sounds like such bullshit. the guy doesn't even look white; he looks hispanic.
Not necessarily. He has a germanic name and tan skin. I have a germanic name and tan skin too, but I'm considered white.
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The saddest and most tragic part of this story is the time frame it took place in. Martin's call with his girlfriend went dead at 7:16 when he encountered Zimmerman. The police arrived at 7:17.
Quite literally, he was walking down the street minding his own business one minute, and the next he's dead.
That's just tragic.
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Walking down the street? Not exactly:
"A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
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On March 25 2012 03:15 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 03:11 Defacer wrote:On March 25 2012 01:32 stokes17 wrote:
This case specifically- The police chief absolutely did not follow the law in not arresting zimmerman. A defense of justifiable homicide is only a defense at trial. It is the burden of the defendant to prove his actions were in self defense once he admits to committing the crime. At the time the police had a grown 250 lb man with a smoking gun standing over an unarmed dead 140lb boy- you have probable cause that this man committed a crime-- you arrest him. Could you imagine if the way the sanford police handled this case as standard operating procedure (enter mall shoot 10 people-- but officer it was in self defense-- o ok sweet dood have a good night)
What is the most disgusting part of this whole case is that the Martin family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released. This police department was actively trying to prevent the truth of Martin's death to come out. That is blatant obstruction of Justice. The Sanford police department has exhibited more criminal activity in this case than the poor dead little Martin.
If they treated Zimmerman like a criminal at the scene of the crime, rather than assuming he was a victim --- and they had every damn right too, considering the dead body they found -- they might actually have discovered what actually transpired. Now all we can do is guess. This is what bothers me the most about the case -- that the police gave Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he seemed white enough and Trayvon was black. why do you assume that they treated zimmerman differently because he "seemed white?" this sounds like such bullshit. the guy doesn't even look white; he looks hispanic.
Shit dude, he looks reasonably white in the photo, but photos aren't perfect. Neither of us have seen the guy in real life. Let's not start an internet argument about whether or not a guy is white enough.
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On March 25 2012 03:28 Freddybear wrote:
Walking down the street? Not exactly:
"A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
You don't need to requote the article we've all read. Zimmerman called 911 while he was following Trayvon, who was walking down the street.
These are not disputable facts.
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On March 25 2012 03:28 Freddybear wrote:
Walking down the street? Not exactly:
"A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
Is this the same witness that believed Traydon was yelling for help, but was inadvertently corrected by police?
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uggghhh this can't be a good idea.
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On March 25 2012 03:29 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 03:28 Freddybear wrote:
Walking down the street? Not exactly:
"A man who witnessed part of the altercation contacted authorities.
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point." Is this the same witness that believed Traydon was yelling for help, but was inadvertently corrected by police?
Corrected to say that it was Zimmerman who was yelling "Help, help" and not Traydon Martin?
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On March 25 2012 03:28 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 03:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 03:11 Defacer wrote:On March 25 2012 01:32 stokes17 wrote:
This case specifically- The police chief absolutely did not follow the law in not arresting zimmerman. A defense of justifiable homicide is only a defense at trial. It is the burden of the defendant to prove his actions were in self defense once he admits to committing the crime. At the time the police had a grown 250 lb man with a smoking gun standing over an unarmed dead 140lb boy- you have probable cause that this man committed a crime-- you arrest him. Could you imagine if the way the sanford police handled this case as standard operating procedure (enter mall shoot 10 people-- but officer it was in self defense-- o ok sweet dood have a good night)
What is the most disgusting part of this whole case is that the Martin family had to sue to get the 911 tapes released. This police department was actively trying to prevent the truth of Martin's death to come out. That is blatant obstruction of Justice. The Sanford police department has exhibited more criminal activity in this case than the poor dead little Martin.
If they treated Zimmerman like a criminal at the scene of the crime, rather than assuming he was a victim --- and they had every damn right too, considering the dead body they found -- they might actually have discovered what actually transpired. Now all we can do is guess. This is what bothers me the most about the case -- that the police gave Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt because he seemed white enough and Trayvon was black. why do you assume that they treated zimmerman differently because he "seemed white?" this sounds like such bullshit. the guy doesn't even look white; he looks hispanic. Shit dude, he looks reasonably white in the photo, but photos aren't perfect. Neither of us have seen the guy in real life. Let's not start an internet argument about whether or not a guy is white enough.
you shouldn't be so quick to accuse people of racism/prejudice. neither of us know the police officers involved.
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On March 25 2012 03:00 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 02:44 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:39 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:36 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 02:35 stokes17 wrote:On March 25 2012 02:24 Doublemint wrote:On March 25 2012 02:16 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 02:15 FallDownMarigold wrote:On March 25 2012 01:53 Kaitlin wrote:On March 25 2012 01:42 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
[quote]
What gets me is that the police officer on dispatch TOLD him not to confront Trayvon. But Zimmerman did so regardless. You'd think that he'd take orders from the police. Your inability to understand that dispatch did not ORDER Zimmerman is unfortunate, but nevertheless renders your opinion pretty much irrelevant. Such an inane comment. No shit, Sherlock, the police dispatcher did not issue an order -- that's not what dispatchers do. Don't be so retardedly literal, guy. The dispatcher ***firmly suggested*** that Zimmerman refrain from pursuing/getting involved. Nor was it a firm suggestion. God, someone died because someone else fucked up big time - and this is what it comes down to? Bullshit semantics - only on the interwebz... So just for the sake of argument - what did he say - did Zimmerman and the dispatcher have a secret word only you, him and the dispatcher know about? Wait, are you trying to blame Zimmerman's actions on the poor 911 operator who's had him call 46 times in under 2 months? Zimmerman had a false sense of authority and an issue with young black males who went looking for trouble with his gun knowing he was protected under the stand your ground law. What the 911 operator said (which was "sir you don't need to do that" in response to him saying he was following Martin.) really has trivial importance imo. Again it was 46 calls in 11 years. Hmm I'm getting conflicting results. Google gives me 1 year here http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-made-46-calls-to-911-a-yearBut others have said 8 years. Idn, either way, 46 911 calls in a lifetime is pretty high. I've done probably done more than 46, I'm not even part of the neighbor watch or live in an insanely high crime rate area. Over 8 to 11 years, that really isn't much and they aren't all 911 calls, the majority of them are to the non-emergency police line. 46 is a lot of calls regardless of where you live.
I've probably done about that many in the last 11 years just reporting traffic accidents and wild fires, only 2 break ins and 1 stabbing and I'm not even in the neighbor watch.
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EPT
