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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 01:56 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:53 Shalaiyn wrote:On December 15 2011 01:46 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Fjodorov wrote:
The main point here is that Naniwa is being punished for breaking a rule that doesnt exist. Its simply unprofessional practice by GOM. match fixing is a rule that doesn't exist now? Don't talk about terms you obviously have no idea about what they mean. Match fix: occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result. tell me which part of Naniwa's action was not match fixing
Naniwa wasn't going to throw the match if he won the other matchs or if nestea won the other matchs? Also this is more to just throwing a match not match fixing at all.
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On December 15 2011 01:57 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player But if you do not know if it is right or wrong to do so you should not do it thinking that there may be consequences for it. Hell if I was a pro I would try to win that last game just so I would not go 0-4 to make myself feel better even if it was a "meaningless game."
yes for sure. if i was in naniwas position at that time right before the game. i would ask if i could give w.o and if not, i would ask if i could probe rush.
doing it "blindly" without knowing was a very questionable choice
so even if its the orgas responsibility, i as a player still should think of my own best and figure out everything if im in the green or not. i hate taking risks when it comes to rules so i always make sure with admins first if i can do something
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On December 15 2011 01:56 B.I.G. wrote:
the poor guy just seems to be so socially awkard I dont think he realises how people will react to half the stuff he does...
Extremely good point. Sometimes I do wonder if he has:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
A member of my family has this. Very similar mannerisms to Naniwa.
Just a thought and nothing more.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Wow, what a joke. Koreans are such hypocrites...
User was warned for this post
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People seem to have a misconception here:
Gom generally doesn't force people to play meaningless games, as seen in the up and downs / codes S group phase etc.
But Blizzard Cup was a semi exhibition event to end the year for the GSL. If it was a serious competition, then it shouldn't have been invite based in the first place. They realised people wanted to see the Kings of Kings and held the event.
We're not saying NaNiWa should lie / act. We're saying that he should care about the event and given how minimal the cost was of him just playing a normal game.
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Finally NaNi gets what he deserves. Hopefully he learns a lesson, and grows up sometime. Watching NaNiwa always felt like watching a 12-year old child play. Finally someone does sth against such unprofessional behavior.
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On December 15 2011 01:55 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:53 aderum wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Jokes on him, guess Nestea gets the last laugh. Don't know what the big deal is, NaNiWa intentionally did what he did to make a mockery of GOM tv judging by the unprofessional posture and his bored face. not only did he waste his time but the time of spectators who were expecting to see Code S level play, wasting the time of the commentators who go out of their way to do their job who dress in suits as professional as possible. Not some bull shit rebellious crap pulled by an angsty little girl. He's probably given a totally bad name to the Swedish people you all should be angered. Those in other countries including Koreans may even believe that perhaps, Sweden accepts this kind of behavior in their country? Try to see it as a bigger picture, not just amongst the minority of sc2 gamers. For those who think that what naniwa did is acceptable then you need to face the facts that reality is different from ideal. You can say he technically didn't break "any rules" but seriously, the real world doesn't always work like that. Try the NFL and NBA, lets put a team in there who doesn't want to face the other team, have them dance around the entire game to show their rebelliousness, they aren't breaking any rules, or perhaps they are? The bigger picture is is that it's completely disrespectful to the audience and the hosts of the tournament, it's wasting peoples money, the audience and the employees who help set this shit up. Seriously, use your god damn brain, you're dealing with an asian culture who in their perspective find this very offensive. This "behavior" is accepted in Sweden, so i dont see your point. Then I guess the point is proven and this is the image that Sweden portrays, according to your word.
No, Its you who are making a big deal of not playing out a meaningless game. Thats what im saying, no one (almost) in Sweden judge someone for not trying their best in a meaningless game.
If I play a hockey tournament with my team, and at the last group stage match im facing another team that is 0-3, you will bet your ass that that match wont be played seriously. It doesnt say anything about the way Sweden want to be portrayed, it only speaks to this specific situation.
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United States23455 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:59 Kurr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 01:56 MLG_Lee wrote:
Folks, we're just becoming aware of the decision from GSL. We don't have all the facts yet and are investigating.
Please stay tuned. Thanks,
Lee clear this shitsorm my friend,for all our sakes! Yeah, imagine MLG decided to refuse to pay for Korean's flight to MLG Providence. I'm SURE GSL wouldn't have minded that right? The fact that GSL even took this decision without factoring in their partnership is even worse than I thought initially. This could literally break the exchange program.
They paid for the Koreans to go to Providence?
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Well done, Gom. A little bit harsh though. But glad to see zero tolerance on this kind of things.
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uggh this feels so wrong. Just give him a small slap on the wrist .... well i guess this could be considered one. Now nani has to work his way up again....
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On December 15 2011 01:51 Warent wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol You would not get a real game either way, you would only watch a lie - a show for the sake of the show, nothing else.
Thats a least better then one player acting like an asshole. There's plenty of way to deal with a situation like this that don't make you look like a giant douchebag.
There's a reason this game was scheduled there even if it didn't mean anything . They want to grant players that just played at least some sort of break before they play again so nobody gets an advantage because their opponent just had to play for example a hourlong match.
If you don't wanna play the game well fine talk to the people in charge before/after the game BUT don't basically tell them to fuck themselves i'm not doing this. He may not have meant it that way but there's plenty of evidence in Naniwas past to argue otherwise.
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jesus christ koreans have a stick up their ass. its really not even a big deal, it was a pointless game and naniwa had already invested so much time and energy as it was. this is such a huge overreaction its ridiculous
well, at least this news has saved me 100 bucks, no way im going to support a tournament that pulls this kind of crap.
User was temp banned for this post.
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am i the only one here who think naniwa should have had plenty of motivation to play seriously vs nestea?
sure theres no money involved, but if I were playing i dont want be be remembered as the guy who got pwned and went out in the group with 0-4, not to mention beating nestea (again) will give him more bragging rights
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On December 15 2011 01:54 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely.
how can anyone truly mean this?
He threw a game that didn't matter - How is it reasonable to deny him a code-S spot he clearly earned from MLG (and I remember vividly how commentators, twitter-posts etc. stated that nani has won a Code-S spot so don't try and tell me otherwise, because this was one of the highlights of that MLG for me - Nani getting into Code-S), to totally call him out and to trashtalk about him and even publish statements from other totally close-minded coaches from the KeSpa-era that publicly shit on Nani. Because he threw a game that didn't matter?
Was it stupid by Nani? Yes.
Was it a slap in the face to his fans? Yes.
But the fact is, that it's understandable due to the stupid format, his emotional status and there is no clear ruling that allows GSL to deny his Code-S spot.
By the logic ppl like you apply, you should be able to put ppl in Prison that forgot to buy you a birthday-present.... -.-°
Cuz thats also disappointing to you and there is no rule against it, so you can apply any punishment you feel is accurate; just totally arbitrary and because you can....
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On December 15 2011 02:00 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:56 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 Shalaiyn wrote:On December 15 2011 01:46 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Fjodorov wrote:
The main point here is that Naniwa is being punished for breaking a rule that doesnt exist. Its simply unprofessional practice by GOM. match fixing is a rule that doesn't exist now? Don't talk about terms you obviously have no idea about what they mean. Match fix: occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result. tell me which part of Naniwa's action was not match fixing Naniwa wasn't going to throw the match if he won the other matchs or if nestea won the other matchs? Also this is more to just throwing a match not match fixing at all.
throwing a match is match fixing...
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On December 15 2011 02:00 kochanfe wrote:
Wow, what a joke. Koreans are such hypocrites...
in what way
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On December 15 2011 02:00 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:59 Kurr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 01:56 MLG_Lee wrote:
Folks, we're just becoming aware of the decision from GSL. We don't have all the facts yet and are investigating.
Please stay tuned. Thanks,
Lee clear this shitsorm my friend,for all our sakes! Yeah, imagine MLG decided to refuse to pay for Korean's flight to MLG Providence. I'm SURE GSL wouldn't have minded that right? The fact that GSL even took this decision without factoring in their partnership is even worse than I thought initially. This could literally break the exchange program. They paid for the Koreans to go to Providence?
Yeps MLG pay all cost for the koreans players from the exchange program
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On December 15 2011 01:53 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:42 Avril_Lavigne wrote:
Jokes on him, guess Nestea gets the last laugh. Don't know what the big deal is, NaNiWa intentionally did what he did to make a mockery of GOM tv judging by the unprofessional posture and his bored face. not only did he waste his time but the time of spectators who were expecting to see Code S level play, wasting the time of the commentators who go out of their way to do their job who dress in suits as professional as possible. Not some bull shit rebellious crap pulled by an angsty little girl. He's probably given a totally bad name to the Swedish people you all should be angered. Those in other countries including Koreans may even believe that perhaps, Sweden accepts this kind of behavior in their country? Try to see it as a bigger picture, not just amongst the minority of sc2 gamers. For those who think that what naniwa did is acceptable then you need to face the facts that reality is different from ideal. You can say he technically didn't break "any rules" but seriously, the real world doesn't always work like that. Try the NFL and NBA, lets put a team in there who doesn't want to face the other team, have them dance around the entire game to show their rebelliousness, they aren't breaking any rules, or perhaps they are? The bigger picture is is that it's completely disrespectful to the audience and the hosts of the tournament, it's wasting peoples money, the audience and the employees who help set this shit up. Seriously, use your god damn brain, you're dealing with an asian culture who in their perspective find this very offensive. This "behavior" is accepted in Sweden, so i dont see your point.
Neither did naniwa, now he's out of Code S.
Problem much?
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On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player
I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world.
Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions?
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Ok first off since everyone is going into other sports, in the NFL usually when a team has lost the game (its a blow out) they will try to end the game by running the ball. This is obviously not trying to win as being down 20 points is not recovered from running the ball with little time left. Near the end of the season when guaranteed playoffs or home-field advantage teams have no incentive to win (none at all), this leads to most if not all first-string(starting) players getting the day off (again not trying to win).
In my opinion GOM should not take away Naniwa's Code S spot. It in my opinion is a slap in the face to the "League Exchange" where I believe that "abusive behavior" rule was taken to the most extreme you can possibly take a rule in applying it to something it doesn't apply to. The point of this was GOM feeling pressure from the Korean culture and populace to do something about Naniwa "throwing" a game, even though there is no specific rule and what Naniwa did wasn't illegal. This shows that if GOM doesn't like you, or doesn't like something you did they can take whatever action they want regardless of any rules or agreements
tl;dr
Other sports do this
IMO GOM reacted to pressure and not to a rule being broken
GOM set precedent if they don't like what you did can do whatever they want
Naniwa should be awarded the Code S spot he rightfully earned
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EPT
