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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 00:06 ReboundEU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:04 lynxdaftpunk wrote:On December 14 2011 18:39 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Yeah it's pretty disgusting...
But the people who are glad that it happened are just plain pathetic. Agreed. Player with such a lame ass attitude don't belong in gsl. U do know what u agreed to, before stating your opinion, right? just checking.... @Topic....to harsh WAY to harsh...bias even
Wrong quotation, buddy. Fixed now, thank you.
And on that:
On December 14 2011 18:39 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Yeah it's pretty disgusting...
But the people who are glad that it happened are just plain pathetic.
Disargeed. I don't wanna see such a lame behaviour in code S, thank you very much.
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That seems overly harsh. Just my 2 cents.
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On December 15 2011 00:08 Fission wrote:
Anybody asking for a refund because of this should get out and stay out.
Anybody not asking for a refund because of this should get out and stay out.
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Good decision 
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On December 15 2011 00:03 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:55 XRaDiiX wrote:I thought people should see this good post from someone earlier shows how GomTV is picking favourites here and displaying double standards. Why does NaNiwa get banned for something that there wasn't even a definite rule on banning people for probe rushes it's not about him winning or losing with it and to boot the game didn't have any relevance whether he won or lost. He was obviously on tilt/angry after playing 3 games that he almost won. So NaNiwa had no reason to play his best in the last game except for showmanship; He even said he was sorry for it in his interview. Etc Completely unprofessional actions from GomTV On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment"GSL is going to lose a lot of viewers because of this wrongful action they have taken against NaNiwa we have already seen it by how many people said they will not buy subscriptions in this thread... 1)I'm not going to bother about ceremonies. 2)GOM has no control over MLG. 3)game was controversial, but coincidentally his games seemed off after that incident, clearly hes got some issues of his own again GOM had no control. 4)The team owned him before GOM did. as for Chae's tweet though, completely out of line, at least he didn't call him worse than a child molester like the KT coach did to Savior.
That was a classic quote. Not to derail the topic into a discussion about sAviOr but clearly the Korean audience feel very strongly about issues like BM, match fixing, throwing games, sticking to the written rules etc. Why else would KeSPA rigorously enforce their rules down to every minute detail, such as when they've outright disqualified players for a trivial typo when typing "pp" or "gg", and why else would the Korean public demonise sAviOr and other match fixers.
But on the note of this, I think it was utterly wrong of them to disqualify NaNiwa when other similar offences have been punished less harshly, plus the rule of "offending the audience" was quite ambiguous, and leads to a greater cultural debate.
A lot of the Korean audience probably feel strongly about the lack of "professionalism" on NaNiwa's part but much of the international audience seem to have sympathised with him based on the poll results on here.
My attitude is that if NaNiwa wanted to throw games, it's his loss, not that there was really much loss anyway apart from losing to NesTea, somebody whom he had made a rivalry with in MLG. The fact that GOMTV had to give him such a harsh sanction for something so trivial is terrible and just shows their bias against foreigners.
I haven't really watched GSL anyway due to various reasons. All I can say is that I am definitely not watching it now. They don't deserve my time or ESPORTS pound sterling thanks to this. And my attitude towards the GSL will remain as such until they return NaNiwa's Code S seed and apologise for so butt-fuckingly harsh a sanction. This is almost on a KeSPA level of harshness.
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On December 14 2011 23:33 xbankx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:29 eshlow wrote:On December 14 2011 23:25 SnowandLights wrote:
Well it was fun while it lasted GOM. I'm out! Same. I can't support this decision. Professionals in other sports get fined or reprimanded for unprofessional behavior. They don't get suspended or revoked from their ability to play the game unless it's a multiple time offense. They do, Suh a football players in US was suspended for 2 games for stomping a player's arm. I can name a lot more. You want a list of how long?
This analogy makes no sense at all.
Suh was suspended for violent behaviors of which there are established rules where you can get ejected from the game and suspended. Similarly, other football analogies of players getting suspended are for PEDs of which there are established rules against, or James Harrison who is a head hunter who keeps breaking the rules even after being fined multiple times.
Naniwa is revoked from his ability to play the game even though there are no rules against throwing games.
There's no doubt I think it was blatantly unprofessional, but I don't think it's the right decision to revoke his ability to play the game.
It would have honestly been better if they made him to go a korean cultural sensitivity class before awarding him the code S spot instead of revoking it. Either that or send him to a cultural sensitivity class and a class on professionalism.
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On December 15 2011 00:08 Rikiya wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:05 dolvlo wrote:
So GOM is backing out of their agreement with the MLG to give the highest placed player at MLG providence a Code S spot. What a joke of a tournament. The agreement wasn't applied to Providence, It has been said many times in this thread with links.
Show me a link then? All I've seen people saying this without providing any evidence.
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Huh, I guess that game was important after all.
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On December 15 2011 00:10 price wrote:
Naniwa gets this shit for a probe rush when we had to endure entire GSL seasons of bitbybit nonsense
This is sooooooo spot on if you are a true SC2 skill fan!
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On December 15 2011 00:10 price wrote:
Naniwa gets this shit for a probe rush when we had to endure entire GSL seasons of bitbybit nonsense
Bit by bit can actually win (some) games
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On December 15 2011 00:09 SaYyId wrote:It's sad that almost every thread in TL about Nani end up locked 
Its called a forum not a "gsl/naniwa argument session"
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On December 15 2011 00:08 4ZakeN87 wrote:
Okey this topic is getting me seriously pissed. First every native English speaking person that uses his better English as an argument for his superior intellect should be ashamed of himself. To boast about talking your native language is like being proud of your ability to walk. Do you laugh at persons in wheel chairs as well? Seriously, fucking sad.
Secondly the fact that I cannot say something because I am Swedish and thus “Swedish retard FANBOY” makes me want to choke someone. Because if HuK had done this I would be all for it.
“Fuck yeah, ban that fucking Canadian 4life!”. Or maybe not? Maybe I don’t like it because it is unfair?
The only reason Naniwa got banned was because he did this in Korea and secondly he did something that players do all the time just in a more obvious way. Naniwa got banned for doing a probe rush instead of a cannon rush. I don’t think that is a good reason to get banned.
The only error Naniwa did was not realizing that the Koreans would react this way, he could have forfeited 2 min later in a less obvious way and saved himself from this.
If you think Naniwa should be banned from GSL then you should mail Assembly and Dreamhack to ban Stephano, cause he has done the same twice. Shouldn’t even start talking about IdrA, you get banned for things that might be seen as disrespectful to other players? Hell IdrA should get a global ban from SC2 for life.
I don't get why people can't tell the difference between a-moving all your probes and letting go of your mouse / keyboard and doing a quick high risk but high reward all in like a cannon rush / 4 gate.
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On December 15 2011 00:09 zanmat0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:06 hoby2000 wrote:
I still agree with GomTV's punishment, and I even think it wasn't harsh enough. What would you suggest be done to punish him further? I'm thinking maybe hanged, drawn and quartered through the streets of Seoul.
He was not tar and feathered, i am disappoint.
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On December 15 2011 00:10 Uracil wrote:
Since the comparison to other sports leagues is here i would ask:
Which professional sport league would make such a decission over night without a proper hearing and talk to the involved people.
Sooooooo well said.... this just shows u how eagerly they were waiting in a dark corner.....hoping..even praying that he does something remotely wrong..so they can avenge their demi-god Nestea.
"Kill first..judge later" ...sounds familiar?...think ..oh...about 500years ago
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Naniwa has been too rude for too long.. shows no respect for almost any tournament.. NASL.. MLG.. and now GOMTV.. good thing that gomtv is the first to take action, else he would just keep doing this nonsense over and over...
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On December 15 2011 00:09 zanmat0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:06 hoby2000 wrote:
I still agree with GomTV's punishment, and I even think it wasn't harsh enough. What would you suggest be done to punish him further? I'm thinking maybe hanged, drawn and quartered through the streets of Seoul.
Something like banning him for 1-2 seasons of GSL.
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Guess they had to set an example so it wouldn't happen again.
Still find it absolutely retarded that NaNiWa gets punished for a gigantic flaw in GOM's tournament system.
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Just make it seem like some kind of shady business. They didn't like what he did and removed him, without backing up properly with pre-written rules. Naniwa didn't mean to offend, and they should know that it's an incredibly stupid system, forcing a game with no meaning other than a spontanous showmatch. Either way, the chance of that being played near it's full potential is not even close... And who cares if he worker rushed? He at least did something, he didn't just concede his game at the first second. I really don't see how gom's actions are justifiable. While they are at it, please remove 6 pool aswell or any scv-marine all-in. Really lost respect for gom
However, Naniwa needs to actually grow up aswell though. He brings drama wherever he goes, because he doesn't understand what he's not supposed to do. He is unproffesional in many aspects, but this is nothing compared to what he did at MLG, writing "joke tournament". When will he ever realize that teams won't want him, and he wont get invited to tournaments if he's considered being a problem. In a way, i hope this is a wake-up call for Naniwa, since he desperately needs to grow up mentally when it comes to most things, but i also hope he'll stick with sc2 and get over it.
Basically, Nani needs to act more proffessional, and so does GOM. Why would they go on and call progamers names? It's pathetic. Also even worse, inviting Idra to take Nani's spot, when he would do the same and even worse... Also consider in what condition he left GSL last time. I don't get this..
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On December 15 2011 00:03 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:59 mordk wrote:On December 14 2011 23:55 XRaDiiX wrote:I thought people should see this good post from someone earlier shows how GomTV is picking favourites here and displaying double standards. Why does NaNiwa get banned for something that there wasn't even a definite rule on banning people for probe rushes it's not about him winning or losing with it and to boot the game didn't have any relevance whether he won or lost. He was obviously on tilt/angry after playing 3 games that he almost won. So NaNiwa had no reason to play his best in the last game except for showmanship; He even said he was sorry for it in his interview. Etc Completely unprofessional actions from GomTV On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples? "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" 1.-*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more. Ridiculous. Meant to please the audience, there's nothing in common between these and Nani's "play" yesterday. 2.-*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over. Same thing. Nothing to see here 3.-*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around. Speculative, unfounded, and most likely false. 4.-*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything? No they haven't so, like you say, it's likely GOM would have done something. Can't say for certain though, so again, pure speculation. So how exactly is rushing with probes worse than BM'ing your opponent?
You're being short sighted... you need to separate 2 things:
-Koreans feel offended by this behaviour because they believe competition involves a degree of honor and all that. That's their culture and it's fine (I kind of agree on this point, but I'm not as strict about it). NesTea was probably dissapointed, some fans (me, for example) were dissapointed, the whole point of the tournament (showmatches, no matter if there's money involved, this cup is intended as a "celebration of starcraft") was mocked at.
-Rushing with probes in this situation, context, and manner (IE, not a valid strategy, since he just wanted to lose), is in violation of what nani was being paid to do, to participate in the tournament and play every match out. Why play every match? You could ask, the answer is that the format is laid down to you before the tournament starts. If nani didn't agree with the possibility of meaningless matches, he could have talked to GOM about it, or plainly rejected the invitation. By entering the tournament, he agrees and validates the format, no matter how flawed it could be. There are other solutions as well, he could have forfeited before the match started (some people say he tried, I haven't seen any evidence to support that)
By keeping this two things in mind, it becomes very evident why GOM went with this punishment. First of all, he denied customers of a match, he "disgraced" his opponent, and he mocked the tournament structure (keep in mind this is interpretating facts, most likely what happened here). Second, GOM has a duty as an entertainment provider towards its customers. Korean customers would have felt insulted if GOM had done nothing.
Personally, I think the punishment is excessive, particularly considering things like MC's booth bashing (which I agree was bad), which means there's some inconsistency at play too, but overall, I think GOM is right to "punish" (Disregarding the whole MLG thing and whether his spot was secured or not) nani, considering all the facts.
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On December 15 2011 00:10 ClassyMcderp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 23:53 DMTsyncope wrote:
Why do people keep saying that there was nothing on the line for Naniwa?
As far as i know he had 0 wins before going into that match against NesTea, i would give my absolute best to win it so i wouldnt finish the tournament with 0 wins.
Ooooohhh, that changes everything!
Living up to your name. In fact, looking through the thread you see that this opinion is exacerbated by a large number of other incentives to win (just not winning the tournament).
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EPT
