NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 248

While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.

Wallstreet11

133 Posts

December 14 2011 17:52 GMT

#4941

A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....

Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.

The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon.

Fischbacher

Canada666 Posts

December 14 2011 17:52 GMT

#4942

On December 15 2011 02:48 Snijjer wrote:

Show nested quote +

This right here the STEM of every argument in this thread. Some people expect people to fake a showmatch, even if it doesn't matter, and others don't.

It would be interesting to see if the people that bought a Blizzard Cup ticket are more in agreement with the decision than the people that didn't.

Personally Nestea-NaNiwa was the match I was looking forward to the most out of the 10. I was pretty darn disappointed that the first game my 2012 GSL ticket got me was a probe rush... Was it that hard to at least proxy two gate? I could have played that game better than he did and I'm in bronze.

Steel91

United States34 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4943

At least they did something, whether it is extreme or not doesn't matter. Perhaps now Naniwa and everyone else will think twice about not taking something serious even if it doesn't matter.

diophan

United States1018 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4944

On December 15 2011 02:48 Snijjer wrote:

Show nested quote +

This right here the STEM of every argument in this thread. Some people expect people to fake a showmatch, even if it doesn't matter, and others don't.

Actually I'm sure everyone wants them to actually try. If you're going to refuse to do that, at least make some sort of attempt to do something like a DT rush or 4 gate to have a non-zero chance of winning the game.

Velocirapture

United States983 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4945

On December 15 2011 01:41 Slin wrote:

Show nested quote +

Then you should be mad at GSL. They should have some kind of price money difference between going 0-4 and 1-3 if they expect the players at 0-3 to play seriously.

Am I the only one who doesnt have to be told by my boss to do my job or offered separate financial compensation for each action I take in the day? If I agree to do something for my boss I do it. If it takes longer than I expected to finish then it is on me.

If GOM lied to Naniwa about his obligations (saying he could take walk overs or something) then the fan boys have a case but I have seen nothing hinting to that. Pro gamers are entertainers, so do your jobs.

StarStruck

25339 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4946

On December 15 2011 02:47 iky43210 wrote:

Show nested quote +

what? they're commenters, they are not going to go raging in middle of their job.

The Korean community is mad, you don't have to question that. See MC recent interview

I've already read what the Koreans had to say and I found it hilarious.

I'm very well informed on their culture as well and I'm still sort of surprised they took it this far.

I sort of knew they would make a scapegoat out of Nani, but after seeing how it unfolded. Well sweet Jeebus.

With that said, I highly suggest they re-write the new rule because it can be interpreted millions of different ways.

Victory ceremonies and the way you win just got tossed out once again.

You manner mule me. Fuck you. OFFENSIVE! ;o

From a logistical perspective. The rule is a total fucking nightmare. It needs to be substantiated.

MayorITC

Korea (South)798 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4947

On December 15 2011 02:51 Europes-Mima wrote:

Show nested quote +

finally. someones got it. also this is turning into a copmlete wichhunt. people just want to see naniwa burn, because he probabl wasnt their favourite player anyways.

hes not mine neither. but still i realize goms reaction is absolutely unfair (as childish as it might sound - the term "unfair" fits just perfect).

Ya, they hate him so much they were considering giving him a Code S spot.

Except as a result of Naniwa's own actions, Gom recanted their decision. Truly unfair!

On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....

Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.

The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon.

Exact same thing.

You reap what you sow. Other Col players weren't having issues (or weren't voicing them).
I'm sorry, but as a full-fledged adult, I've learned a long time ago that there's no such thing as free handouts. If people are giving unequal treatment towards Naniwa, that doesn't mean it is unfair. Unfair would be when someone is treated unequally for baseless reasons. I don't know why the MVP house ostracized Naniwa so I can't comment if that was fair or unfair, but GomTV's decision was completely fair since they had valid reasons in their eyes to do so.

The Final Boss

United States1839 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4948

On December 15 2011 02:07 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Seriously are you entertainded(Glad inc) by seeing GSL full of koreans who have the exact same haircut, body shape, way of talking and mannerism? When Bomber and MC BM they are "unique" and "funny". When a foreigner like Naniwa does the thumbs down he gets booed at MLG and then he gets a severe punishment for "dissing" as some have called it a korean player?

Haha such a huuuuge amount of hypocrisy. "You do not probe rush a korean player because it was considered disrespectful. THEY WHAT is MC´s thumbs down, Bombers Shannanigans and all who make manner mules/nexi?

That is of course allowed and they don´t get shit for that but when a foreigner does not take a game seriously he gets punished in less than 24h!? Jesus what an organisation

He didn't get boo'ed at MLG for thumbs-downing NesTea, he got boo'ed for crying on-and-on at the start of the game, crying at the start of the game, disrespecting MLG, then trying to play it off as "hey look I won, yay cheer for me." The thumbs-down just shows that he's an immature player and a sore loser (which can be reinforced by his decision making here).

Also, ceremonies are highly different from what NaNiwa did. NaNiwa literally threw a game, and it is GOM's job to bring great games to their audience. If NaNiwa is going to get in the way of providing great games for the audience, he is going against GOM's mission and therefore should be punished.

On December 15 2011 02:53 Velocirapture wrote:

Show nested quote +

EDIT: This basically sums up my point of view.

baoluvboa

743 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4949

On December 15 2011 02:52 justinpal wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's what they are saying now, but if you check here: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/nc8g6/naniwa_loses_code_s_spot/

There is at least 5 sources that have said that NaNi earned/won/is in Code S. So, we can talk about misinformation and technicalities all day. After all the first tweet was: "NaNiwa is baned 2012 GSL codeS Season#1 Seed. so, GamaniaSen is coming!"

Misunderstanding with MLG and all the sources came from the MLG page

and that tweet meant that Naniwa was the highest seed for the invite but he blew it.

SpiffD

Denmark1264 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4950

Warillions

United States215 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4951

On December 15 2011 02:28 smakme7757 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 15 2011 02:24 Warillions wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:51 kickinhead wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:

On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:
[quote]
you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D)

also you dont ban someone for looking bored

this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say?

Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol

Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy?

Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well...

He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this.

we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament

they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game

if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter

You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc.

No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game.

sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol

does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them.

How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV.

I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy.

And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens.

THIS!!!!
but its a double edged blade. GOM needs the players, the players need GOM. theres other tournies and theres other players. both have seperate interests and noone has to play by the other's rules. they can work together if they both want too. theres other tournies for naniwa to make money at and theres other players for gom to show. its a business move and time will tell if it was a good one for GOM or not. also time will tell if naniwa feels his character isnt making it in the esports industry. im all for self expression but theres a time when you need to smart up and shut up. however its not that time. hope naniwa tells GOM to kiss his ass and i hope other players bandwagon.

It's true what you say, but what is Naniwa to GOM? Nothing. There are heaps of players that could take Naniwas position, both in Korea and around the world; The GSL is also is one of the best SC2 tournements in the world.

You think other players will just boycott the GSL because of Naniwa? I doubt it, maybe some foreign players, but it still won't stop GOM from making a killing with their korean players, but lets face it, foreigners will still travel to Korea because that's the Holy Grail in SC2!

guess what brown nose. its not the Holy Grail. your code S players are droppin games left and right. and are traveling outside korea to play. koreans wont be top for long, there are already plenty of korean lvl forieners to watch outside of GOM, i dont even watch gsl nemore, mainly just support MLG. and will continue to do so from shit like this happening.

perestain

Germany308 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4952

On December 15 2011 02:51 Asymmetric wrote:
This should put MLG in a precarious position actually.

1) MLG and its employees made it clear that Naniwa would recieve a code S spot from his performance at providence.

2) MLG tolerates players forfeiting games. Several well known players have forfeited there consolation seeding games after being knocked out of the championship bracket. They can therefor not logically endorse GOMTV punishing a player for essentially refusing to play an even less meaningful match.

Gom will get away with this scam though, because naniwa is not a popular player. He is to honest, gom expects people to fake a competition in situations like the one against nestea. With no clear stance from the community there will be no problems for mlg.

Polox

Sweden115 Posts

December 14 2011 17:53 GMT

#4953

On December 15 2011 02:46 SuperYo1000 wrote:
People saying Naniwa is the best foreigner?!? Thats highly debatable. Watching those games I didnt see anything to be impressed about. Either way he shouldnt get a free pass anyways to waste time/money/entertainment because he is skilled

He wants to act like a baby? He will get treated like one. Gom made the right choice

Then I question your eyes. If he's the best foreigner or not is as you said debatable, but if you can't see hes among the top then you have clearly made up your mind about it and refuse to realize the truth.

Femari

United States2900 Posts

December 14 2011 17:54 GMT

#4954

On December 15 2011 02:51 pPingu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Where did you read that?

The only thing I've found is

Show nested quote +

And some posts but nothing saying nani should be punished

State of the Game. Everyone was saying it was stupid of Naniwa and thought he shouldn't have done it. But they all said they understand how it happened.

Kznn

Brazil9072 Posts

December 14 2011 17:54 GMT

#4955

?????

Naniwa plays for quantic gaming son.
Quantic has NOTHING to do with MVP.

hypercube

Hungary2735 Posts

December 14 2011 17:54 GMT

#4956

On December 15 2011 02:50 LeopoldStotch wrote:

Show nested quote +

He's speaking for quite a few people. If you didn't have selective reading, you would see that a lot of people are happy Naniwa got that punishment.

I know. Actually, I believe I did say many agree with the punishment. But it's not fair to say he "shitted on everything he could" or even that he "disrespected his fans" or any variation of that.

ToasteR_

Canada551 Posts

December 14 2011 17:55 GMT

#4957

On December 15 2011 02:52 LeopoldStotch wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 15 2011 02:49 ToasteR_ wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:48 LeopoldStotch wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:43 ToasteR_ wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:43 LeopoldStotch wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:38 Velr wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:36 ToasteR_ wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:34 Bluerain wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:25 MorroW wrote:

On December 15 2011 02:23 Govou wrote:
[quote]

are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match?

Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective.

well clearly naniwa did not know what he agreed to because no remotely smart person would probe rush knowing he would lose code S to it

ive never played a tournament where someone said i HAD to play. giving walkovers is standard (if the game doesnt matter) and you get away with it in all tournaments ive played this far. so wouldnt be surprised if naniwa was under the same impressions

it's common sense that if ur in the booth on a televised match that ur expected to well... play it out? yes walkovers are given in tournaments but you dont get into the booth on tv then expect one. yes there are no tournaments where u HAVE to play, obviously u can just forfeit but ull be punished. i see ur point but ur examples arent that good. nanima should be punished and u know it, ur just letting nationalism blind ur judgement

The problem with that is up and down matches are casted and in a both yet the games that do not matter end up getting skipped, why do they have to be played out now?

Because these are the rules in this tournament?

FFS is it so hard?
You sighn up for a tournament which has rules XXX.
You play as you should.
You get your starting money.

You don't do this and act contrary to the wishes of the tournament organisation? You get punished.

It's not fucking rocket science.

I feel your frustration, it's like people don't know how to interpret facts anymore.

Thing is Nani did play the game, not very well but it was PLAYED...its just the way he played it is the problem

In many people's eyes that could not be considered a game. The only people who think that's a legit strategy are his blind defenders.

It doesnt matter if its not considered a game in peoples eyes or not, or even if they try to defend that its a legit start.

Thing is he logged into his SC2 account, accepted the invite to play vs Nestea from the tourney organizer and then "played" the game.

Actually it does. You can't just show up into work and sit there with your thumb up your ass doing nothing. Sure you showed up, but you didn't do your freaking job.

His job is to play a videogame, which he played 4 games that day. 3 of those games he tried on the 4th...didnt try at all but he still played the game.

Your example makes it seem like he showed up to GOM (going to work) then just sat there and didnt play (sitting with his thumb in his ass)

TheDougler

Canada8302 Posts

December 14 2011 17:55 GMT

#4958

On December 15 2011 02:51 IrOnKaL wrote:
Hmmm wow this is very interesting. Like what they said on sotg last night, where do you draw the line on what strats are "abusive and offensive". I'm sure Naniwa will think twice though before doing something like that again. Could you imagine if he said joke tournament during a gsl code S live match? To my understanding MLG did not punish Naniwa in any way for doing that.

And frankly they should have!

Hell, if they have there's always a chance that this situation never would have arose.

Naniwa bit the hand that feeds one too many times in my opinion.

And I can even see how some would call him not a pro gamer, especially as that is a translation.

Pro gamer is short for professional gamer.

A person who is un-professional is literally not professional.

Naniwa acted unprofessionally.

Somewhere along the line I can certainly see how a translated statement of "he is not a professional gamer" could happen.

The KY

United Kingdom6252 Posts

December 14 2011 17:55 GMT

#4959

On December 15 2011 02:44 Arceus wrote:

Show nested quote +

This "best foreigner" goes 0-10 in GSL. Im actually questioning the quality of Code S if GOM includes a player who got whitewashed every single time in ro32 Code frickin' A. Is Naniwa that worthy ? I can imagine GSL becomes more of a "serious tournament" skill-wise by removing that kind of player.

So you're denying that he's improved massively recently? Naniwa has proven that he can beat any player in the world, don't see how you could argue otherwise.

Trsjnica

United States477 Posts

December 14 2011 17:55 GMT

#4960

I posted yesterday that I would support GSL punishing Naniwa for this, and I do.

Naniwa's actions were unprofessional, and disrespectful to the GSL. Now, I am sure that he didn't intend to disrespect the GSL, but I support the GSL in sending a message that if games are on the schedule, we, as fans, can expect to see players play out those games.

I am purchasing a GSL season pass today in support of this action.

Prev 1 246 247 248 249 250 285 Next

Please or register to reply.

NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 248

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming