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probably due to terrans dull play style, thats why i didnt choose them early on in the beta, thought i would love em based on BW but got bored early into the beta
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On December 14 2011 15:46 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:31 HikariPrime wrote:On December 14 2011 15:12 BeeNu wrote:
Ok I want to shed some light on perspective of how some races view Terran, I play Zerg at masters and Protoss at about diamond level so far, been playing Protoss a lot more lately because it's a lot more relaxing and "easier" than playing Zerg. You know how there is that stereotype of Zergs being angry all the time? Well it's true, playing Zerg is a good way to give yourself an ulcer.
This is a somewhat long rant but just hear me out and please, correct me if I'm wrong on anything here because I've only been really playing Protoss for a couple weeks.
But look here, I personally hate Terran, I don't necessarily hate Terran players just how the race works in general and I'm hating Terran a fair bit more from the Protoss side rather than the Zerg side. Mostly right now I'm hating Terran because it feels like Bio basically beats every single thing that Protoss has except for Colossus and Storm, and once you do have Coloss or Storm out it's just falls on the Terran's shoulders to properly balance their composition to include Vikings or Ghosts. Idk, I've had too many games so far where I have a bigger army, better econ, better upgrades, yet I lose because the Terran simply has Marines Marauders and Medivacs and I'm left scratching my head as to why a Gateway/Immortal composition still seems to get absolutely crushed and barely scratches his army which seems completely inferior on paper....then I remember "oh right, I didn't have Colossus or Storm which means I auto lose any engagement. Now, I know Chargelots are good, but it seems to me that they can be rather easily beaten by any Terran who turtles behind a wall, similar to how Ultralisks are useless if you actually try to attack into a defense, and they basically don't do a damn thing to Planetary Fortresses meaning Terran can sit back and macro and tech. Here is where it also gets frustrating, if the Terran sits back and maxes then your Chargelots are losing value since a lot of their strength comes from having an armor upgrade advantage, once Terran goes into late game and catches up in upgrades you might as well just have regular old zealots that just melt. On top of all that you got Terran who can just go 1-1-1 if he feels like it and even if I know it's coming and perform a build that supposedly "counters" 1-1-1 those kinds of builds still only seem to have like a 50% chance of actually working.
Maybe I should just be turtling really hard until I max out like I saw somebody else here mention? Cuz quite frankly I can't find any other semi-reliable way to win other than all-inning.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Terran is easy to play, their micro and macro is hard but it all feels fundamentally broken and it also feels like it has a much higher level of potential and flexibility. Pretty much any time I get beaten by a Terran I don't end up coming away from the game not thinking "oh wow that guy was good he played really really well" no, I usually end up seeing it was "this was stupid, I had every advantage I could have imagined and they still won because their race is a joke" which isn't how I want to feel, and I've never really felt that way about Protoss or Zerg. I don't want to hold this against Terran players, but at the same time I don't ever really respect any of them either as a result. About the only time I find myself respecting Terran players is when I'm watching them outmaneuver each other in a TvT. Alright i read this post and im thinking if you have played terran yet... I'm master all races and it took me considerable time to get to masters as terran where as zerg i felt comfortable with the amount of time it took for me to get there, i got to masters toss in about a week after placing straight into diamond. You say you have no idea on how to win as toss other than all in or turtle till three base.. well yeah.. thats kind of how everyone plays that race. Terran has the best overall unit design, but to be able to effectively utilize all this requires a great deal amount of multi-tasking greater than the other races imo. Just from my experience this is how i feel. Protoss was relatively easy, Zerg was the mid-ground, and terran was the hardest for me, Terran can be really good ( look at mvp ) you just have to have a really high amount of skill to abuse all the little things terran can do. I like to play Terran mostly though as i try to get better doing these amount of things. Edit: Oh and i hate toss ~_~ only reason i played that race was to prove to my friends it wouldn't take much to get to masters. For months protoss 4 gated in every match-up and won and still do with different variants.Now they either X amount of gate all in or they turtle till max and fully upped and it works for the most part. So im kind of biased against toss. Don't flame ~ Edit #2 : To the OP, on all my accounts ive noticed that the top ten players in my divisions are all protoss/zergs maybe one to two terrans at most. I have played Terran a bit but not all that much. My biggest deterrent to playing Terran is I just hate the time and energy required to play out a TvT match, cuz quite frankly I really just don't enjoy playing mirror matchups at all. Like, I can play a standard PvP pretty well but 80% of the time I just cannon rush because I want it to be over with quickly and there is no real alternative like that which I know of that can be used in TvT. I was originally going to switch from Zerg to Terran but after a few TvT I was just like "fuck this". See, now you say that Protoss just turtles or all-inns every game to win? Idk, maaaaybe, I haven't really had to absolutely rely on that kind of play vs Protoss or Zerg but idk if that's the only way to beat Terran that sounds pretty disheartening to me.
Oh please, there is just so much protoss can do against terran. You can go for a macro game, you can go for 1 base all-ins, 2 base all-ins. You can go gateway/collossus, zealot/archon, lategame you can go archon, zealot, stalker, collossus, archon, HT and the terran can either 1/1/1 or go pure bio EVERY GAME.
Terran has like 2 options in TvP, all-in or play a macro game with the same unit composition every game, you think protoss is disheartening to play in TvP? Try terran.
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On December 14 2011 15:51 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:46 BeeNu wrote:On December 14 2011 15:31 HikariPrime wrote:On December 14 2011 15:12 BeeNu wrote:
Ok I want to shed some light on perspective of how some races view Terran, I play Zerg at masters and Protoss at about diamond level so far, been playing Protoss a lot more lately because it's a lot more relaxing and "easier" than playing Zerg. You know how there is that stereotype of Zergs being angry all the time? Well it's true, playing Zerg is a good way to give yourself an ulcer.
This is a somewhat long rant but just hear me out and please, correct me if I'm wrong on anything here because I've only been really playing Protoss for a couple weeks.
But look here, I personally hate Terran, I don't necessarily hate Terran players just how the race works in general and I'm hating Terran a fair bit more from the Protoss side rather than the Zerg side. Mostly right now I'm hating Terran because it feels like Bio basically beats every single thing that Protoss has except for Colossus and Storm, and once you do have Coloss or Storm out it's just falls on the Terran's shoulders to properly balance their composition to include Vikings or Ghosts. Idk, I've had too many games so far where I have a bigger army, better econ, better upgrades, yet I lose because the Terran simply has Marines Marauders and Medivacs and I'm left scratching my head as to why a Gateway/Immortal composition still seems to get absolutely crushed and barely scratches his army which seems completely inferior on paper....then I remember "oh right, I didn't have Colossus or Storm which means I auto lose any engagement. Now, I know Chargelots are good, but it seems to me that they can be rather easily beaten by any Terran who turtles behind a wall, similar to how Ultralisks are useless if you actually try to attack into a defense, and they basically don't do a damn thing to Planetary Fortresses meaning Terran can sit back and macro and tech. Here is where it also gets frustrating, if the Terran sits back and maxes then your Chargelots are losing value since a lot of their strength comes from having an armor upgrade advantage, once Terran goes into late game and catches up in upgrades you might as well just have regular old zealots that just melt. On top of all that you got Terran who can just go 1-1-1 if he feels like it and even if I know it's coming and perform a build that supposedly "counters" 1-1-1 those kinds of builds still only seem to have like a 50% chance of actually working.
Maybe I should just be turtling really hard until I max out like I saw somebody else here mention? Cuz quite frankly I can't find any other semi-reliable way to win other than all-inning.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Terran is easy to play, their micro and macro is hard but it all feels fundamentally broken and it also feels like it has a much higher level of potential and flexibility. Pretty much any time I get beaten by a Terran I don't end up coming away from the game not thinking "oh wow that guy was good he played really really well" no, I usually end up seeing it was "this was stupid, I had every advantage I could have imagined and they still won because their race is a joke" which isn't how I want to feel, and I've never really felt that way about Protoss or Zerg. I don't want to hold this against Terran players, but at the same time I don't ever really respect any of them either as a result. About the only time I find myself respecting Terran players is when I'm watching them outmaneuver each other in a TvT. Alright i read this post and im thinking if you have played terran yet... I'm master all races and it took me considerable time to get to masters as terran where as zerg i felt comfortable with the amount of time it took for me to get there, i got to masters toss in about a week after placing straight into diamond. You say you have no idea on how to win as toss other than all in or turtle till three base.. well yeah.. thats kind of how everyone plays that race. Terran has the best overall unit design, but to be able to effectively utilize all this requires a great deal amount of multi-tasking greater than the other races imo. Just from my experience this is how i feel. Protoss was relatively easy, Zerg was the mid-ground, and terran was the hardest for me, Terran can be really good ( look at mvp ) you just have to have a really high amount of skill to abuse all the little things terran can do. I like to play Terran mostly though as i try to get better doing these amount of things. Edit: Oh and i hate toss ~_~ only reason i played that race was to prove to my friends it wouldn't take much to get to masters. For months protoss 4 gated in every match-up and won and still do with different variants.Now they either X amount of gate all in or they turtle till max and fully upped and it works for the most part. So im kind of biased against toss. Don't flame ~ Edit #2 : To the OP, on all my accounts ive noticed that the top ten players in my divisions are all protoss/zergs maybe one to two terrans at most. I have played Terran a bit but not all that much. My biggest deterrent to playing Terran is I just hate the time and energy required to play out a TvT match, cuz quite frankly I really just don't enjoy playing mirror matchups at all. Like, I can play a standard PvP pretty well but 80% of the time I just cannon rush because I want it to be over with quickly and there is no real alternative like that which I know of that can be used in TvT. I was originally going to switch from Zerg to Terran but after a few TvT I was just like "fuck this". See, now you say that Protoss just turtles or all-inns every game to win? Idk, maaaaybe, I haven't really had to absolutely rely on that kind of play vs Protoss or Zerg but idk if that's the only way to beat Terran that sounds pretty disheartening to me. Oh please, there is just so much protoss can do against terran. You can go for a macro game, you can go for 1 base all-ins, 2 base all-ins. You can go gateway/collossus, zealot/archon, lategame you can go archon, zealot, stalker, collossus, archon, HT and the terran can either 1/1/1 or go pure bio EVERY GAME. Terran has like 2 options in TvP, all-in or play a macro game with the same unit composition every game, you think protoss is disheartening to play in TvP? Try terran.
As maining terran i love your post, it really is difficult for terrans in that matchup unless ( UNLESS ) you have a large amount of skill and multi-tasking ability. Just dont rage on these forums man you'll get warned for stuff like this :/
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I still play Terran and have thought of switching sometimes but I don't think I ever will.
I think people playing Terran aren't getting any credit for actually winning games but just being shunned for using an "OP race". Not to mention that Korean Terrans have been dominating Code S since forever so Terrans never really have a hero (I mean, the Terran player who gets 2nd place all of the time is one of the most recognized players in the world).
All the nerfs put on Terrans is also a reason too, my friend took hours and hours to repatch the game, and the patches are basically all Terran nerfs (lol!). It's also such a build order dependent race that requires SO much micro that when you slightly mess up a build order and your micro, you lose the game since Terrans can't remax as fast. That being said, they're incredibly immobile so the game tends to be extremely slow which doesn't suit people's needs. I also want to say that in BW, Terran was a turtle race which was what people expected it to be in SC2 (at least I did), but instead, it's a slow race that requires you to put pressure where you can't really turtle because the other races just get too far ahead of you.
tl;dr: too many nerfs
too many terrans
not the race people were expecting (a turtling race)
slow race
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On December 14 2011 15:51 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:46 BeeNu wrote:On December 14 2011 15:31 HikariPrime wrote:On December 14 2011 15:12 BeeNu wrote:
Ok I want to shed some light on perspective of how some races view Terran, I play Zerg at masters and Protoss at about diamond level so far, been playing Protoss a lot more lately because it's a lot more relaxing and "easier" than playing Zerg. You know how there is that stereotype of Zergs being angry all the time? Well it's true, playing Zerg is a good way to give yourself an ulcer.
This is a somewhat long rant but just hear me out and please, correct me if I'm wrong on anything here because I've only been really playing Protoss for a couple weeks.
But look here, I personally hate Terran, I don't necessarily hate Terran players just how the race works in general and I'm hating Terran a fair bit more from the Protoss side rather than the Zerg side. Mostly right now I'm hating Terran because it feels like Bio basically beats every single thing that Protoss has except for Colossus and Storm, and once you do have Coloss or Storm out it's just falls on the Terran's shoulders to properly balance their composition to include Vikings or Ghosts. Idk, I've had too many games so far where I have a bigger army, better econ, better upgrades, yet I lose because the Terran simply has Marines Marauders and Medivacs and I'm left scratching my head as to why a Gateway/Immortal composition still seems to get absolutely crushed and barely scratches his army which seems completely inferior on paper....then I remember "oh right, I didn't have Colossus or Storm which means I auto lose any engagement. Now, I know Chargelots are good, but it seems to me that they can be rather easily beaten by any Terran who turtles behind a wall, similar to how Ultralisks are useless if you actually try to attack into a defense, and they basically don't do a damn thing to Planetary Fortresses meaning Terran can sit back and macro and tech. Here is where it also gets frustrating, if the Terran sits back and maxes then your Chargelots are losing value since a lot of their strength comes from having an armor upgrade advantage, once Terran goes into late game and catches up in upgrades you might as well just have regular old zealots that just melt. On top of all that you got Terran who can just go 1-1-1 if he feels like it and even if I know it's coming and perform a build that supposedly "counters" 1-1-1 those kinds of builds still only seem to have like a 50% chance of actually working.
Maybe I should just be turtling really hard until I max out like I saw somebody else here mention? Cuz quite frankly I can't find any other semi-reliable way to win other than all-inning.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Terran is easy to play, their micro and macro is hard but it all feels fundamentally broken and it also feels like it has a much higher level of potential and flexibility. Pretty much any time I get beaten by a Terran I don't end up coming away from the game not thinking "oh wow that guy was good he played really really well" no, I usually end up seeing it was "this was stupid, I had every advantage I could have imagined and they still won because their race is a joke" which isn't how I want to feel, and I've never really felt that way about Protoss or Zerg. I don't want to hold this against Terran players, but at the same time I don't ever really respect any of them either as a result. About the only time I find myself respecting Terran players is when I'm watching them outmaneuver each other in a TvT. Alright i read this post and im thinking if you have played terran yet... I'm master all races and it took me considerable time to get to masters as terran where as zerg i felt comfortable with the amount of time it took for me to get there, i got to masters toss in about a week after placing straight into diamond. You say you have no idea on how to win as toss other than all in or turtle till three base.. well yeah.. thats kind of how everyone plays that race. Terran has the best overall unit design, but to be able to effectively utilize all this requires a great deal amount of multi-tasking greater than the other races imo. Just from my experience this is how i feel. Protoss was relatively easy, Zerg was the mid-ground, and terran was the hardest for me, Terran can be really good ( look at mvp ) you just have to have a really high amount of skill to abuse all the little things terran can do. I like to play Terran mostly though as i try to get better doing these amount of things. Edit: Oh and i hate toss ~_~ only reason i played that race was to prove to my friends it wouldn't take much to get to masters. For months protoss 4 gated in every match-up and won and still do with different variants.Now they either X amount of gate all in or they turtle till max and fully upped and it works for the most part. So im kind of biased against toss. Don't flame ~ Edit #2 : To the OP, on all my accounts ive noticed that the top ten players in my divisions are all protoss/zergs maybe one to two terrans at most. I have played Terran a bit but not all that much. My biggest deterrent to playing Terran is I just hate the time and energy required to play out a TvT match, cuz quite frankly I really just don't enjoy playing mirror matchups at all. Like, I can play a standard PvP pretty well but 80% of the time I just cannon rush because I want it to be over with quickly and there is no real alternative like that which I know of that can be used in TvT. I was originally going to switch from Zerg to Terran but after a few TvT I was just like "fuck this". See, now you say that Protoss just turtles or all-inns every game to win? Idk, maaaaybe, I haven't really had to absolutely rely on that kind of play vs Protoss or Zerg but idk if that's the only way to beat Terran that sounds pretty disheartening to me. Oh please, there is just so much protoss can do against terran. You can go for a macro game, you can go for 1 base all-ins, 2 base all-ins. You can go gateway/collossus, zealot/archon, lategame you can go archon, zealot, stalker, collossus, archon, HT and the terran can either 1/1/1 or go pure bio EVERY GAME. Terran has like 2 options in TvP, all-in or play a macro game with the same unit composition every game, you think protoss is disheartening to play in TvP? Try terran.
Yes, I am aware Terran only has like 1-1-1 all-in or just Bio Bio Bio and it isn't particularly fun, but both of those things are also incredibly strong and everything Protoss does is just trying to figure out how to deal with those 2 things. So basically in the TvP matchup you're just seeing 1-1-1 and Bio every game every time and I find it ridiculous because I don't think those options should be as strong as they are and Terran should be able to and be required to use a broader array of units and strategies. This is kinda what I meant by saying I feel Terran is fundamentally flawed. I hope that helps clear that up a bit.
And like I said before I was playing Terran for a while before I started playing Protoss and it felt kinda stupid. It's like, ok, all I gotta do is make Bio and have good macro and I can crush pretty much everything the Protoss throws at me as long as I do a minimal amount of scouting and know when to add in some Vikings or Ghosts.
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I've played Terran since I started playing StarCraft 2. Personally, I enjoy it because it's a race I'm more familiar with. I'm not even going to consider switching unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
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On December 14 2011 13:54 ZenithM wrote:
Now I want to say that once more (every time I see people complain about Terran being hard while watching pro Terrans being awesome at the GSL), I'm tempted to switch to Terran.
Let me put it bluntly:
Note that I have nothing to gain from mindlessly bragging like I will seem to do in the next paragraph.
I would consider myself as having good mechanics, I would go as far as to say that I have great mechanics (!). My macro doesn't slip up, I don't misclick, I don't miss an occasion to micro my units, I use 4 unit control groups in various dynamic configurations, and I rarely miss something on the minimap (like, I catch a drop that goes by the edge of a pylon vision, kills it with blink stalkers just to be called a maphacker, happens to me all the time :D). When a drop appears in my base, I watch the replay to see if I could have seen it earlier, nearly systematically. I honestly feel that when I lose, I lose because I made a bad decision and that's basically it (it's a great feeling), it's rarely my macro, my micro, a badly placed forcefield or mechanical errors like that. I trained myself for hours and hours on purely my mechanics and refining build orders, and not mass laddering at all. I'm a high level amateur violinist so my fingers were already quite agile to begin with. I tried a dozen mice to find the one that I'm the most comfortable with and hit my clicks precisely and the fastest possible. I studied pro-gamers hotkey settings to try to pick the one that would make me the fastest I could. I watched Bisu's FPVODs to try to grasp how he was moving around the map so much faster than the fastest SC2 players, and try to emulate that (don't get me wrong, I'm not Bisu, silly me, it's just to say that I'm not content with simply being fast like a SC2 pro streamer, and I work towards that). I'm neglecting completely playing ladder so my game sense is not that good, but that's the trade I chose to make to strengthen my mechanics to the maximum I could. My hope was that if I'm satisfied with my mechanics, I can start rolling through people on ladder and enjoying the strategic aspect of SC2.
I'm probably exagerating a bit of course, it still happens that I miss something, like everyone I guess, but I'm really proud of my mechanics. So assuming that all I'm claiming here is remotely true, should I switch to Terran from Protoss? Is it worth it or will I experience the same disappointement in my race as you guys feel.
Tl;dr; Do you guys feel that mechanics alone are a really big factor in Terran's demise on the ladder, or is is something else? If it's mechanics, I'm feeling like giving Terran a serious try.
Hoping that I will not get flamed for this, we'll see.
Btw I want to know if some other TL guys are mechanics maniacs like me and did the same things that I do, or if I'm just weird ;D
Yes, it's mechanics. I don't understand why people can't wrap their branes around this. Marines/Rauders get very cost efficient with stim and medvacs if you have great unit control and multitasking. Without great mechanics, they lose their efficiency, and Blizzard nurfed the crap out of everything else leaving BIO as the strongest part of the race so other, less mechanically demanding unit compositions - like MECH - lose more than they win because Zerg and Toss have better options for lower skilled players.
People are welcome to disagree, but whenever they do, they seem at a loss to give any other valid explanation for the stark contrast between Terrans performance in GSL, and everywhere else. When asked what they think the issue is, they often say "I don't know, but I'm not buying the mechanics argument, TERRAN OP"
I think it has a lot to do with people not wanting to admit that Terran might be harder than their race at that skill level - Which is understandable. You don't have to agree with it for it to be true.
PS. - From everything I see Zerg seems to be the most well adjusted race. it fares well in Korea, in Europe, In NA, from GSL through platinum/masters league it does very well. From early through late game it seems to be very well balanced with multiple options at each stage of the game. What do you guys think?
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On December 14 2011 10:40 Xalorian wrote:
I don't see it having any thing to do with the balance, since the MMR mean that you will have around 50% rate no matter what.
Are you sure? I have 70% winrate in tvz, 60% tvt but my tvp is 30% this season. It is true I won over 50% of my games, but MMR has nothing to do with balance, and I hope you understand that :D Losing so much in tvp just made me switch over to Z for a while. I know alot of guys who has done the same. My plan is going back to T next season, but if tvp remains as frustrating as it has been recently I wont stick to terran. I play this game to have fun, not to be frustrated. Plus it gets kinda boring over time playing mostly bad oponents in tvz and tvt.
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I've noticed this too way less Terrans than there used to be playing Ladder. I suppose most have switched over because they feel their race is a lot weaker than before because of the buff/nerfs
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since big parts of the community dislike terran players...a lot of beginning players chose to play zerg or protoss. I will play Terran forever in my Silver League^^ since i cant stand the vomit like look of Zerg or the annoying sounds of Protoss Units...pretty simple....i know.
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On December 14 2011 16:03 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 15:51 doko100 wrote:On December 14 2011 15:46 BeeNu wrote:On December 14 2011 15:31 HikariPrime wrote:On December 14 2011 15:12 BeeNu wrote:
Ok I want to shed some light on perspective of how some races view Terran, I play Zerg at masters and Protoss at about diamond level so far, been playing Protoss a lot more lately because it's a lot more relaxing and "easier" than playing Zerg. You know how there is that stereotype of Zergs being angry all the time? Well it's true, playing Zerg is a good way to give yourself an ulcer.
This is a somewhat long rant but just hear me out and please, correct me if I'm wrong on anything here because I've only been really playing Protoss for a couple weeks.
But look here, I personally hate Terran, I don't necessarily hate Terran players just how the race works in general and I'm hating Terran a fair bit more from the Protoss side rather than the Zerg side. Mostly right now I'm hating Terran because it feels like Bio basically beats every single thing that Protoss has except for Colossus and Storm, and once you do have Coloss or Storm out it's just falls on the Terran's shoulders to properly balance their composition to include Vikings or Ghosts. Idk, I've had too many games so far where I have a bigger army, better econ, better upgrades, yet I lose because the Terran simply has Marines Marauders and Medivacs and I'm left scratching my head as to why a Gateway/Immortal composition still seems to get absolutely crushed and barely scratches his army which seems completely inferior on paper....then I remember "oh right, I didn't have Colossus or Storm which means I auto lose any engagement. Now, I know Chargelots are good, but it seems to me that they can be rather easily beaten by any Terran who turtles behind a wall, similar to how Ultralisks are useless if you actually try to attack into a defense, and they basically don't do a damn thing to Planetary Fortresses meaning Terran can sit back and macro and tech. Here is where it also gets frustrating, if the Terran sits back and maxes then your Chargelots are losing value since a lot of their strength comes from having an armor upgrade advantage, once Terran goes into late game and catches up in upgrades you might as well just have regular old zealots that just melt. On top of all that you got Terran who can just go 1-1-1 if he feels like it and even if I know it's coming and perform a build that supposedly "counters" 1-1-1 those kinds of builds still only seem to have like a 50% chance of actually working.
Maybe I should just be turtling really hard until I max out like I saw somebody else here mention? Cuz quite frankly I can't find any other semi-reliable way to win other than all-inning.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Terran is easy to play, their micro and macro is hard but it all feels fundamentally broken and it also feels like it has a much higher level of potential and flexibility. Pretty much any time I get beaten by a Terran I don't end up coming away from the game not thinking "oh wow that guy was good he played really really well" no, I usually end up seeing it was "this was stupid, I had every advantage I could have imagined and they still won because their race is a joke" which isn't how I want to feel, and I've never really felt that way about Protoss or Zerg. I don't want to hold this against Terran players, but at the same time I don't ever really respect any of them either as a result. About the only time I find myself respecting Terran players is when I'm watching them outmaneuver each other in a TvT. Alright i read this post and im thinking if you have played terran yet... I'm master all races and it took me considerable time to get to masters as terran where as zerg i felt comfortable with the amount of time it took for me to get there, i got to masters toss in about a week after placing straight into diamond. You say you have no idea on how to win as toss other than all in or turtle till three base.. well yeah.. thats kind of how everyone plays that race. Terran has the best overall unit design, but to be able to effectively utilize all this requires a great deal amount of multi-tasking greater than the other races imo. Just from my experience this is how i feel. Protoss was relatively easy, Zerg was the mid-ground, and terran was the hardest for me, Terran can be really good ( look at mvp ) you just have to have a really high amount of skill to abuse all the little things terran can do. I like to play Terran mostly though as i try to get better doing these amount of things. Edit: Oh and i hate toss ~_~ only reason i played that race was to prove to my friends it wouldn't take much to get to masters. For months protoss 4 gated in every match-up and won and still do with different variants.Now they either X amount of gate all in or they turtle till max and fully upped and it works for the most part. So im kind of biased against toss. Don't flame ~ Edit #2 : To the OP, on all my accounts ive noticed that the top ten players in my divisions are all protoss/zergs maybe one to two terrans at most. I have played Terran a bit but not all that much. My biggest deterrent to playing Terran is I just hate the time and energy required to play out a TvT match, cuz quite frankly I really just don't enjoy playing mirror matchups at all. Like, I can play a standard PvP pretty well but 80% of the time I just cannon rush because I want it to be over with quickly and there is no real alternative like that which I know of that can be used in TvT. I was originally going to switch from Zerg to Terran but after a few TvT I was just like "fuck this". See, now you say that Protoss just turtles or all-inns every game to win? Idk, maaaaybe, I haven't really had to absolutely rely on that kind of play vs Protoss or Zerg but idk if that's the only way to beat Terran that sounds pretty disheartening to me. Oh please, there is just so much protoss can do against terran. You can go for a macro game, you can go for 1 base all-ins, 2 base all-ins. You can go gateway/collossus, zealot/archon, lategame you can go archon, zealot, stalker, collossus, archon, HT and the terran can either 1/1/1 or go pure bio EVERY GAME. Terran has like 2 options in TvP, all-in or play a macro game with the same unit composition every game, you think protoss is disheartening to play in TvP? Try terran. Yes, I am aware Terran only has like 1-1-1 all-in or just Bio Bio Bio and it isn't particularly fun, but both of those things are also incredibly strong and everything Protoss does is just trying to figure out how to deal with those 2 things. So basically in the TvP matchup you're just seeing 1-1-1 and Bio every game every time and I find it ridiculous because I don't think those options should be as strong as they are and Terran should be able to and be required to use a broader array of units and strategies. This is kinda what I meant by saying I feel Terran is fundamentally flawed. I hope that helps clear that up a bit. And like I said before I was playing Terran for a while before I started playing Protoss and it felt kinda stupid. It's like, ok, all I gotta do is make Bio and have good macro and I can crush pretty much everything the Protoss throws at me as long as I do a minimal amount of scouting and know when to add in some Vikings or Ghosts.
Dude are you serious? TvP is heavily Protoss favored outside of pro level play, in diamond/masters TvP is like a protoss win-fest. How does Protoss deal with 1-1-1 and Bio? 1-1-1 has been figured out weeks ago, it's not even the build that is good anymore it's pretty much only effective if the protoss doesn't scout and counter it accordingly. Second of all, Bio is too strong? I hope you realize that controlling a bio army is about 3 times harder than controlling a protoss deathball, that's part of the reason why protoss is dominating terran in the leagues below grandmaster so hard.
And terran should use other builds? Hang on a second buddy, we tried, we incorporated Thors into our bio armies, wanna know what happened? Oh yes, they immediately got nerfed by Blizzard. Don't blame it on terran player that we can't use anything else but Bio? Do you think it's fun for us to fight an uphill battle with weaker units and no splash against an army with alot of splash damage that is easier to control? No it isn't, but it's the only option.
And you can crush pretty much everything the Protoss throws at you with bio? You have to be kidding, again Protoss is heavily favored in TvP, how can you come to the conclusion that it's easier for the terran at all.
Terran has less effective builds and options in TvP compared to Protoss, so what exactly is your problem? You are complaining that Protoss only has 20 different options in TvP, whilst Terran has like what 2 or 3? Please just stop.
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I love Terran Players and Zerg Players <3  ( I hate Protoss players ) 
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On December 14 2011 13:28 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 13:26 itkovian wrote:
I've wanted to switch from terran to zerg forever. But i'm always afraid of starting over. Zerg just seems so much more mobile and fast, and I'd prefer that kind of playstyle.
My feelings exactly. I might just go bite the bullet and spend another $60 after christmas for a second account, this way it won't feel like starting over, it will just feel like starting.
Haha, you should have bought it a couple weeks ago then. I think they had it at thirty dollars if I remember right.
And yes, having another account would make it easier to start, but still you have to learn all the builds and counters and how to handle this and that all-in. I feel like it would just be really tedious and frustrating at first.
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Been loving me some PvT lately and have grown fat on Terran tears. My, they sure are tasty. At Platinum, a solid 1 gate FE build or 2 gate robo FE will win you something like 80% of your games against standard bio play. If they push early to deny it you just run up into your main and perma FF them while you harass and tech as needed. One only need a well placed pylon out on the map and the knowledge that they have a substantial portion of their army at your natural to decide to warp in a round of zealots and go ape-shit on their mineral line. Or you can use a warp prism but I tend to save my robo usage for Colo tech on one base. As long as they don't expand, denying your expansion doesn't do them as much good as they'd hope.
I have problems with the players doing new things as opposed to the more standard bio play. Banshees as part of an army deliver some serious DPS and I find that when mixed with the right combination of other units they basically create a near perfect army trade scenario: you wipe out most of their ground units with Colo tech and gateway units but in the end, perhaps your obs got sniped and you don't have enough stalkers to take the bastards (banshees) out. Tis a GG scenario for me that happens in various ways.
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Terran is a really hard race to play if you don't engage perfectly. In fact, I'm a mid-master Terran and after reading this, I think I'm going to switch to Z 
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On December 14 2011 14:37 zanmat0 wrote:
Wow the Terran whinning in this thread is pathetic. If you're going to claim Terran is UP (which is absolutely is not), at least try to provide some evidence.
as I said to someone else earlier in the thread - if you dont play terran, refrain from making comments like this because A) its untrue and B) Its unfair.
The general theme of the thread is that Terran is not 'under powered' it is just that you have to do much more as Terran than the other races to win. Engagement is far more crucial to Terran than other races which, is in most situations, making Terran too hard to play for most.
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Terran is a really hard race to play (Coming from a Mid Master Zerg who's tried off-Racing both other Races)
Terran is hard to play
Protoss= Easy to Play as an Off-Race.
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I switched from Protoss to Terran not too long ago because I was fed up with PvZ. Now TvZ is easy but TvP is really hard  . It's frustrating but more fun though, I just have to play better.
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Seems to me it's too middle-of-the-line, perhaps? Protoss gets huge balls of death and destruction; awesome. Zerg gets massive economies and swarmy, fast units that can remax in under a minute. Awesome. Terran gets the middle road, worse units than Protoss and more expensive than Zerg. It's a little less fun, perhaps, everything is very standard, everything you'd expect from any RTS, no flare.
I think it's just fluctuating. In a few months, maybe we'll see a thread just like this that asks, "where are all the Zerg players?" and we'll all talk about how ZvZ is miserable and how frustrating it is to have most of your losses due to something abusive simply because it's the only way to beat some Zergs.
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EPT
