While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
On December 14 2011 23:59 Breavman wrote: It's funny how the probe rush is somehow an insult to korean professionalism and honour. I seem to remember how the korean pros would throw games in pretty much every WCG BW to manipulate the bracket and avoid facing each other, sometimes in an obvious way. And those were not meaningless games, it actually affected other players in the tournament.
it's not about probe rush, it's just that naniwa showed that he completelly does not care about the game. Have you seen what he was doing when he probe rushed?
You don't have to care at all times and certainly not in a game like that.
However it could have been done in a more appropriate manner, i.e. just typing gg and leaving right away
Things like this need punishment so the people that agree with his atitude understand that this isn't acceptable. If you don't want to play, at least talk with the organizers or at least 6 pool/4 gate. No need to do this stupid show, everyone knows that worker rush is defendable even by me, so it's offensive, of course. If you can't dialogue about what you disagree in the tournament beforehand and just do your "workaround" with things like this, you deserve to not be called a professional, you are not. You are a good player that loves prize pools (or first places, whatever).
This is about living in society, you have to do things that you don't like for others sake occasionaly, everyone does and then you need to be smart about that, you can 4 gate indeed, you can even win in a normal game with a 4gate, that's why it's ok to do it. If you can't even do this, oh, that's terrible sad, I wish I could play against Nestea again and again, even if I know that I will lose and even if I know I won't win anything if I actually win. As I actually do my best on ladder just for fun, I don't intend to being a progamer. Well, if playing for fun is that hard for you, then I hope to not see you in code S indeed.
well nani lost his gsl spot with bad behaviour in a non gsl tournament.. lets see if they ban demuslim for the same reason now.. even tho demuslim did something WAY worse, because he did this in a game that matters (can be a bit compared with cocas matchfixing).. i dont want demu kicked out, but wont it be reasonable for them to not give him an invite?!
lol when was this from?
1. Unless I am mistaken he actually talked to the admins before it saying that he wouldn't be able to make it to the tourney and they were ok with it.
2. Coca's "matchfixing" was similar to naniwa's, considering that Coca had nothing to gain from winning that match. It was a lower round of a tournament where you could win a code A spot - not exactly something a code S player is after.
On December 15 2011 00:00 Nekovivie wrote: The bias on these forums is pretty crazy lately, but then again I guess its to be expected.
If a Korean had done this, and got his Code S seed taken away, majority opinion on here would likely be it's deserved, and he should have acted professionally.
But because its a foreigner..
agreed. If a korean gamer had done the same thing, he would be kicked out of his team and banned for gsl,for a year, etc.
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL.
Keep reading and you'll find this
GSL Pro Players Competing on the MLG Pro Circuit
-MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition. -These players will be placed directly into the Championship Pools, one into each Pool. -Their placement in the Pools will be determined by their GSL rank. -All travel and accomodation expenses for these players will be provided by MLG. -For MLG Columbus, we will also be inviting a player from the CSN tournament, currently in progress. This player will be seeded into the Open Bracket, and their travel and accomodation expenses will be covered by CSN.
Did that also happen in Providence? No. So there was no MLG-GSL exchange in Providence.
How can so many people miss this? You'd know just from reading it that it is impossible to apply it to providence since there are no championship pools,
Scroll to bottom, Automatic Loss Rule, 3rd sentence. Now argument for Naniwa having broken that rule. "Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience."
Sending probes to Nestea is a act of violence? Damn, glad that he didn't build a zealot in that case!
On December 14 2011 23:53 DMTsyncope wrote: Why do people keep saying that there was nothing on the line for Naniwa?
As far as i know he had 0 wins before going into that match against NesTea, i would give my absolute best to win it so i wouldnt finish the tournament with 0 wins.
You lose 3 very close games in a row. Your goal was to win the tournament. You now have to face another player in the group stages in a game that would have zero bearing whatsoever on whether you advance in the tournament or not, because you're already eliminated. You are livid with yourself because you've adopted the correct improvement mentality and recognise that it was your fault alone that you lost those games because you had made mistakes in your play despite training 12 hours a day on nullifying these flaws.
That's right, because of your mistakes, not because of the typical lower league whines of imbalance having credibility such as "Marines OP", "Colossus OP", "EMP is overpowered" and whatnot. No, you lost because of you.
What would you do?
Well since I agreed to play 4 games and I'm not a damn childish immature brat so I'd actually play the game.
You agree to do something, which was nearly 100% likely that it was legally agreed to, you do it. This is the real world. You don't say "Oh well I am not in the mood to do this," and just quit.
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A. At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL.
Yeah that seems very wierd, either MLG lied or made an error while writing that. Or they and GOM are just trying to make the punishment seem less harsh since so many disagree about it.
It doesn't matter. They technically did award him the code S spot and he was placed into pools and stuff, but they also reserve the right to take that spot away from him.
On December 15 2011 00:00 Nekovivie wrote: The bias on these forums is pretty crazy lately, but then again I guess its to be expected.
If a Korean had done this, and got his Code S seed taken away, majority opinion on here would likely be it's deserved, and he should have acted professionally.
But because its a foreigner..
You're just wrong. There are polls with 50/50 results and a lot of people thought the punishment of Coca was to harsh. So, nothing to do with Naniwa being a foreigner. Ofc there is more hype about it here on TL because Naniwa has way more fans and haters then a random korean pro.
I wonder if his illegal replay watching at MLG played into this as well. This guy can't seem to help himself, he's either just braindead, or wants to be perceived in this way.
I completely agree with GomTV revoking Naniwa's Code S. He deserved it. If you dedicate yourself to something like SC2, then you better expect for every game to be played out completely.
Does Naniwa just throw games because they don't matter on ladder or in practice? Of course not. So why should he be allowed to do it in a televised game that people are paying for?
At least he apologized though. I still agree with GomTV's punishment, and I even think it wasn't harsh enough. It's becoming p apparent that Naniwa is still pretty immature, and has some thinking to do before he continues playing in tournaments.
On December 14 2011 23:58 MasterKush wrote: After reading this thread, It now makes sense why Naniwa heaped praise and thanks onto his swedish fans in that UpCloseGamers video interview he did before this all happened. You guys are getting quite ridiculous with the bias you're showing over this. If you don't want to watch GSL anymore, then don't, but can you please please stop pretending like you make up 30% of their subscribers and they can't survive without you watching.
For the Naniwa defenders, I just want you to think about this. If any of you have ever held down a successful job/career (and I would suspect the majority of you have), then can you honestly look me in the eye (yes, through the monitor) and tell me that what he did was professional?
We understand that the game vs. Nestea was not "important" in the sense of him moving through the tournament. We get it, and yes, perhaps more insight should be taken in future events to keep the potential for these games to happen to a minimum. However, as a "Professional Gamer" it is your duty to play out the games and to put on a show for your fans and any spectators/viewers. This is without the complications of playing for/representing a team or organisation. Naniwa doesn't play for himself, he doesn't fund his trips to all of these events out of his own pocket and without Quantic he wouldn't even be there for the chance to win a single dollar in prize money.
For him to think he is so important that he doesn't need to show his "full skill" because he isnt "motivated enough" is just a ridiculously childish statement to come out with. If people in other careers made such comments/actions, they'd lose their job. No questions asked.
What the GSL have done, is to lay down a future stance that if any other player even gets the notion of pulling some gross shit like this, they will forget it pretty quickly or face the same consequences. Honestly, I think that the majority of events throughout this year have actually been pretty leanient, and it's got to the stage where some players think they can walk on water with no repercussions.
Not anymore. I fully support the decision you have taken on this matter GSL, and I look forward to supporting your brand throughout 2012.
im actually surprised by the amount of Swedes who defend Naniwa, i dont see how anybody could defend such a blatant lack of sportsmanship. reminds me of the first barcraft in Stockholm when some people were booing DRG at the finals of DH Valencia and yelling 'go Sweden' unironically. Its just akward... its not about countries, its about the game..
On December 14 2011 23:32 AJTeal wrote: It truly saddens me to see what a HUGE step back e-sports has taken today. This is like the reseat that shows that E-sports will NEVER EVER grow into a real sport. So unprofessional banning someone for no reason just to let a player like IdrA in because EG has payed gomTV. And now, everyone suddenly changes their mind (seeing as idra has a huge fanbase, he's got the entire America behind him) and thinks this is a good decision just because IdrA got Naniwa's spot. It's like HuK said. People are always quick to say "this is killing e-sports". I think this is the first time you can legitimately say, this IS killing e-sports. Cheating and unprofessionalism- GomTV right there.
The only thing that showed that Esports cant be taken seriously, is having what Naniwa did happen on live TV. Its embarrasing. If you did this as a professional anything, you would be blacklisted the hell out of the profession. Supporting Naniwas behaviour is completely counterproductive to what seems to be your goal, wnating Esports to be taken seriously.
No not at all...when a basketball game is over the players stop trying and just dribble the ball and walk around for the last 20 seconds. Should they be banned for giving up when the outcome is clear? No, it is ridiculous.
Thats so different as they have given their all for the entire game and usually this is preceeded by the fans either booing or just outright leaving the stadium early, en masse, in order to avoid the last 20 seconds of foul-timeout-foul-timeout.
nani never even took the tipoff, he kicked the other center in the balls, hurled the basketball into the crowd, flipped off the refs and his team and said "fuck you!"
No, this doesn't work. You can't compare an individual game of basketball to an individual game of Starcraft. This WAS the last 20 seconds of the match - Naniwa had already played his heart out, AND lost, and he was done. Nestea, same thing. If this were a game of basketball, it would be where both teams are somehow losing and neither can possibly win, so the one player shoots an air-ball and walks off the court as the buzzer sounds. The thing is, this simply hasn't happened in Sc2 before where someone has acted in (as far as basketball goes, anyway) completely normal fashion. This whole controversy just proves the difference between e-sports and sports - in sports. players giving up and leaving is normal. In e-sports, apparently it's the end of the world, or at least it's the end of that player's chances of performing in the league.
On December 14 2011 23:59 Breavman wrote: It's funny how the probe rush is somehow an insult to korean professionalism and honour. I seem to remember how the korean pros would throw games in pretty much every WCG BW to manipulate the bracket and avoid facing each other, sometimes in an obvious way. And those were not meaningless games, it actually affected other players in the tournament.
it's not about probe rush, it's just that naniwa showed that he completelly does not care about the game. Have you seen what he was doing when he probe rushed?
I agree that it looked worse this time, but not caring is still better than cheating in my book.
What bothers me is that Naniwa obviously knew that throwing the game was not cool - since he would have just instantly gg-d if he would have thought that it was ok.
Now I understand that he wouldn't want to reveal tactics that he worked on and which could jeopardize future results, but why not treat it like a streamed ladder match and do some cookie-cutter all-in that may actually work? 7 gate +2 blink timing, 4 gate, proxy 2 gate, whatever.
By not leaving instantly or doing something remotely valid, he basically sent a message to gom, his fans, his sponsors and his opponent - that he doesn't care.
EPT
