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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 02:57 m3rciless wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:54 Kznn wrote:On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....
Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.
The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon. ????? Naniwa plays for quantic gaming son. Quantic has NOTHING to do with MVP. Well you're a dumbass. As of like a week ago he played for complexity, which has a partnership with MVP and he was living in their house. Do you even follow this scene at all, or just fuck around writing question marks?
yes, he used to play and live with them. And they are glad he doesnt anymore. They have nothing to do with him now, and they have all the rights to shit on his head for what hes done. I don't really see your point.
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On December 15 2011 02:33 labbe wrote:
This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community, no respect for thier customers, and no respect for their players. This whole situation is an embarrassment for GOMTV, and everybody involved. They should man up and take some responsibility instead of making excuses.
I have lost all respect for GOMTV as a company. They are not the organization I want to lead the E-sports scene forward.
EDIT: I at least hopes that GOMTV takes this as a lesson, and starts to actually communicate with the community. If they had been clear on their rules and their seeding policy, none of this drama would have occurred.
Wow...sorry, but thats just ridiculous. I mean, i think it is a pretty hard punishment, it may even be to hard. But i can respect that decision. I think the Korean culture is vastly different, and things like always giving your best are very important to them. I mean, one thing korean players will always say in interviews is that they try to show the best games possible to their fans.
I'm actually ashamed that this community seems unable to understand that. Everybody saying that GOM is unprofessional etc., isnt even trying to understand why throwing a game in a korean tournament may be a bigger deal for koreans than for us.
GOM provided us with the best production, best/fastest vods, highest quality games. How can you say they aren't respecting their customers? Because they banned a player that refused to put on a show for said customers? If anybody in all of this isnt respecting his "customers", it is Naniwa.
They made starcraft 2 to what it is in korea today. I sure hope they keep leading Esports, because they have done a pretty good job so far. To loose "all respect" because of this, what childish behavior is this? Everybody saying they will no longer support GOM, just because they acted according to their cultural values, is - in my opinion - ignorant.
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Does anybody know if there was a reason they didn't regame?
I mean they weren't exactly behind in schedule after the probe rush... so if they wanted a serious game why didn't they tell him and let the players play again? GOM can't be that narrow minded to say a regame is impossible
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Such a great decision by GOM, I was holding off on the season ticket but they just convinced me to buy it, they clearly value the integrity of the game, and naniwa simply was not deserving of Code S (terrible attitude aside, he is 0-10, just not ready for the big leagues)
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Naniwa deserved it. You don't disrespect the game, the viewers, and the sponsors like that, especially in an Asian cultured environment where respect is so important. It's a fact that what Naniwa did was not professional. I know Naniwa is an emotional player, and that might be what drives him, but being a professional also means controlling those emotions so that you don't do something destructive. It's sad that someone of his caliber could be so childish and not think of the repercussions of his actions.
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On December 15 2011 03:01 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:54 Kznn wrote:On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....
Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.
The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon. ????? Naniwa plays for quantic gaming son. Quantic has NOTHING to do with MVP. But does that tell you that "Hey they are happy to welcome foreign SC2 players in all of korea?" I think thas is very bad behaviour since they know foreigners have so few to talk or socialize with. Then all of a sudden that Team speaks out harsh on their officiall twitter? Isn´t that fukked up?
Do you know any foreigners with bad experience in Korea?
It seems that Naniwa who has a history of bad manner made Koreans dislike him, even in the team house.
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On December 15 2011 02:59 Warillions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:53 perestain wrote:On December 15 2011 02:51 Asymmetric wrote:
This should put MLG in a precarious position actually.
1) MLG and its employees made it clear that Naniwa would recieve a code S spot from his performance at providence.
2) MLG tolerates players forfeiting games. Several well known players have forfeited there consolation seeding games after being knocked out of the championship bracket. They can therefor not logically endorse GOMTV punishing a player for essentially refusing to play an even less meaningful match.
They will get away with this scam though, because naniwa is not a popular player. He is to honest, gom expects people to fake a competition in situations like the one against nestea. right on. there all about makin that cash and dont care for the players. we seen it already in BW. not really sure why u'd expect anything different from a country like that anyway. ppl dont really fight for there rights too much there if ya catch my drift. oh and the entire world needs to disconnect themselves from GOM. theres enough foriegn money in viewership to pay for the great koreans to play in our tournies. they wont need GOM for too much longer i hope
Yeah they surely don't care for the players. /sarcasm Is that why they give out money, and invite foreigners to play? Plus you are being greedy with the whole " theres enough foriegn money in viewership to pay for the great koreans to play in our tournies. they wont need GOM for too much longer i hope" you do know that it would be extremely taxing on everyone who pitches in their own money (to pay for plane tickets and hotels) and the Koreans themselves having to travel every time a tournament pops up because people like you want to take away the only offline SC2 tournament in Korea.
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Did Mr. Chae actually call Naniwa an "amateur money prize hunter", or was that a coloured translation for emphasis' sake?
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I don't think Naniwa is even banned from taking part in the Code A qualifiers to get in next season, in which case he could just take it as a learning experience and prove everyone wrong by getting back in despite the setback.
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ppl just boycott those unrespectful idiots, stop bying season tickets and make them bankroot, foreign tournaments like MLG are good enough. I won't buy any season ticket anymore you can say bye bye to my money rofl
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Poland3747 Posts
On December 15 2011 03:00 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 03:00 nimdil wrote:GOMTV Website: Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status. I believe MLG Providence does qualify for "2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus", doesn't it? So he earned a spot. No 2012 is a different system
It's different for 2012. But it refers only to 2011 MLG events, not to 2011 MLG EVENTS -> 2011 GSL EVENTS combinations.
We should have been able to read the agreement directly.
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As much as I like Naniwa, and am a supporter of him, I have to say that I feel this is completely justified and the only real response GOM could make.
At the end of the day, people paid money to see that tournament - and Nani put GOM in the position where people have paid them to see him behave like that. I don't feel that's fair to GOM, and I don't feel they can allow any player to put them in that position. It damages their brand, and quite honestly feels like a spit in the face to the fans (imo).
That said, I think it's going too far for them to be calling him "money grabbing" and the like, since I think it's fairly obvious from the situation as a whole that's not the case. I don't think Naniwa is a "disgrace to the name of a pro gamer", or anything equally extreme, but I do think this shows he's somewhat immature.
Is being immature a crime? No, and GOM shouldn't seek to portray it as such. Having some 'bad guys' around the place would add to the entertainment. But I do think there has to be a line somewhere, and for me that line is when youbring damage to the brand as a whole and/or devalue a tournament people have paid to see. Whether the match was worthless or not, that sort of behaviour isn't acceptable from anyone.
I hope Naniwa can get back there in a few months, but for now - I applaud GOM for doing the right thing.
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On December 15 2011 03:01 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:46 hypercube wrote:On December 15 2011 02:42 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 02:40 SpiffD wrote:
Okay GOM wants to make a statement. That's fine, but they are shitting on Naniwa fans. Their reason/rule is very vague and it is more likely they just wanted the more popular player Idra to compete. All this while Nani wasted resources coming to Korea in order to compete in code S. Naniwa with his action shitted on everything he could: His opponent which wanted revenge due to what happened at MLG. His fans due to not playing.The tournament/gom.tv due to not playing. His team due to not playing. Seriously... Even if there would not be any rule that rush would justify a ban. + Naniwa has a history of acting really... "stupid"... when it comes to tournaments in general so i'm prettty sure he would just do this again when not punished for it. Talk for yourself. There are plenty of people who didn't feel disrespected or "shitted on" or whatever. It's like saying that GOM disrespected the "entire foreign community". No, they made a decision that some people disagree with (and others agree). Same as Naniwa. He played in a way that upset plenty of people. At the same time many didn't care, were slightly amused or anything in between. Nani has a history of behaving like a child. There's a good reason he's second only to Major in terms of inability to not get thrown off teams. If he hand't been punished for this, this kind of immature shit would have happened again. I'm in favor of it for a lot of reasons but just that rationale alone would have been enough for me.
Inability to not get thrown off teams? You are right sir... He started in oGs and now he is in a team called "Hummingbirds united" cause he is so god damn unwanted...
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On December 15 2011 02:54 Kznn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:52 Wallstreet11 wrote:
A question about all who cry "he should be a professional" and "Things are expected of him form his team and GOM" and also "He wasn´t mannered enough to be in korea"....
Where was all this outrage over the fact that Team MVP more or less froze him out while he was supposed to be in a partnership with that team? On top of that MVP during this "scandal" poured shit all over him.
The one thing I hate are hypocrites and there are no fewer in Korea than the rest of the world you just have to broaden the horizon. ????? Naniwa plays for quantic gaming son. Quantic has NOTHING to do with MVP.
Complexity was his team until like 2 days ago, son. They are in a partnership with MVP. He lived in the MVP house before.
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On December 15 2011 02:59 dp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:51 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:50 dp wrote:On December 15 2011 02:47 ToasteR_ wrote:On December 15 2011 02:45 dp wrote:
His personal view on the situation is irrelevant. For example, lets imagine he was invited to a show match where the winner takes $5,000 and the loser takes $2,500. What if his mindset that day is that he only needs $2,500, so the match is meaningless. He probe rushes 3 games outta 5, losing outright. The contract doesn't necessarily state that he has to TRY to win the matches to get paid. You think this is OK? Of a professional? Grow up. Your personal views on the situation don't matter. You are being paid to provide entertainment to fans. If you don't feel the need to do your job, there is a good chance you won't have one.
No one would be satisfied with $2500 when $5000 can be won, your example is terrible. Maybe you are confused. It doesn't matter what you think. Remember? Only what he thinks. Because the world revolves around his mindset. If you can't understand the point of my post, don't respond with mindless dribble. K, thanks, bye. why does it only matter what he thinks when his "personal view is irrelevant"...stop defending your terrible example Alright, I guess you don't understand English. HE FELT THE MATCH WAS MEANINGLESS, AND SO HE DIDN'T TRY TO WIN. That is what you are defending. I am saying his mindset is not the only thing that matters, there is a level of professionalism and expectation to do his job. He did not do his job. Whether he felt he had to or not is not relevant. Do you not understand this? He tried to be a smart ass and was punished for it.. You are surely smart enough to understand that. Don't be blind to it because you like naniwa. His view on what is meaningless does not mean he is no longer required to do his job. Plain and simple. My example is over the top, but is the same. He knew what was expected when he was told he was not getting a w.o. He decided to give one anyway.
Your example is over the top but its completely different because there's SOMETHING to be won..$2500 as opposed to NOTHING like going 2nd last or last in the group stage. Your right he was being a smartass, i never argued for his decisions i just let you know your example was completely irrelevant to the situation
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On December 15 2011 02:57 Wicelo wrote:
people need to boycott gomtv and gsl, make them bankroot and maybe they'll show more respect for foreign ppl in the future
I'm stopping buying season tickets for the future and I call people to do the same
Ya, GOM so mean towards foreigners. Seeding two foreigners to Code S, two foreigners to code A and two foreigners to Up and Downs despite foreigners having a laughable win rate in GSL on top of having a team house for foreigners and changing the GSTL format to make it easier for foreign teams to participate and moving groups/matches to accommodate players flying to foreign events really shows that they don't give a damn about foreigners... oh, wait.
Its not like GOM and the Korean scene doesn't act that way in general (see: Coca). When you specifically invite a player to what you bill as a prestigious year-end event and they probe rush, its a slap in the face. I think the punishment was overkill but I understand the reasoning and I really don't believe xenophobia was a factor.
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On December 15 2011 02:52 labbe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:43 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 02:33 labbe wrote:
This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community Then why do you think GOM hands out Code A seeds to foreigners who would otherwise be unable to compete for them the usual way? Call me crazy, but I think they hand out foreigner seeds to get more international viewers. More viewers = more money. And then they have the nerve to revoke Naniwa's invite to Code S, for breaking the sanctity of competition, calling him a "money hunter", and at the same time they invite 2 other players based on popularity, basically shitting upon the sanctity of competition, for the sole reason of making money. This is hypocrisy in it's finest form.
Yes I think you deserve a ban. Please be thankful to GOM for spreading the love for e-sport. Jesus H. Christ you actually think GOM would be so benefited with like $5 per ticket ? Do you think some thousands ticket sold would be enough to cover the cost for hiring casters, renting houses, setting up streams etc. ? Thats not reasonable in any simple business sense. Sometimes reading post like this make me pretty sad
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On December 15 2011 03:02 Split. wrote:
Does anybody know if there was a reason they didn't regame?
I mean they weren't exactly behind in schedule after the probe rush... so if they wanted a serious game why didn't they tell him and let the players play again? GOM can't be that narrow minded to say a regame is impossible
That would have just been silly.
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On December 15 2011 03:01 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:58 Polox wrote:On December 15 2011 02:57 JoeSchmoe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:55 The KY wrote:On December 15 2011 02:44 Arceus wrote:On December 15 2011 02:39 Korelle wrote:On December 15 2011 02:31 kochanfe wrote:
Actually, as NaNiwa's the best foreigner, there aren't "heaps of people" that could take his place
This. Removing Naniwa from Code S, quite possibly the best foreigner in the world right now, to somehow preserve the integrity of their tournament is absolutely laughable when on the same day they invite Idra purely because of his popularity, even though his results lately have been abysmal and not even worthy of a Code A player. It's either a serious tournament or a popularity contest, can't have it both ways. This "best foreigner" goes 0-10 in GSL. Im actually questioning the quality of Code S if GOM includes a player who got whitewashed every single time in ro32 Code frickin' A. Is Naniwa that worthy ? I can imagine GSL becomes more of a "serious tournament" skill-wise by removing that kind of player. So you're denying that he's improved massively recently? Naniwa has proven that he can beat any player in the world, don't see how you could argue otherwise. 80% of the pro gamers can take games off anyone. that doesn't say anything about his relative skill. But 80% of them can't take a Bo3 against MVP and Nestea, nor HuK, DRG and... Should I continue? go ahead, you have nothing else to say. of course they can. the chances are just smaller. what do you think their win rates on on ladder and televised matches 99%? obviously not.
if naniwas the best foreigner in GSL, then foreigners should just give up immediately. 0-10 at Code A? come on...
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On December 15 2011 03:01 Giriath wrote:
In a court of law a rule on a contract like the one GomTV used to remove NaNiWa's rights to play in Code S would get laughed at, and then GomTV would get sued. You can't have a rule that literally means players can't play a game outside the preferences of the GomTV management, and then not state what those preferences are-rules have to be clear and precise in a real, professional business environment.
The GomTV management have proved themselves more incompetent with every step they've taken in regards to this incident, and perhaps even illegally. I doubt Quantic would want to go through the hassle of suing them when NaNiWa was not actually banned, but they should, for themselves and the entire community who would be much better off if Mr. Chae and the GomTV management were removed and replaced with people more able to organize and run an event like the GSL.
you actually have no idea what you're talking about. it doesn't even make sense. the only thing that is getting laughed at is Naniwa for the stupid shit he pulled in GSL. And Quantic sue GomTV? Why do you want to make a innocent party become a joke as well?
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EPT
