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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 02:56 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:53 Velocirapture wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 Slin wrote:On December 15 2011 01:36 ForgottenOne wrote:
All I can think is how I payed good money for the tournament, in part to see Nestea and Naniwa clash. Then I wait for hours to see this game. Then Naniwa pissed all over my money and time because he cannot suck it up and play a 15 minutes game.
On the other side, Gom are doing their best to enforce hard rules and to ensure tournaments get better and better each time and to protect my interests.
To conclude, if anything, these kinds of decisions from Gom should make you realize how serious they are and to thrust them more and want even more so subscribe and support them. I mean, do you even realize how many efforts did they make to give cheap and easy (compared to going through code A qualifiers) good spots to foreigners.
Then you should be mad at GSL. They should have some kind of price money difference between going 0-4 and 1-3 if they expect the players at 0-3 to play seriously. Am I the only one who doesnt have to be told by my boss to do my job or offered separate financial compensation for each action I take in the day? If I agree to do something for my boss I do it. If it takes longer than I expected to finish then it is on me. If GOM lied to Naniwa about his obligations (saying he could take walk overs or something) then the fan boys have a case but I have seen nothing hinting to that. Pro gamers are entertainers, so do your jobs. Difference is, you get paid for doing your job, and you'd get fired if you don't. Naniwa had no expectation of getting 'fired' (and the fact that did get punished in a similar fashion is irrelevant, he didn't expect it, and you do have that expectation). Naniwa was not going to get paid for putting in the effort, and didn't think he'd suffer a punishment, so under that logic, what's wrong with it? Yeah, he screwed up, no, it wasn't good logic, but that was his thought process at the time.
He gets paid by his team to compete. He got a part of the prize pool for the Blizzcup. He definitively was payed to play the freaking game
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On December 15 2011 02:48 Slin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:26 Slin wrote:
Is there any way Nani can pursue legal action against GSL (or maybe MLG) for this obvious scam?
User was warned for this post Since I was told in my warning message to please explain why I think this is a scam here is why: NaNiwa placed well in an MLG and got awarded a spot in the GSL code S. Then suddenly they took this spot away for no good reason thus scamming NaNiwa for much of his hard work. The GSL code S spot is a notable part of the MLG price pool. To me this is an obvious scam.
It's Goms tournement. They don't want him there for a SINGLE season. Bad luck to Naniwa for a month or two.
Considering they put the prize money up, the arena, the streams and so on Naniwa has no legal legs to stand on. At most he could argue to get his place back, but even that's a long shot because they have him on camera not doing anything at all. (Not even touching the keyboard.)
The ball in now in Naniwas court. Pukker up, train, take the ban on the chin and get back into the GSL after the ban is lifted.
From reading his profile he was kicked out of school and his home and has had a rough life, so now he's in a position to really take life by the balls and be a man!
I hate his attitude, but i hope he sees this as an opportunity to pursue a long and rewarding professional career in SC2 E-Sports!
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:57 Wicelo wrote:
people need to boycott gomtv and gsl, make them bankroot and maybe they'll show more respect for foreign ppl in the future
You mean like giving out two freebie foreigner seeds ever GSL because foreigners have shown they can't get into Code S any other way the past year?
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On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....
Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.
The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon.
Umm yeah
For people who claim to value respect so much they're very quick to talk shit about someone in public.
What's more BM:
Nani not taking a game that doesn't matter seriously, or MVP players not taking in-house ranking games vs Nani seriously? A lot of Koreans need to get off their high horses.
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On December 15 2011 02:59 Warillions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:53 perestain wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Asymmetric wrote:
This should put MLG in a precarious position actually.
1) MLG and its employees made it clear that Naniwa would recieve a code S spot from his performance at providence.
2) MLG tolerates players forfeiting games. Several well known players have forfeited there consolation seeding games after being knocked out of the championship bracket. They can therefor not logically endorse GOMTV punishing a player for essentially refusing to play an even less meaningful match.
They will get away with this scam though, because naniwa is not a popular player. He is to honest, gom expects people to fake a competition in situations like the one against nestea. right on. there all about makin that cash and dont care for the players. we seen it already in BW. not really sure why u'd expect anything different from a country like that anyway. ppl dont really fight for there rights too much there if ya catch my drift. oh and the entire world needs to disconnect themselves from GOM. theres enough foriegn money in viewership to pay for the great koreans to play in our tournies. they wont need GOM for too much longer i hope
You just made the most ignorant country about South Korea.
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On December 15 2011 02:51 Locustrockz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:49 MandoRelease wrote:On December 15 2011 02:41 ninjamyst wrote:On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad. So the first time you cheat is ok? First time you steal is ok? The punishment isn't even that big. He didn't get banned from GSL. He can still qualify again. What Gom did wasn't that big of a deal. Exactly. It's just one season of the GSL, get over it people. No need to be outraged because naniwa got what he deserved (yeah, he did). If i were in charge, it would be a 3 seasons ban. One season? That's if he can make it through the hell that is code b. There are so many good players that are unable to get through code b. Don't treat it like is cake.
Exactly. There are TONS of great players stuck in code B who would have LOVED to have the chance to compete in gsl and the blizzard cup. But here we have a guy who never even earned his way through code b and has gotten chance after chance after chance to compete in the gsl via foreigner tournaments basically mocking the entire system. The dude is 1-12 in the gsl. 1-12. 1-12. 1-12. I dunno about you but 1-12 is REALLY bad. He is in no position to act the way he acted, he has no right to be there, and gomtv is entitled to do anything they decide is right to ensure the quality of their tournament. Naniwa is the only player who constantly runs into these problems. Placing the blame on anybody but him is ridiculous.
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On December 15 2011 02:51 ToasteR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:50 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:45 dp wrote:
His personal view on the situation is irrelevant. For example, lets imagine he was invited to a show match where the winner takes $5,000 and the loser takes $2,500. What if his mindset that day is that he only needs $2,500, so the match is meaningless. He probe rushes 3 games outta 5, losing outright. The contract doesn't necessarily state that he has to TRY to win the matches to get paid. You think this is OK? Of a professional? Grow up. Your personal views on the situation don't matter. You are being paid to provide entertainment to fans. If you don't feel the need to do your job, there is a good chance you won't have one.
No one would be satisfied with $2500 when $5000 can be won, your example is terrible. Maybe you are confused. It doesn't matter what you think. Remember? Only what he thinks. Because the world revolves around his mindset. If you can't understand the point of my post, don't respond with mindless dribble. K, thanks, bye. why does it only matter what he thinks when his "personal view is irrelevant"...stop defending your terrible example
Alright, I guess you don't understand English. HE FELT THE MATCH WAS MEANINGLESS, AND SO HE DIDN'T TRY TO WIN. That is what you are defending. I am saying his mindset is not the only thing that matters, there is a level of professionalism and expectation to do his job. He did not do his job. Whether he felt he had to or not is not relevant. Do you not understand this? He tried to be a smart ass and was punished for it..
You are surely smart enough to understand that. Don't be blind to it because you like naniwa. His view on what is meaningless does not mean he is no longer required to do his job. Plain and simple. My example is over the top, but is the same. He knew what was expected when he was told he was not getting a w.o. He decided to give one anyway.
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Poland3751 Posts
GOMTV Website: Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSLAt MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
I believe MLG Providence does qualify for "2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus", doesn't it? So he earned a spot.
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On December 15 2011 02:47 Locustrockz wrote:
for those of you saying "he can just be in code s in 2 seasons if he's good enough" I call bullshit. I don't think you understand how hard code b is. There are plenty of great players who have been unable to get through code b even though they're amazing players and may deserve to be in code a/code s
Yes and those guys know the worth and meaning of respect and don't act like douchebags. He was just removed for 1 Season of GSL thats not that hard of a punishment.
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Well, at least now we won't have to suffer through Nani getting stomped in a Code S bracket...
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On December 15 2011 03:00 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +GOMTV Website: Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. I believe MLG Providence does qualify for "2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus", doesn't it? So he earned a spot.
No 2012 is a different system
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On December 15 2011 02:59 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:57 Wicelo wrote:
people need to boycott gomtv and gsl, make them bankroot and maybe they'll show more respect for foreign ppl in the future You mean like giving out two freebie foreigner seeds ever GSL because foreigners have shown they can't get into Code S any other way the past year?
Well in foreigners' defense, it's pretty difficult for anyone to make it through to Code S, especially for foreigners who are only living in Korea for a few months at a time.
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On December 15 2011 02:46 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:42 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 02:40 SpiffD wrote:
Okay GOM wants to make a statement. That's fine, but they are shitting on Naniwa fans. Their reason/rule is very vague and it is more likely they just wanted the more popular player Idra to compete. All this while Nani wasted resources coming to Korea in order to compete in code S. Naniwa with his action shitted on everything he could: His opponent which wanted revenge due to what happened at MLG. His fans due to not playing.The tournament/gom.tv due to not playing. His team due to not playing. Seriously... Even if there would not be any rule that rush would justify a ban. + Naniwa has a history of acting really... "stupid"... when it comes to tournaments in general so i'm prettty sure he would just do this again when not punished for it. Talk for yourself. There are plenty of people who didn't feel disrespected or "shitted on" or whatever. It's like saying that GOM disrespected the "entire foreign community". No, they made a decision that some people disagree with (and others agree). Same as Naniwa. He played in a way that upset plenty of people. At the same time many didn't care, were slightly amused or anything in between.
Nani has a history of behaving like a child. There's a good reason he's second only to Major in terms of inability to not get thrown off teams. If he hand't been punished for this, this kind of immature shit would have happened again. I'm in favor of it for a lot of reasons but just that rationale alone would have been enough for me.
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In a court of law a rule on a contract like the one GomTV used to remove NaNiWa's rights to play in Code S would get laughed at, and then GomTV would get sued. You can't have a rule that literally means players can't play a game outside the preferences of the GomTV management, and then not state what those preferences are-rules have to be clear and precise in a real, professional business environment.
The GomTV management have proved themselves more incompetent with every step they've taken in regards to this incident, and have perhaps even acted illegally. I doubt Quantic would want to go through the hassle of suing them when NaNiWa was not actually banned, but they should, for themselves and the entire community who would be much better off if Mr. Chae and the GomTV management were removed and replaced with people more able to organize and run an event like the GSL.
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On December 15 2011 02:59 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:57 Wicelo wrote:
people need to boycott gomtv and gsl, make them bankroot and maybe they'll show more respect for foreign ppl in the future You mean like giving out two freebie foreigner seeds ever GSL because foreigners have shown they can't get into Code S any other way the past year?
I think he means by not expecting foreigners to try in a meaningless game just for entertainment when players like NesTea have admitted to doing the same thing and suffered zero consequences.
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On December 15 2011 02:54 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....
Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.
The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon. ????? Naniwa plays for quantic gaming son. Quantic has NOTHING to do with MVP.
But does that tell you that "Hey they are happy to welcome foreign SC2 players in all of korea?"
I think thas is very bad behaviour since they know foreigners have so few to talk or socialize with. Then all of a sudden that Team speaks out harsh on their officiall twitter? Isn´t that fukked up?
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On December 15 2011 02:58 Polox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:57 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:55 The KY wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Arceus wrote:On December 15 2011 02:39 Korelle wrote:On December 15 2011 02:31 kochanfe wrote:
Actually, as NaNiwa's the best foreigner, there aren't "heaps of people" that could take his place
This. Removing Naniwa from Code S, quite possibly the best foreigner in the world right now, to somehow preserve the integrity of their tournament is absolutely laughable when on the same day they invite Idra purely because of his popularity, even though his results lately have been abysmal and not even worthy of a Code A player. It's either a serious tournament or a popularity contest, can't have it both ways. This "best foreigner" goes 0-10 in GSL. Im actually questioning the quality of Code S if GOM includes a player who got whitewashed every single time in ro32 Code frickin' A. Is Naniwa that worthy ? I can imagine GSL becomes more of a "serious tournament" skill-wise by removing that kind of player. So you're denying that he's improved massively recently? Naniwa has proven that he can beat any player in the world, don't see how you could argue otherwise. 80% of the pro gamers can take games off anyone. that doesn't say anything about his relative skill. But 80% of them can't take a Bo3 against MVP and Nestea, nor HuK, DRG and... Should I continue?
go ahead, you have nothing else to say. of course they can. the chances are just smaller. what do you think their win rates on on ladder and televised matches 99%? obviously not.
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On December 15 2011 02:57 Wicelo wrote:
people need to boycott gomtv and gsl, make them bankroot and maybe they'll show more respect for foreign ppl in the future
I'm stopping buying season tickets for the future and I call people to do the same
I'll bite the bait.
If you wanna be respected - respect the other person. Simple as that.
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On December 15 2011 02:52 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:48 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:40 2WeaK wrote:On December 15 2011 02:35 perestain wrote:On December 15 2011 02:25 ig0tfish wrote:
Hopefully this will save the integrity of e-sports. Naniwa spat in the faces of all the viewers. only in the face of those who prefer fake showmatches over real competition. Then again, wrestling should be their sport of choice. I stayed up expecting a match. Whether it was a fake showmatch, but at least show some effort. He made us stay there and waste our time. It would be much better if the last game ends, then the casters tell us "Okay, Naniwa forfeited, so the game won't be played" rather than "Naniwa vs Nestea, stay tuned!" that turns into a lolworker rush that lasted barely 2 minutes. This right here the STEM of every argument in this thread. Some people expect people to fake a showmatch, even if it doesn't matter, and others don't. It would be interesting to see if the people that bought a Blizzard Cup ticket are more in agreement with the decision than the people that didn't. Personally Nestea-NaNiwa was the match I was looking forward to the most out of the 10. I was pretty darn disappointed that the first game my 2012 GSL ticket got me was a probe rush... Was it that hard to at least proxy two gate? I could have played that game better than he did and I'm in bronze. Was looking forward to the nestea-naniwa game as well but when Naniwa lost to MMA I assumed they wouldn't play.
When they said they would play I was hoping there would be carriers or something so it was disappointing that way but did anyone honestly expect either of them to play a serious game?
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naniwa deserved the boot. pretty depressing that one of the few foreigners that was given a spot for Code S ended up dropping out because of inappropriate behavior, foreigners cant get in any other way. good decision by GOM, putting respect first.
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EPT
