EPTTerrans vanishing from the ladder. - Page 27
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joopajoo
Finland67 Posts
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Gurafity
Luxembourg20 Posts
Recently I tried mech against P adding few ghosts to EMP immortals, and it's not that bad, because they only know MMM. Making hellions to harass/drop and contain while tanks destroy zealots is fun and thors have huge DPS against stalkers and collosus. | ||
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
With terran, if you don't have very good micro, you're dead. D E A D. While with protoss you need a decent amount, and with zerg you need little to no micro. Hell, I still see even pro zergs more than 1 year after the game's release A-move their infestors with their other units and watch them bump into stalkers and zealots and die. I'll try to ilustrate my point through this example: Think of a maxed Protoss vs maxed Terran late game army. Now they both A-move into each other. What's the result?  ))))) Yeah.. the protoss will lose sth like 7-8 zealots and 1-2 collosus and the terran's entire army will be wiped out in less than 10 seconds.Same thing will happen with banes vs unmicroed marines etc. It's just with terran you need to do a lot more to be able to compete. Sure, at the highest level the game is balanced, so that makes it balanced overall, but the amount of effort you need to put with terran when you're not at the highest level (and above a very low level obviously) is bigger. | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:45 zatic wrote: Anything below Masters. Maybe the Diamond / Master line is kind of blurry, but certainly anything mid Diamond and below. It's definitely due to my different levels of understanding the matchup, but at my low Diamond level, I have an easy time in zvp, zvz is fine, and zvt is hard. | ||
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Onox
United States1072 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:31 Gurafity wrote: I'm winning like 80% of my games against T and Z, but like 30% vsP, and, of course, with 1-1-1 =D. TvP is just horrible for me. I'm plat and I can't deal with Viking+Ghost+Splitting+Stim+... even with 170 apm spike =/ Recently I tried mech against P adding few ghosts to EMP immortals, and it's not that bad, because they only know MMM. Making hellions to harass/drop and contain while tanks destroy zealots is fun and thors have huge DPS against stalkers and collosus. 2rax(transition into 111) or 111 every tvp like me... :D But yeah, micro is usually my worst suit but I have gotten far better! | ||
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debasers
737 Posts
By hard, I don't mean imbalanced (TvT duh) but actually being very demanding. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On December 14 2011 23:44 THM wrote: I think it's because terran is the hardest race to play at a level that is not GM+. With terran, if you don't have very good micro, you're dead. D E A D. While with protoss you need a decent amount, and with zerg you need little to no micro. Hell, I still see even pro zergs more than 1 year after the game's release A-move their infestors with their other units and watch them bump into stalkers and zealots and die. I'll try to ilustrate my point through this example: Think of a maxed Protoss vs maxed Terran late game army. Now they both A-move into each other. What's the result? ))))) Yeah.. the protoss will lose sth like 7-8 zealots and 1-2 collosus and the terran's entire army will be wiped out in less than 10 seconds.Same thing will happen with banes vs unmicroed marines etc. It's just with terran you need to do a lot more to be able to compete. Sure, at the highest level the game is balanced, so that makes it balanced overall, but the amount of effort you need to put with terran when you're not at the highest level (and above a very low level obviously) is bigger. I'm gonna agree and disagree, you're not accounting for everything macro, multitask, decision making, and scouting wise that also take skill. Terran micro is really hard, yes, but in TvZ it's just as hard for the Zerg at that level due to how easily they can die/get behind with improper scouting, dealing with drops, etc. I play random so I can sort of see both sides of the issues, and I'm gonna say part of it is due to TvP. People still haven't figured out exactly what to do vs. Toss and it's REALLY hard to play against a decent Toss without really good micro. The match-up is equally difficult at that level until the protoss gets a really strong army and then it becomes really hard for a diamond terran to beat a diamond toss, and losses to Protoss (at least to me) just feel frustrating as it feels like you can sometimes just get steamrolled by their 200/200 army due to a little bit of mis-micro, and colossus and sentries are the most annoying units to lose to imo. That and the fact that A LOT of people picked terran early on because it was OP and they may be going to the race they feel is strongest or just back to the race they wanted to play at the beginning. On December 14 2011 23:48 debasers wrote: I play Terran and the Hardness of all the terran matchups, expecially TvZ and TvT, can get kind of excrutianting if you are trying just to play for fun. By hard, I don't mean imbalanced (TvT duh) but actually being very demanding. Oh, I forgot to mention this! TvT is really long, TvZ is often really long, and TvP has been getting there. A lot of people don't like the multitask and such that you need to play these 3 races and a lot of people I know picked Zerg or Toss because they have a quick micro-based match-up (among other things) while they found TvT to be "boring." Personally, TvT is my favorite match-up, but a lot of people dislike the positional game. | ||
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
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Tennet
United States1458 Posts
I know many people say mech doesn't work TvP, but are we doing it right? I know when HotS comes around mech will be functional, but what can we do now to improve our ability to mech in TvP? | ||
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shishy
United States115 Posts
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Cramsy
Australia1100 Posts
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
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Genie1
Canada333 Posts
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:18 Swwww wrote: Blizzard 'balances' for the very top of GSL -> game becomes less balanced at lower leagues inc. GM -> people stop playing terran since its underpowered -> terrans disappear from ladder. Seems pretty simple to me! I dont think that, at lower lvls terran is still the easiest race to play, because Mules, and you got it already from the campaign. I just think people are slowly getting bored, cause at the beginning alot of people played terran. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
For instance, yes, marauders counter zealots if you perform perfect kite micro. When they stand still they get absolutely destroyed. Hellions counter zerglings with good micro, when they stand still they get destroyed. Marines with perfect splitting can counter banelings, when they stand still they get destroyed. Tanks can counter any Zerg unit on land, caught unsieged they get destroyed. Unfortunately Korean Code S level Terrans possess this ability to micro perfectly AND keep macro'ing at the same time, whereas Platinum, Diamond and Masters Terrans don't have those mechanics at all. | ||
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humbre
353 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:09 Saechiis wrote: I really feel it revolves around Terran's dependancy on micro. Terran has little units that just win in an even a-move battle. For instance, yes, marauders counter zealots if you perform perfect kite micro. When they stand still they get absolutely destroyed. Hellions counter zerglings with good micro, when they stand still they get destroyed. Marines with perfect splitting can counter banelings, when they stand still they get destroyed. Tanks can counter any Zerg unit on land, caught unsieged they get destroyed. Unfortunately Korean Code S level Terrans possess this ability to micro perfectly AND keep macro'ing at the same time, whereas Platinum, Diamond and Masters Terrans don't have those mechanics at all. looks like even top foreigner terrans dont have it | ||
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JonB
Sweden325 Posts
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Latty
Germany567 Posts
ladder players change races due to what is considered "op" at the moment. and for awesome terran play you need awesome apm and stuff. so instead of trying people switch >< | ||
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TheLaw
United States172 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:01 GoSuChicken wrote: I dont think that, at lower lvls terran is still the easiest race to play, because Mules, and you got it already from the campaign. I just think people are slowly getting bored, cause at the beginning alot of people played terran. MULEs are useless unless you have the APM and multitasking to take full advantage of them which most Terrans don't below Masters... | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
I was a low diamond Terran for about a year (started as platinum), playing somewhere between 10 to 15 ladder games a week until recently when i decided to improve and get to masters. So first off all i decided to play a lot more matches and to stop 1-1-1 vs toss which gave me a good win percentage but obviously was not helping me improve. But then all Ts vs which i had a very good win percentage (70%+) were gone from the ladder and all of a sudden i was started getting matched against an endless stream of Protosses, sometimes 7-8 in a row. The results were a demotion to platinum and after 100 games i see from sc2 ranks 38 vs Zerg, 52 vs Protoss and the rest vs Terran, out of which i have won all but 1. I lost over 40 games to protoss to various death ball configurations and also a lot of cheesy all ins (i thought 3-4 bunkers would do the trick but no, if he has enough FF 4 bunkers are not enough). You may say that i am a noob and i deserved that cause i was going 1-1-1 every match but it really feels like i am loosing too lesser players, with half the APM (i have around 100 on the new patch) and no multitasking at all. They just defend an initial push and if i fail to do perfect drops i get swarmed by a zealot line that has support by either archons and HTs or Colossi. The main problem is zealots though, 20 zealots in the front are so difficult to handle, you must stutter step with 250 apm while keeping an eye for storm or colossi while he a moves and nurses his expensive units. This sounds like a whine, i don't care, i feel that in order to win this mu my opponent needs to be simply a worse player. And TvZ is fine and extremely fun, although Metalopolis and Antiga Shipyard are very muta-friendly. Finally I love TvT, i think its the only matchup where if my army evaporates suddendly and the opponent didnt loose his i made a huge blunder, like moving into a siege line etc. In both of the other matchups a single micro mistake and your army is no more. | ||
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