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On December 14 2011 11:15 HypernovA wrote:
Why have I stopped playing this game?
- I'm tired of having to work 2 or 3 times harder than most of my opponents (high diamond level).
- I'm tired of being flamed if I win because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of being called a bad player because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of people calling me a cheesy abuser if I use units like cloaked banshees, or hellions openings.
- I'm tired of people flaming Terran players who win tournaments in situations where clearly the Terran player was the superior player.
- I'm tired of receiving help answer like "LOL DUDE, MAKE MORE MARINES. Can't make more MMM against Protoss? Wow you suck."
There. I said it. The community is very negative toward Terran players in General and this has caused me to stop playing and only watch games.
Did you try simply not giving a damn? Did you stopped going to University because many people said that you spend too much money on it? Srsly just mute chat and enjoy the game if you a such sensitive.
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On December 14 2011 17:00 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 11:15 HypernovA wrote:
Why have I stopped playing this game?
- I'm tired of having to work 2 or 3 times harder than most of my opponents (high diamond level).
- I'm tired of being flamed if I win because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of being called a bad player because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of people calling me a cheesy abuser if I use units like cloaked banshees, or hellions openings.
- I'm tired of people flaming Terran players who win tournaments in situations where clearly the Terran player was the superior player.
- I'm tired of receiving help answer like "LOL DUDE, MAKE MORE MARINES. Can't make more MMM against Protoss? Wow you suck."
There. I said it. The community is very negative toward Terran players in General and this has caused me to stop playing and only watch games. Did you try simply not giving a damn? Did you stopped going to University because many people said that you spend too much money on it? Srsly just mute chat and enjoy the game if you a such sensitive.
Or the other option is people could just stop being dicks and manner up.
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On December 14 2011 17:02 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 17:00 Corsica wrote:On December 14 2011 11:15 HypernovA wrote:
Why have I stopped playing this game?
- I'm tired of having to work 2 or 3 times harder than most of my opponents (high diamond level).
- I'm tired of being flamed if I win because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of being called a bad player because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of people calling me a cheesy abuser if I use units like cloaked banshees, or hellions openings.
- I'm tired of people flaming Terran players who win tournaments in situations where clearly the Terran player was the superior player.
- I'm tired of receiving help answer like "LOL DUDE, MAKE MORE MARINES. Can't make more MMM against Protoss? Wow you suck."
There. I said it. The community is very negative toward Terran players in General and this has caused me to stop playing and only watch games. Did you try simply not giving a damn? Did you stopped going to University because many people said that you spend too much money on it? Srsly just mute chat and enjoy the game if you a such sensitive. Or the other option is people could just stop being dicks and manner up.
that wont happen. not in starcraft and not in RL. just do what you wanna do and dont care about people that are like that...
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I think it's simply because:
1. Newbies play terran because it's the singleplayer race, it's the one they have the most experience with after beating story mode.
2. Terran goes from being easy mode in bronze to being quite hard to play early. As soon as you get to the point where "build a few M&M and win" doesn't work, they are forced to either get much better macro or start using harder to control units like tanks.
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I have three accounts for each race all in master league. By no means am I any good at starcraft. But I think the one thing you could say about terran is that the micro is a little more intense. Maybe not at the highest level, but without micro and multi-tasking(unless you all in every game) as Terran you can`t really win games; even lower than the pro level. Which can be discouraging to lower league players to get into learning the race.
I don't think Terran is under powered at all I just wanted to make that clear.
Another reason I think that there are less Terran is because for zerg and protoss there are plenty of personalities, such as : Incontrol, Huk, Idra, White-raw, Destiny. There are not that many foreign terran`s that are that well known.
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On December 14 2011 17:00 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:56 Noocta wrote:
Well, as a terran player, it kinda feel wrong that no one is winning with Terran if they don't have a 3 capital letters nickname starting with an M.
It's really hard to copy high level terran too when you are between plat and low master ( where most of the players on TL are ) because it's less about the builds and more the execution.
Like, if a Zerg player in Diamond try to copy Nestea, it will probably be easier than a Diamond Terran trying to be MVP. :/ so jjakji changed his name to Mjjakji? Also sorry but a diamond zerg trying to copy nestea would fail extremely miserable because a lot of nesteas play relies on making less units than needed and having absolutely godly unit control, and a godly gamesense with amazing decision making, as zerg you cannot copy builds like you can as terran and protoss.
Some weeks ago, Day9 made a copy Nestea type of daily, with fast 3base with safety 8 baneling pretty early. For watching it, it looked pretty easy to copy.
Beside, yeah, i always forget about Jjakji. He win a GSL only for now, and out of nowhere so let's still wait to put him with MVP and MMA imo. :<
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On December 14 2011 12:57 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 12:53 ZenithM wrote:On December 14 2011 12:51 aTnClouD wrote:On December 14 2011 12:48 ZenithM wrote:
One thing bothers me though. While I can understand ClouD's take on this (he's at the top EU level after all), most of the random ladder Terrans have a 50% winrate (thanks to Blizzard), and they don't play other Terrans because there is no terran player (supposedly).
So how come you can all state that your race is the hardest? You win 50% of your matches, don't you? You say that "this" or "that" is fucking hard for terran, but you still win games in the end. I mean, I would say "Protoss is fucking easy OLOLOL", I would still lose 50% of my matches, so I can't really be convinced that Protoss is that easy. that happens because in the end you get to play people at your level no matter how hard or easy your race or the others are. it's not like the hardest race at the lower levels gets more losses, they just fight even with overall "worse" players. Yeah but that's my point. How can you say for sure that you play "worse" players? I play Protoss. Do I have to convince myself that I play "better" players constantly? you just realize it, if a player is worse you can notice. they don't watch minimap as well as you, they can't multitask as well as you, they cant produce for a long time while attacking, they draw less often attention away from your expansions so they can deal eco damage. all things common to every race make you notice how good or bad another player is compared to you no matter what he plays.
This 100 times. Makes playing Terran SO frustrating, especially against Protoss. Most Protoss players at high masters/gm love to just sit there and chronoboost out fast upgrades and not do anything offensive until they max or you fuck up, while you're trying drops, multi-pronged attacks, and keeping up with macro. Even if you manage to get the advantage, they just roll over you in the big battle with 3/3 upgrades, Colossus/Storm and easy to control deathball.
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On December 14 2011 16:55 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:45 ZenithM wrote:On December 14 2011 16:40 Scila wrote:
*Terran is by far the most micro-intensive race - > you will lose many fights easily if you don't micro and position correctly
*Weakest late-game
*Production is very annoying, you have to worry about constantly producing units and managing addons, Zerg just selects larva and Protoss insta-warp in anywhere -> also means you can't float money like Protoss and Zerg
*Very fragile units - > low hp, high damage, so once again goes back to requiring a lot of micro
*Tons of nerfs
*Hardest race to master
Just some stuff off the top of my head. Now that's a bit gratuitous. My turn: *Protoss is by far the most micro-intensive race - > you will lose many fights easily if you don't micro and position correctly *Weakest late-game *Production is very annoying, you have to worry about constantly producing units and looking away to warp in in pylon range, Zerg just selects larva and Terran insta-queue and drop orbitals anywhere -> also means you can't float money like Terran and Zerg *Very clumsy units - > low damage, high hp, so once again goes back to requiring a lot of micro *Tons of nerfs *Hardest race to master LOL, completely baseless thing to say.
That was precisely my point. I'm not really thinking what I wrote, it was sarcasm. It's just that what you said was precisely baseless.
I'm sure I use probably more control groups than you and I play Protoss, (I'm basically using all 10 of them, with 4 for my units, hard to top that), don't generalize too quickly based on your being forced to, oh the horror, use one control group for ghosts.
Before EMP nerf, going to lategame against Terran 3/3 bio with carpet EMP felt like suicide. It still feel like suicide against Zerg. Those broodlords man, they're strong, and you know it, being Terran ;D
That doesn't even make sense, very clumsy and high HP units actually result in requiring less apm, not more
Think a bit, it's actually exactly the same if low HP/high damage units fight against low damage/high HP units. Both types of units can die at the same rate if they fight each other, because doing low damage to low HP units can equal doing high damage to high HP units. So it all comes down to micro in the end. Obviously I don't think that Protoss have "low damage", but you jumped on it and made that silly comment so I just had to correct it.
especially because all the cooldowns on gateways are simultaneous
Well, you don't know much about the game you're playing apparently, so much for Terran skillzorz playerz. Warpgate units all have different cooldowns. It's just that you cannot conceive that players don't warp "only 1 type of unit" rounds. It's actually required as Protoss if you want to play well, you can't just warp only zealots, then only stalkers.
I don't want to argue too much on this thread as I was actually on the Terran side, recognizing that Terran is mechanically harder, possibly. But your original post was just too whiny for me to let it pass. But ok, you win, I agree, Terran hard.
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Northern Ireland26032 Posts
I don't understand the reasoning behind switching race because your opponents consider your race to be OP?
You do realise that most of these people are fundamentally flawed psychologically right? The kind of people who blame everything that goes wrong on external factors, but notably NEVER blame themselves for playing badly?
I'm actually pretty nuanced in my views, and have never viewed Terrans as being particularly overpowered against the glorious defenders of Aiur. There were some extremely obnoxious all-ins, but the problem for Terrans is that those have to a large degree been figured out. Protoss now has stable, economy-based openers that can be tapered to counter all but THE MOST all-in of plays, while maintaining the ability to tech up to our good units. I'd go as far to say that a good Protoss player who shuts down drop harass completely and gets their tech up should never lose to a Terran in late-game scenarios. The massive replenishment from 10+ gateways is such a powerful tool.
I still think the charge of Protoss being the least demanding race mechanically to have some validity. However there is another edge to that particular sword, and that is that Protoss also benefits the least from having GOOD mechanics. Besides unit control and chronoboosting there is less advantage in being good mechanically as a Protoss player than if you are playing either of the other races. I'm a rather mediocre player, but my chrono spend is damn-near faultless and I feel I receive very little benefit from actually doing that. Zerg have creep spread and injecting, and the benefits from this are really reaped by mechanically sound players. Terran reward mechanically sound players by having very cost-efficient, high DPS units and a variety of harassment options. To watch MVP play at his best is, no matter who you are to think 'wow, Terran looks great to play'.
I personally don't care for the 'vanishing' of Terrans other than PvT is easily my best matchup  Play your race better, because Terran played to its potential is a really powerful option. If you want to play other races that's fine, but don't go QQing about racial imbalance.
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I recently switched out from Z to play T in diamond. Compared to Z where I lost every game when i fucked my injects its now a lot more laid back and forgiving. If I choose a bad strategy (reactor hellion expand vs roach rushes etc.) I never have any fear of dying immediately since defensively T is so strong. T makes this game very forgiving wich is a breeze compared to zerg.
BUT
as many people have said T may be the hardest race to master. I think they are at least partially right. there is so much to get out of every unit that its impossible if your not the best of the best to get the max out of your units. Zerg units are shit (there are designed to be) so thats something I didnt worry about too much when playing Z. maybe because of the pressure to make your units count many players dont use terran anymore.
And of course for the shit you get. Still....
Im sorry that i cant say anything about P but it seems to me like the ladder is made of Z and nothing else. So not much experience in TvP.
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On December 14 2011 17:00 Corsica wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 11:15 HypernovA wrote:
Why have I stopped playing this game?
- I'm tired of having to work 2 or 3 times harder than most of my opponents (high diamond level).
- I'm tired of being flamed if I win because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of being called a bad player because I play Terran.
- I'm tired of people calling me a cheesy abuser if I use units like cloaked banshees, or hellions openings.
- I'm tired of people flaming Terran players who win tournaments in situations where clearly the Terran player was the superior player.
- I'm tired of receiving help answer like "LOL DUDE, MAKE MORE MARINES. Can't make more MMM against Protoss? Wow you suck."
There. I said it. The community is very negative toward Terran players in General and this has caused me to stop playing and only watch games. Did you try simply not giving a damn? Did you stopped going to University because many people said that you spend too much money on it? Srsly just mute chat and enjoy the game if you a such sensitive.
It´s not everything about "don´t give a shit" for sure in most of the cases i don´t give a damn but over time its just sad and disapointing to have a comunnity that acts like that. And we don´t talk only about random people on the ladder we talk about a lot of poeople in the community.
Open a random thread about a specific tactic question a terran have..... you will find a lot of terran hater.....
I don´t remember the tread but a guy wrote: "oh i hate all player wich are playing terran only becouse they play terran!"
its not funny. Yes i can mute the chat but as an player who loves the game you want to be a part of the community as well.
More manner more respect.
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On December 14 2011 16:56 Noocta wrote:
Well, as a terran player, it kinda feel wrong that no one is winning with Terran if they don't have a 3 capital letters nickname starting with an M.
It's really hard to copy high level terran too when you are between plat and low master ( where most of the players on TL are ) because it's less about the builds and more the execution.
Like, if a Zerg player in Diamond try to copy Nestea, it will probably be easier than a Diamond Terran trying to be MVP. :/
Actually even that isn't enough to win trust me. Maybe its in the V or P that is the magic letter.
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On December 14 2011 17:14 MHT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 16:56 Noocta wrote:
Well, as a terran player, it kinda feel wrong that no one is winning with Terran if they don't have a 3 capital letters nickname starting with an M.
It's really hard to copy high level terran too when you are between plat and low master ( where most of the players on TL are ) because it's less about the builds and more the execution.
Like, if a Zerg player in Diamond try to copy Nestea, it will probably be easier than a Diamond Terran trying to be MVP. :/ Actually even that isn't enough to win trust me. Maybe its in the V or P that is the magic letter.
Haha I chuckled ;D
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On December 14 2011 15:12 BeeNu wrote:
But look here, I personally hate Terran, I don't necessarily hate Terran players just how the race works in general and I'm hating Terran a fair bit more from the Protoss side rather than the Zerg side. Mostly right now I'm hating Terran because it feels like Bio basically beats every single thing that Protoss has except for Colossus and Storm, and once you do have Coloss or Storm out it's just falls on the Terran's shoulders to properly balance their composition to include Vikings or Ghosts. Idk, I've had too many games so far where I have a bigger army, better econ, better upgrades, yet I lose because the Terran simply has Marines Marauders and Medivacs and I'm left scratching my head as to why a Gateway/Immortal composition still seems to get absolutely crushed and barely scratches his army which seems completely inferior on paper....then I remember "oh right, I didn't have Colossus or Storm which means I auto lose any engagement. Now, I know Chargelots are good, but it seems to me that they can be rather easily beaten by any Terran who turtles behind a wall, similar to how Ultralisks are useless if you actually try to attack into a defense, and they basically don't do a damn thing to Planetary Fortresses meaning Terran can sit back and macro and tech. Here is where it also gets frustrating, if the Terran sits back and maxes then your Chargelots are losing value since a lot of their strength comes from having an armor upgrade advantage, once Terran goes into late game and catches up in upgrades you might as well just have regular old zealots that just melt. On top of all that you got Terran who can just go 1-1-1 if he feels like it and even if I know it's coming and perform a build that supposedly "counters" 1-1-1 those kinds of builds still only seem to have like a 50% chance of actually working.
Do you think we enjoy having our factory units get crushed by literally anything that isn't a sentry? The matchup isn't fun for Terrans either because we have to derp around with a retarded bioball when almost all of us would rather play a mech/biomech style because it's more fun. But we can't. Chargelots shit on every factory unit. So do immortals. So do archons. So do void rays. Blink stalkers just laugh while they run around harassing all our bases because the only unit that's fast enough to keep up is the hellion, which can't kill a stalker. All our air units except vikings are energy units as well, which is a nightmare to try and field against a templar-heavy composition (which is the norm these days). We're shoehorned into making marines and marauders, and consequently they need to be able to hold their own against most of the Protoss tech tree otherwise we'd never win a game. Also, the chargelot/ultra comparison isn't valid because ultras take up huge amounts of space and have trouble getting surface area on anything. Chargelots don't have that problem.
All TvP feels like is trying to max out and do your best to stay as close to even on upgrades as you can, making sure your ghost/viking timings are good, and then praying to Jesus that you can win before Protoss can exceed three bases. Once the game gets to the point where Protoss is on 20 gates with the ability to tech switch between templar and colossus at will, you actually have to be a vastly superior player to win. That is why I cheese Protoss every single game on ladder.
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Its pretty sad, because ZvT is my best MU 
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I feel terran is slightly more powerful to play at very low levels, and at the very top (and even that is changing). All in between it's getting hard for terrans when protosses and zergs have learned to identify and counter different pushes. And the multitask/micro is the hardest for T, which is why I think Koreans have so much success with that race.
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Terran isn't that fun unless you're playing at the top level and can use your units to the maximum potential.
I rediscovered my love for the game when I switched to protoss, and I learned to respect all races when I started playing random. Now I can't blame losses on imbalance, because I'm probably spawning as that race next game.
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I am orginially a protoss player but a week or two ago I tried playing Terran, it wasn't so hard at least not bioplay. TvP was a piece of cake since I knew mostly what builds are good and what not, destroying them early game with all-ins is not that hard. Only matchup I felt was somewhat hard would be TvZ. But I think Bio play is really easy to play also compared to mech, which seems very hard tbh. Maybe it will become more available in HotS.
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On December 14 2011 17:16 TimeRunnerS wrote:Its pretty sad, because ZvT is my best MU
Actualy, i switched to Terran because i love ZvT so much, and there's so few Terran in ladder, i wanted to play that match up more often.
So i play it on the other side. :>
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Low levels play the campaign first and they get use to terran and stick to it. When they start to improve they get bored with the race since it is pretty micro intensive, Which lower levels do not pick up on. The level of master and GM players still seem to be the same because they have gotten over the lump at around gold - platinum where their micro becomes better and they can continue to improve.
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EPT
