Terrans vanishing from the ladder. - Page 28

On December 15 2011 00:32 nvrs wrote:
In both of the other matchups a single micro mistake and your army is no more.

his is how every MU works. If P misses FFs or gets flanked, their army is gone. If Z overextends or doesn't time an attack well, their gas-heavy units evaporate, and the game is over.

On December 15 2011 00:44 Dfgj wrote:

This is how every MU works. If P misses FFs or gets flanked, their army is gone. If Z overextends or doesn't time an attack well, their gas-heavy units evaporate, and the game is over.

On December 15 2011 00:32 nvrs wrote:
boy, how much have i wanted to start a similar thread for the past weeks...
I was a low diamond Terran for about a year (started as platinum), playing somewhere between 10 to 15 ladder games a week until recently when i decided to improve and get to masters.
So first off all i decided to play a lot more matches and to stop 1-1-1 vs toss which gave me a good win percentage but obviously was not helping me improve. But then all Ts vs which i had a very good win percentage (70%+) were gone from the ladder and all of a sudden i was started getting matched against an endless stream of Protosses, sometimes 7-8 in a row.
The results were a demotion to platinum and after 100 games i see from sc2 ranks 38 vs Zerg, 52 vs Protoss and the rest vs Terran, out of which i have won all but 1.
I lost over 40 games to protoss to various death ball configurations and also a lot of cheesy all ins (i thought 3-4 bunkers would do the trick but no, if he has enough FF 4 bunkers are not enough).
You may say that i am a noob and i deserved that cause i was going 1-1-1 every match but it really feels like i am loosing too lesser players, with half the APM (i have around 100 on the new patch) and no multitasking at all. They just defend an initial push and if i fail to do perfect drops i get swarmed by a zealot line that has support by either archons and HTs or Colossi. The main problem is zealots though, 20 zealots in the front are so difficult to handle, you must stutter step with 250 apm while keeping an eye for storm or colossi while he a moves and nurses his expensive units.
This sounds like a whine, i don't care, i feel that in order to win this mu my opponent needs to be simply a worse player.
And TvZ is fine and extremely fun, although Metalopolis and Antiga Shipyard are very muta-friendly.
Finally I love TvT, i think its the only matchup where if my army evaporates suddendly and the opponent didnt loose his i made a huge blunder, like moving into a siege line etc. In both of the other matchups a single micro mistake and your army is no more.

On December 15 2011 01:00 Wegandi wrote:


I feel that if the game gets past 12 minutes ish in TvP you are severely behind because once Protoss can get to HT/Colo/Archon/Chargelot, you are in a position which is just terrible. I regularly feel like I play so much better than the Protoss players I face, but if I just ever engage head on with their army it just feels like the Terran army has 20 pop worth of supply, and that's with me having 320+ APM during the fights, and the Protoss having half that if even that much. My macro, multi-task, micro, and pretty much all other mechanics are superior, and it feels like I am even, or just behind. My TvZ is quite good (75-80%) win rate, and my TvT is about 65%, but ..... TvP I am just at a loss for words (30% ish).

Even with memorizing all the timings for the first 10 minutes for all the Protoss builds, and with good scouting, I find that my best chances of victory rely on cheese timings (IE; marine/tank stim/siege, 1-1-1, etc.). With more Protosses going Warp Prism that also adds another dimension you have to watch for on top of the all the other factors you have to take into account.

Honestly, I think that engaging the Protoss deathball is suicide with any Terran composition. The MU will probably rely on harass / contain / abusing mistake of deathball positioning.

Having to micro ghosts/vikings/stutter step/macro/split vs storm/colo/etc. against an army the Protoss has to 1a Zealot/Archon/Stalker/baby sit 1A Colo and then use HT to storm...It just feels like the Terran has to massively outplay the Protoss opponent just to have an even footing/chance. Even worse when you have to make that decision to either make Medivac or Viking...painful.

On December 15 2011 00:48 Nyxisto wrote:
Well thats not true, reason why: Protoss can pull out of trouble with forcefields in nearly every situation. If a protoss army is caught in a bad spot, you can forcefield the enemy army away from yours and escape, For terran its pretty much the other way around, if a terran army is caught in a bad spot by toss, they can stop them from fleeing by forcefields and theyll lose nearly their whole army.
And yeah if you miss FF, your army should be gone, because its the only skill gateway units have ( besides shield). Not throwing ffs down is like not stimming once in the whole fight. And don't tell me you need gosu micro to retreat with ffs, u basically just throw a bunch down between you and your enemy and thats it.


Besides that protoss has the opportunity to warp in units behind, which may turn the situation. Cause terran units need to walk over the whole map their reinforcement is much weaker. So for TvP your statement isn't true.
And for Zerg it may only be true if they lose like 10 broodlords at once. In early and mid game zerg is basically designed to to throw their army away a dozen times. So basically in ZvX your statement may only be true for the very and lategame, and even then its not an autoloss, just if P or T don't loose anything else.

On December 15 2011 00:58 nvrs wrote:
edit: how many times have i lost by microing very well, killing a protoss deathball only to arrive at their expansion-base with a red army (from engagement + stimming) and get treated by 20 freshly warped in zealots?
On the other hand, if i loose my army, by the time he gets to my expo(s) i ll have no army, unless i had army their in the first place as a defense, but then you are not fighting the first battle with your whole army...