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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
 " usually stops the bm before it starts though. but on the subject of random players: i think they are very brave. if i didn't suck with the other two races i would go random every time. edit: i wonder if the "theoretical best player" would be random...? | ||
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Slapshot
95 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. Good post. This is exactly why I don't comprehend why you would want to pick random instead of racepicking for each match. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:01 AXygnus wrote: Random screws up openings. Ever tried doing a 1rax concussive shell pressure into FE against Zerg? Solution. 1. Select Worker. Hotkey. 2. Right click one of the other spawns on minimap. Hold shift, right click each other spawn. 3. You have just "scouted" all pros (even SjoW now usu.) use this little-known strategy to gain important info about opponent. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:39 rycho wrote: lol? no shit it isn't a tournament, thats why i leave the game when my opponent is random, because i really don't give a fuck if it affects my ranking. i really don't think you could find someone who cares less about "ladder points" than i do. i simply don't enjoy pvr starcraft because i feel like i'm behind based on game mechanics i can't control, so i'd rather play pvp/pvz/pvz with my free time. when i feel like it, i'll throw in a proxy gate opener vs a random player here and there just out of boredom, and i'm curious why you would post something like: when the first sentence of the post you quoted is: how is that a complaint? its the exact opposite of a complaint, its apathetic. i don't know how you people get through the day sometimes with the stupid shit you infer. this thread is really sad, i thought this place was more heavily moderated. You are definitely not apathetic, because you actually said at the end of your post "personally, i don't think random should be an option for ladder race.". If you would be, you would not care one way or the other. And your second paragraph is full of complaining, so yes you are actually complaining. But to clarify as parts of my post are not perfect match to your post, my post was meant as a general answer to similar posts throughout this thread since I did not want to go and search for every one of them. I noted that somewhat at the beginning of my post though. | ||
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Emix_Squall
France705 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. And this is where you are fooling yourself big boy ... we might not face this kind of builds as often but we can still do some of these builds ourself since we got the information ... and playing with a build means loosing and winning with it, implying that at some point we might understand it's weaknesses and strengths. What you just wrote was just a ridiculous attempt to justify your losses against Random players .... "It's not my fault, it's just this twisted version of the match-up that got me behind" | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 rycho wrote: warn him for shitposting, because what he said was totally in opposition to explicit facts. it has nothing to do with my opinion; read his post. he quotes me saying basically "i don't care about cheese, pvr just makes for games that i don't find fun" and then goes off on a diatribe about how hypocritical it is for people to "complain about cheese". i think i'm just used to places with more moderation, i realize it wasn't the most offensive thing in the world. it just frustrates me how obtuse some people can be, and the guy on the previous page who quoted my post was even worse than this one. When you are contradicting that quoted sentence with a whole paragraph later on, sorry but I have no reason to actually take it at face value. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. There are advantages/disadvantages to playing random. No need to say we suck. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. Yup, I think you nailed it man. Everyone plays safe against random. Random definitely gets to play his normal game while the normal players do not. I think that's a big part of it. | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
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ChaoticBlack
Australia288 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. I play Random simply because I want to learn all the races as it's not fun 'mastering' just one. I always tell my opponent my race in the beginning of the game to avoid the problems you state and even when I'm raging and don't announce my race the opponents usually just scout me early and eliminates possibilities of cheese with the game going to macro mode. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:05 sc2superfan101 wrote: personally, i love random players. i am a very mannered person though, and i always try to respect my opponent as much as possible, even if they bm me. i have noticed that a "glhf " usually stops the bm before it starts though. but on the subject of random players: i think they are very brave. if i didn't suck with the other two races i would go random every time. edit: i wonder if the "theoretical best player" would be random...? Race picker would be theoretically best player. If he could pick races at least based on maps and even better based on opponents After that random probably. But that is all assuming some theoretical superman. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:10 Emix_Squall wrote: And this is where you are fooling yourself big boy ... we might not face this kind of builds as often but we can still do some of these builds ourself since we got the information ... and playing with a build means loosing and winning with it, implying that at some point we might understand it's weaknesses and strengths. What you just wrote was just a ridiculous attempt to justify your losses against Random players .... "It's not my fault, it's just this twisted version of the match-up that got me behind" Ok, you just didn't understand at all, did you? First of all, playing strategy A is not the same as playing AGAINST strategy A, that's just plain wrong. That's like saying that playing Terran is the same as playing vs Terran. Hint: it's not. You might have a slightly better understanding of a build's weaknesses by playing it yourself, but you certainly don't know how to play against it, don't spout such bullshit now. Second, I was not complaining about MY losses, but about YOUR almighty "macro random" attitude. It's YOU who play the fucking distorted matchups, not me (well, except against randoms, of course). At least random cheesers are honest to themselves ;D Edit: Again, I'm not saying that Randoms are bad players. Just don't go thinking that you got the full game figured out because you play the 3 races, that's not true, because you don't play against openings that are actually THE standard in your 9 matchups. An opening is very important, that's why people refine them and optimize worker mining and scout timing. All of that goes to trash against random opponents. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. Agree 100%. As toss, i can never FFE against z (unless i scout on 6 on a 2 player map... lol) and I HAVE to gateway-wall, which puts me way behind against a competent protoss. I never cheese or BM random players (they're just having fun after all), but i do leave customs vs R. I really don't want to deal with the bullshit of an auto-loss if my opponent is equal skill and i had to 'gimp' my opener. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
For example, I used to get a Random every other game on TDA and I'm Protoss. Now, do I go about building my pylon+buildings in my base, or do I go wall the choke off? Better guess correctly, because if you don't and random is Zerg, they're going to probably be scrubs and do a ling run by. And if you do wall in and they're T/P, they're going to rush you with a 4gate or M+M. Durr, heres to guessing against random players. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 ZenithM wrote: See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. wait what WHAT i don't even know how to respond to this. you are using quotes inappropriately, implying that you've watched every single one of my random games for the past decade, and assuming your "bit of random" experience in whatever scrub league you're in gives you complete understanding of my starcraft skills. how did you come up with this style of argumentation? are you for real? only thing that's correct in that entire post is that i know 3 races and i'm the shit. | ||
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AXygnus
Portugal1008 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:06 Arghmyliver wrote: Solution. 1. Select Worker. Hotkey. 2. Right click one of the other spawns on minimap. Hold shift, right click each other spawn. 3. You have just "scouted" all pros (even SjoW now usu.) use this little-known strategy to gain important info about opponent. What if you scout him late? On a map like Tal'darim? Your build gets botched. | ||
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