EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 18
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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NoScary
United States151 Posts
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:39 rycho wrote: lol? no shit it isn't a tournament, thats why i leave the game when my opponent is random, because i really don't give a fuck if it affects my ranking. i really don't think you could find someone who cares less about "ladder points" than i do. i simply don't enjoy pvr starcraft because i feel like i'm behind based on game mechanics i can't control, so i'd rather play pvp/pvz/pvz with my free time. when i feel like it, i'll throw in a proxy gate opener vs a random player here and there just out of boredom, and i'm curious why you would post something like: when the first sentence of the post you quoted is: how is that a complaint? its the exact opposite of a complaint, its apathetic. i don't know how you people get through the day sometimes with the stupid shit you infer. this thread is really sad, i thought this place was more heavily moderated. What exactly did you want the moderators to do against this person? Warn him for having an opposing view? | ||
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kawaiiryuko
United States368 Posts
A lot of comments seem to think that it is unfair that you don't know your opponent's race and that you are forced to scout. The trade-off seems simple: you get a slight knowledge advantage over your opponent if you play random, in exchange for being a jack of all trades and master of none. It seems like a fair trade to me? | ||
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blackberry_
114 Posts
Deciding which build order to do is the frustrating part. If I 1 rax expand, it will be okay vs a protoss, but against a zerg, I could have reactor'd hellion (arguably the best TvZ opening so far) for early map control & scouting for incoming ling bane roach busts. I could solve my problems by coming up with a build that is designed for vs Random play, but I just don't care that much about beating a random player. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:20 Arghmyliver wrote: So youve never lost, or you pretty much have never lost. Which one hotshot. well, I cannot say I have never lost, because that would not be true (I have lost to R during beta for example), but I have not lost to random in a very long time, so I went with a wording which describes how I think of it, if I face random I have very very very good chances of winning. in other words: both my statements are true, I simply have played for more than 3 seasons. besides, 11overpool 18hatch with correct scouting and transitioning holds literally every early cheese and allin which exists at my level of play (which, I admit, is low. but my point stands) and after I get into midgame all I need to do is to beat an inexperienced player at a macrogame. it doesn't get any easier than that. | ||
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Marti
552 Posts
Every player can cheese / all in you . Maybe random players tend to do more cheese / allin / greedy openings, but everyone does that. The problem is that against a random, until you have scouted him, you have to account for the possibility that he will 15 hatch / 3rax allin / 4 gate you at the start of the game. If only you'd be able to know his race at the start of the game, like, maybe in the loading screen : " random : terran " or at the start of the game a message like " [Your opponent's name] is ZERG " appears every second for the first 5 seconds, something that lets you know your opponen'ts race before you throw down your spawning pool / hatcherie/ extractor // build your first pylon ... etc etc | ||
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rycho
United States360 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:49 Valentine wrote: Who cares whether or not you get to use an optimal build 100% of the time rather than 66% or 33%. Gaging who is more behind (one has to practice 9 matchups, the other practices 3; one has to use an all-around safe build for the first 2 minutes, the other has an opportunity to exploit that.) People just like to have a reason to dislike certain players. Some cry when they lose to z/t/p, others cry that they can't get everything they want for 2 minutes. What exactly did you want the moderators to do against this person? Warn him for having an opposing view? warn him for shitposting, because what he said was totally in opposition to explicit facts. it has nothing to do with my opinion; read his post. he quotes me saying basically "i don't care about cheese, pvr just makes for games that i don't find fun" and then goes off on a diatribe about how hypocritical it is for people to "complain about cheese". i think i'm just used to places with more moderation, i realize it wasn't the most offensive thing in the world. it just frustrates me how obtuse some people can be, and the guy on the previous page who quoted my post was even worse than this one. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:34 intrigue wrote: exactly this. i play random exclusively because i think it gives me a more complete experience of the game, and because i'm confident enough in my skill level to not care if i lose. even after getting outplayed badly in standard macro games, people still attribute it to me being random. anyone i beat randoming zerg (not specifically) with any of my races is probably going to lose to my terran and protoss too, even if they picked beforehand for me. also as random i rarely get cheesed. if you can't stand all this alleged cheesing on ladder (only reason anyone loses, right?), maybe you should consider being random yourself. random vs random is an incredible matchup. See, this is what I don't like with random players. The non-cheesy ones are even worse than the cheesers. They think of them as some kind of big shots because they "master 3 races" and beat scrubs who only know 1 race in "macro games". Well, you're fooling yourselves guys, plain and simple. You don't know what it's like to play vs forge fast-expand, for example. How can you claim being some kind of macro gosu if you don't even play against PvZ's most standard opener? I played a bit of random myself. When I spawned TvZ, guess what, the other guy didn't even hatch first, for fear of some ZvZ build order loss (why would he risk hatching first against a most likely lesser Z?). So all the TvZ I played were against pool first. What's the standard in ZvT guys? Hatch first, that's right, not the crappy build you're always playing against in TvZ. Nexus first in TvP? I bet you didn't ever see that one with your T right? "Normal scrub" Terrans scratch their heads trying to know how to keep up with/punish it. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples in all matchups. Please don't come at us with that "I know 3 races and I'm the shit" kind of attitude. You know 9 lesser and distorted versions of all matchups, is all what you know. It's good, but it's not the full game. You might be a good player, but you're a good ZvWankyGatewayExpands player, not a good ZvP player, and won't ever be acknowledged as such, with Blizzard's current system. | ||
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Aratan
United States90 Posts
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
On a serious note, to any of those who posted in 18 pages of bitching and moaning, has it occurred to you that if you actually just played more games instead of flaming randoms in threads, you'd be good enough to not lose to their cheese? Seriously, the reason you're losing isn't because of randoms, it's just an excuse for the fact that your lack of scouting that cost you the game. If it's really just a coinflip and you either pick the correct build to do or lose, how could Korean pros like Polt win against randoms or at least take it to late game after defending an allin in the large majority of his stream games. Do you think he'd lose to gold or plat NA/EU players just because they 6 pool and he can't scout it in time? Fuck no. Those 40 minerals/minute that put you SOOOOOOOOOOOOO far behind when you pylon scout..don't matter if it lets you scout what's up and win the game. It is such a negligible economic difference that it has no effect on the game until you reach high master/gm level of play. So what if you can't FFE, PRO players can bitch about the difference costing them the game because their random opponents actually know what the fuck they're doing. But Randy Random gold league rolls Z and hatch firsts against a 3 gate expo....builds won't be a contributing factor in who wins. Yeah, some randoms cheese but there are people out there like me that gl/hf and tell my race after I load, because the only reason I'm not picking a race is due to the cool portraits >.> and you know what happens in 70-80% of my games? PEOPLE CALL ME FUCKING RETARDED FOR ANNOUNCING MY RACE But apparently none of the posters here would go that far. Just thought I'd give you a perspective of a random player. TL:DR play more, bitch less. | ||
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rycho
United States360 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:55 Marti wrote: If only you'd be able to know his race at the start of the game, like, maybe in the loading screen : " random : terran " or at the start of the game a message like " [Your opponent's name] is ZERG " appears every second for the first 5 seconds, something that lets you know your opponen'ts race before you throw down your spawning pool / hatcherie/ extractor // build your first pylon ... etc etc yeah, this would be awesome. i think you would find some random players in support of this (probably the same ones who tell you their race before the game), but i think the majority want to keep their free advantage. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:34 Vega62a wrote: This is ... not an intelligent response. And it's condescending, to boot, but where would an unintelligent internet post be without a healthy dose of condescension? If you do not know the race your opponent is, and your opponent does know your race, and your opponent is even remotely competent, you are at a disadvantage. Saying that your opponent is then disadvantaged and is therefore entitled to claim other unfair advantages because he is not as good as you is absurd. That's basically saying that if I play a lower-ranked player I should be required to give him some advantage to "make it fair." Playing random does not put you at a "disadvantage," because putting yourself at a "disadvantage" implies that you are deliberately handicapping yourself for that game. Playing random doesn't disadvantage you because you are just worse at the game for it. You don't learn timings, or builds, how to deal with various pressures or cheeses, you don't solidify the macro mechanics of your race. You are simply not as good. And you talk about condescension ? Also some random players are better than some non-random players. That simple fact destroys your last two sentences. You probably meant to say that their alternate self playing one race would be better than their current random self, but there is nothing to really support that hypothesis in general. On February 24 2012 02:34 Vega62a wrote: Random is not a race. You do not random into a random race. You do not pick a new strategy for a not-race. You random into T, P, or Z, and your opponent HAS to play the game as though you are T, P, or Z. Good players play each of those matchups differently, and begin those matchups with the knowledge of what race their opponents are. Playing a game without that basic knowledge makes that game silly. The point that people are trying to make that you seem to be doing your best to ignore is that if you took two players, one of whom had some quantified level of skill X at only one race, and one of whom had the same quantified level of skill X at all 3 races, and allowed the latter player to play random, he would be at an advantage. The player who picked his race would not be able to execute a proper opening build versus the race that the latter player spawned as. So I'm not sure how you arrived at your conclusions, as you didn't explain or back them up at all, but you are, sadly, simply wrong. Actually you are wrong. Yes, random is not a race. However random is part of the game that Blizzard designed and that you play. Read some game theory, you will find out that in fact there is something like a strategy against random. And it is highly likely that if optimal strategy for normal matchups exists it also exists for XvR. My point is the game contains random and it is not up to you to limit the game just because you do not like parts of it. Since Blizzard quite deliberately put random in, it is not a basic knowledge to know your opponents race. | ||
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
So in a way, if you lose to a random player, you really should relook your basic understanding of the game because, in a way, you already know he is going for a one base tactic, so you should one base too until you scout otherwise; and he will probably have less of an understanding for the other match ups. Generally if you don't FE and put early pressure on a random player, he's going to lose because he doesn't understand late game. Random players almost always win early game. When I've lost to random players, it was always to a) 6 pool b) well-executed cannon rush c)four gate d) 2 rax all-in e) 5 rax all-in. All of these can be stopped with bunkers and repairing SCVs. | ||
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FinalForm
United States450 Posts
Also it is widely known that Random is extremely rare in the pro-scene. Although ofc most of us are not pros, or going to be pros, we like to think that we will make it there someday. Because of this, we generally are not interested in our TvR, PvR, or ZvR builds. Since we aspire to play at high level, we don't anticipate playing Randoms. | ||
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Slapshot
95 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:12 liberal wrote: People have trouble accepting the fact that someone could be so much better than them that they can play 3 times as many matchups and reach the same league as they are in. They assume the person is not more skilled than they are, that the person must just pull it off by doing simplistic cheese builds. I don't think this is true in most cases, as a lot of people have said that it would not bother them to play versus random players if the loading screen showed their race. At least personally I don't care if a person is two, three or ten times better than me in such a trivial thing as a videogame, its purely the fact that I cannot practice my builds which annoys me. | ||
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AXygnus
Portugal1008 Posts
Ever tried doing a 1rax concussive shell pressure into FE against Zerg? | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On February 24 2012 02:39 rycho wrote: no shit it isn't a tournament, thats why i leave the game when my opponent is random, because i really don't give a fuck if it affects my ranking. Yeah you and some others. Thanks for the free wins dude! ^_^ | ||
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
On February 24 2012 00:43 Pro]ChoSen- wrote: Why do people hate randoms? Because people are idiots simple answer. I'll never ever understand why people play a STRATEGY game and then complain about the strategy someone chooses. Like their is some effing manual on "how to play Starcraft like a gentleman". I choose my strategy, you choose yours, may the best man win. Your opponent isn't obligating to playing the game how you want him to but yet people still feel that way. If you think a certain race is imba, or playing random is imba, or cheesing is imba, or some build is imba, (first of all you would be wrong) but second of all you can pick what race you play or how you play. And don't give people the "i have self respect so I won't play (insert imba bias) or cheese" lol that's the stupidest shit ever. So if there was an option to play the race you wanted, but not letting your enemy see what you choose, would that be fair as well? | ||
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Rhine
187 Posts
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