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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 02:45 StarStruck wrote:
[...]Gom felt threatened and now they made a scapegoat out of Johan [...]
finally. someones got it. also this is turning into a copmlete wichhunt. people just want to see naniwa burn, because he probabl wasnt their favourite player anyways.
hes not mine neither. but still i realize goms reaction is absolutely unfair (as childish as it might sound - the term "unfair" fits just perfect).
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I really hope this doesn't plunge Naniwa back into a downward spiral...after all, he seems to be a pretty emotional player, this really could unsettle him/unhinge his play 
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On December 15 2011 02:49 MandoRelease wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:41 ninjamyst wrote:On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad. So the first time you cheat is ok? First time you steal is ok? The punishment isn't even that big. He didn't get banned from GSL. He can still qualify again. What Gom did wasn't that big of a deal. Exactly. It's just one season of the GSL, get over it people. No need to be outraged because naniwa got what he deserved (yeah, he did). If i were in charge, it would be a 3 seasons ban.
One season? That's if he can make it through the hell that is code b. There are so many good players that are unable to get through code b. Don't treat it like is cake.
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On December 15 2011 02:50 dp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:47 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:45 dp wrote:
His personal view on the situation is irrelevant. For example, lets imagine he was invited to a show match where the winner takes $5,000 and the loser takes $2,500. What if his mindset that day is that he only needs $2,500, so the match is meaningless. He probe rushes 3 games outta 5, losing outright. The contract doesn't necessarily state that he has to TRY to win the matches to get paid. You think this is OK? Of a professional? Grow up. Your personal views on the situation don't matter. You are being paid to provide entertainment to fans. If you don't feel the need to do your job, there is a good chance you won't have one.
No one would be satisfied with $2500 when $5000 can be won, your example is terrible. Maybe you are confused. It doesn't matter what you think. Remember? Only what he thinks. Because the world revolves around his mindset. If you can't understand the point of my post, don't respond with mindless dribble. K, thanks, bye.
why does it only matter what he thinks when his "personal view is irrelevant"...stop defending your terrible example
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Good decision. The likes of Naniwa and his followers are not needed in the GSL. Have some respect for the game and people around you.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:42 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:41 The KY wrote:
Well you weren't going to get that in the Nani v Nestea game, since both players were out and had nothing to gain from playing to their best and fullest potential. As Liquid'Tyler said, they would not and should not use their best strats against eachother in a meaningless game. Tyler also agree that Naniwa's behavior was inappropriate and thus deserve punishment.
Where did you read that?
The only thing I've found is
TylerWasieleski Tyler Wasieleski
People act like what Naniwa did is unprecedented. It's not. It's common. Naniwa just took it to the logical, non-deceptive extreme.
And some posts but nothing saying nani should be punished
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On December 15 2011 02:48 FLuE wrote:
The whole situation creates a very slippery slope. You are basically saying that there are limits on certain strategies because those strategies are viewed as not "respecting the opponent" or putting proper effort into the competition. But where is the line drawn? I mean we've already seen that a probe rush can win games
Okay first, a probe rush has never won a game against a proplayer, or probably anyone who is above gold league. Second, every professional sports league I know of it forbids you to throw games. They do not list exacting criteria for what exactly you have to do to "throw a game". I know specifically in the NHL they take away draft picks as punishment. Perhaps it would have been smart for GOM to explicitly listed this somewhere, but the sports leagues are like 80 years old and GOM just a few.
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On December 15 2011 02:48 Slin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 Slin wrote:
Is there any way Nani can pursue legal action against GSL (or maybe MLG) for this obvious scam?
User was warned for this post Since I was told in my warning message to please explain why I think this is a scam here is why: NaNiwa placed well in an MLG and got awarded a spot in the GSL code S. Then suddenly they took this spot away for no good reason thus scamming NaNiwa for much of his hard work. The GSL code S spot is a notable part of the MLG price pool. To me this is an obvious scam.
Why people kept saying that he was awarded Code S?
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On December 15 2011 02:43 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:33 labbe wrote:
This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community Then why do you think GOM hands out Code A seeds to foreigners who would otherwise be unable to compete for them the usual way?
Call me crazy, but I think they hand out foreigner seeds to get more international viewers. More viewers = more money. And then they have the nerve to revoke Naniwa's invite to Code S, for breaking the sanctity of competition, calling him a "money hunter", and at the same time they invite 2 other players based on popularity, basically shitting upon the sanctity of competition, for the sole reason of making money.
This is hypocrisy in it's finest form.
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Anyone know how hard it is to get a ticket refund from GomTV? Watching Naniwa in code S was one of my main motivations for actually buying this ticket as he is (and still is) my favorite player.
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On December 15 2011 02:49 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:48 Slin wrote:On December 15 2011 01:26 Slin wrote:
Is there any way Nani can pursue legal action against GSL (or maybe MLG) for this obvious scam?
User was warned for this post Since I was told in my warning message to please explain why I think this is a scam here is why: NaNiwa placed well in an MLG and got awarded a spot in the GSL code S. Then suddenly they took this spot away for no good reason thus scamming NaNiwa for much of his hard work. The GSL code S spot is a notable part of the MLG price pool. To me this is an obvious scam. You need to read the first post. It was not awarded contractually, just that he was the highest candidate in their selection.
That's what they are saying now, but if you check here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/
There is at least 5 sources that have said that NaNi earned/won/is in Code S. So, we can talk about misinformation and technicalities all day. After all the first tweet was: "NaNiwa is baned 2012 GSL codeS Season#1 Seed. so, GamaniaSen is coming!"
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On December 15 2011 02:48 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:46 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 sekritzzz wrote:On December 14 2011 18:38 CommunitySC wrote:@Ethan_Ahn Young-Hun. Ahn
To clarify, NaNiwa was one of those who were considered to earn Code S seeds, but it was IdrA and Sen who is coming for #GSL Jan. Please see below.1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed.
2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed
3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation.Edit: Apparently it was just announced on the Korean stream, so it's now official; Naniwa is out. Edit2: To clarify, it seems GOM has simply revoked Naniwa's Code S seed for the upcoming season, not banned him outright. Edit3: Here's the rule being used as justification: Warning or disqualification - 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때 - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours Can someone explain this to me? I dont get how Naniwa earned a Code S spot but at the same time its an invitation which needs to be decided? Isn't it set in stone if he "earns" a code S spot? It's pointless semantics involving the format change with GSL. He basically had earned the Code S spot via Providence, but the format changed so they had to change it to one of two invitations which were planned for the new format. Then this stuff happened and he lost the Code S privelage and now you're up to date. It is not pointless semantics. The first one is a contractual agreement while the second (the real situation) is a privilege that Naniwa lost due to his misconduct.
No both are privelages. You pull shit like this and GOM can pull your spot. It's not a right. It's a privelage.
Also they have rules where they can deny participation of players deemed to be unfit of being a progamer last time I checked.
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I agree 100% with gom ^^
Something like that should not be tolarated if we want starcraft 2 to be huge like a sport.
Maybe now naniwa will learn a lesson.
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[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 02:49 MandoRelease wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 02:41 ninjamyst wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
If i were in charge, it would be a 3 seasons ban.
[/QUOTE]
No, that's too lenient. He should be banned from ever touching a computer again. Maybe give him life imprisonment too. That way we can be SURE he won't insult or abuse any spectators ever again.
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On December 14 2011 18:57 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:56 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Nice work gom! I pay to watch games, not probes fighting. I pay to watch games that mean something, not pointless games between two eliminated players so GOM has more content.
You always have the option to not watch it, why deny people who do want to watch it?
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On December 15 2011 02:47 m0ck wrote:
Okay, here's the situation. Naniwa gets second at Providence and is qualified for code S. Now, according to GOM, as a part of their restructuring of the Code S league-system, they cancel the qualification spot and instead decide on a system, where they can invite two players to code S. They inform no-one of this decision, including the guy who qualified through Providence and still believes he is qualified for the tournament. He lives in S Korea, expecting to play the tournament from the beginning of January.
Now, one day after the controversy of naniwas match against nestea, and after having publically stated that: "NaNiwa is baned 2012 GSL codeS Season#1 Seed. so, GamaniaSen is coming! [2] #GSL [3] #SC2", suddenly GOM thinks of informing the public and naniwa of this change of system. They are infact not banning naniwa from code S, but just not inviting him to the tournament.
There are two options.
1) GOM is coming up with a story in order to make a controversial decision less so. Naniwa was indeed banned from code S, but the implication, that GOM can backtrack on an agreement with MLG and a player on no other basis than that they feel like, doesn't look good and so they come up with a story to make it seem less controversial.
2) Events did in fact transpire as described by GOM, with some pretty startling implication. Though they no longer consider naniwa qualified for code S, they do not inform him, his team, their partner mlg or the public of this change of policy, even though the player in question is establishing himself in S Korea with the expectation of playing code S in january.
I'm not sure which situation is preferable. I find the implications of what has happened pretty disturbing. Either, GOM is lying, or they failed to inform any of the involved partied of their change of policy. They make no consideration of the player who is basing his life around his expected qualification, nor apparently of their business partner. Some might call that 'unprofessional'..
Or 3) Wait for MLG's official statement. It's possibly they already knew about this beforehand and simply hasn't told the public that the direct seeding did not apply to Providence.
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On December 15 2011 02:49 ToasteR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:48 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 02:43 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:43 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 02:38 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 02:36 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:34 Bluerain wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 02:23 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 02:21 MorroW wrote:
[quote]
sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion?
if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match? Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective. well clearly naniwa did not know what he agreed to because no remotely smart person would probe rush knowing he would lose code S to it ive never played a tournament where someone said i HAD to play. giving walkovers is standard (if the game doesnt matter) and you get away with it in all tournaments ive played this far. so wouldnt be surprised if naniwa was under the same impressions it's common sense that if ur in the booth on a televised match that ur expected to well... play it out? yes walkovers are given in tournaments but you dont get into the booth on tv then expect one. yes there are no tournaments where u HAVE to play, obviously u can just forfeit but ull be punished. i see ur point but ur examples arent that good. nanima should be punished and u know it, ur just letting nationalism blind ur judgement The problem with that is up and down matches are casted and in a both yet the games that do not matter end up getting skipped, why do they have to be played out now? Because these are the rules in this tournament? FFS is it so hard? You sighn up for a tournament which has rules XXX. You play as you should. You get your starting money. You don't do this and act contrary to the wishes of the tournament organisation? You get punished. It's not fucking rocket science. I feel your frustration, it's like people don't know how to interpret facts anymore. Thing is Nani did play the game, not very well but it was PLAYED...its just the way he played it is the problem In many people's eyes that could not be considered a game. The only people who think that's a legit strategy are his blind defenders. It doesnt matter if its not considered a game in peoples eyes or not, or even if they try to defend that its a legit start. Thing is he logged into his SC2 account, accepted the invite to play vs Nestea from the tourney organizer and then "played" the game.
Actually it does. You can't just show up into work and sit there with your thumb up your ass doing nothing. Sure you showed up, but you didn't do your freaking job.
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Can't believe this is true.
Was planning on buying GOMtv premium, now (hope you guys at GOM are reading) : NO!
This just drives people to hate south koreans and apply "honour"-stereotypes to them, GOM is hurting the scene.
BRING NANIWA BACK!
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I'm shocked so many people are surprised. GOM is known for being strict such as not even allowing chat in the match. They want to be regarded as an absolute professional league which is taken seriously. Here they confirmed that they are still indeed strict and still are indeed maintaining their image as a professional league.
I can see both sides of the story but I'm sure GOM also reserves the right to change any rule at any time (all leagues I know of do this), so to those that say that this isn't a rule... stop being so naive.
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On December 15 2011 02:34 dude_2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:26 Toverkol wrote:Hmm, its somewhat hard. I would say a player has a right to forfeit any game, at any time. You are allowed to surrender in game, so why not before the start of a game. This happens often in for instance Magic, when a player has already achieved top 8, or is sure to have no chance of reaching it. On the other hand, in many other professional sports this doesnt happen. In football i've never seen a team outright forfeiting a match, they play their substitutes at most. I think there should simply be clear rules on this, and act by them. If there were no rules there can be no punishment. Offending the audience or opponent is a bit too ambiguous for me. I also fear/think forfeiting should simply be allowed, as it would take care of any motivation problems that influence matches like these. That would mean i'd also advocate for it in other sports, and if it results in these matches influencing group standings for others that is a flaw of the tournament structure or the responsibility of the player with the short straw regarding the schedule. My reaction to seeing it happen btw was a smirk and understanding where he came from. It even made me question why i started watching the game over another while there was nothing at stake  . you haven't seen a lot of football games, have you? just take dynamo zagreb vs. olympique lyon (last match in group stages of cl) a week or 2 ago. zagreb looked like a team playing to loose. by the way the result was 7:1 in lyons favor and could gain a spot for the next round.
Hehe, you didnt notice where i'm from i suppose, of course i saw that game, i even watch the low QRs of the euro league for interesting unknown teams. 
In any case, i meant outright forfeiting, as in doing so before the match starts, which is what i think Nani would have wanted to do. I've never seen this in football, i see substitutes, i see motivational problems, i even have seen the occasional match fixing (im not 100% sure on Dinamo btw). This all could be solved by allowing players or teams to forfeit.
Of course that would allow you to be able to allow your friend/teammate in to the top 8 like it happens in magic, but i think that is the lesser evil, and can be solved by changing tournament structure or see it as the responsibility of the player/team dropping short to not let it come that far.
I saw someone advocating for a difference in payout for 4th and 5th place, i guess that would've already been enough to evade this situation. Another person noted the matches in the up & downs that no longer matter that arent being played, another solution.
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EPT
