|
On December 14 2011 13:32 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 13:29 Ubenn wrote:On December 14 2011 13:27 Kharnage wrote:On December 14 2011 13:09 Ubenn wrote:On December 14 2011 13:03 Kharnage wrote:On December 14 2011 12:59 Bonkerz wrote:On December 14 2011 10:48 Darpa wrote:
Its easier to be good at lower levels with Protoss and to a lesser extent zerg, because micro is so much easier with those races.
PVT is an awful matchup below masters.
Zerg seems to be the flavor of the month (Terran was when the game released)
But I think the simple most obvious reasons are two fold: 1. A ton of players played terran at launch, got bored and swithced. 2. You need to be relentlessly aggressive with terran at higher levels. Alot of players dont have the skills to do that and ,like to turtle to macro, which is far more effective for each of the other races. (i.e. you lose alot until you get good at being aggressive). PVT is still an aweful matchup even at masters, bc terran army not cost efficient lategame, 1 bad engage and it's gg. Yeah, protoss can recover from a bad engage lategame easily *rolls eyes* Warp in 10 Zealots after big engagement, rader's either die or end up kiting for 3 minutes. Assuming I have a warp prism close enough, the resources in the bank, 10 gates not on cool down and then my 10 zealots can attack your planetary fortress 4th base which will do .... fuck all. But I do agree in principle, the warp in mechanism means protoss can reinforce faster. If the end-game has gone on long enough for protoss to get say 20 gates and a HUGE bank then they can win with that. But that requires a long period of inactivity on the terrans part who will 'in general' hit 200 supply faster than protoss and should be looking to force an engagement then while protoss is sitting on 160ish. Whenever I see a pro terran hit 200 and just sort of move around the map without building more production facilities OR attacking into the protoss I think "yup, protoss gonna win this one" There lies the problem. i'm sorry, maybe I'm being dense, but where is the problem? Forcing the engagement? Why? Protoss turtles? (genuine question, not beng a smart arse)
There isn't a problem. Adding on production is part of hitting 200/200. And attacking at that point to trade armies is also key. Fulling 20 warpgates at once is nearly impossible unless your opponent just lets you the 3k minerals and gas necessary to do so.
|
Protoss players have been dealing with medivacs for all of SC2, terran players are just now adjusting (especially at the lower levels) to warp prism play. I think the difference in perception is because of familiarity.
|
I played random until this this spring, switched to Terran because it had the most variety (yeah retarded reasoning coming from a random but hey ^^), now just switched back to random again because TvT has become retarded bio derping again.
The best thing about playing random is that when you spawn Terran (and I let people know my race, because I don't rely on a sham to win), is that i GET FLAMED FOR PLAYING TERRAN.
Think about it, how nonsensical is that? I mean I play T in tournaments but for randoming and have blizz pick random for me? I get flamed? LOL People don't think before they rage at you for playing Terran, it just happens, it's fucking stupid. Do I get raged at when I spawn Protoss and am way down in income because it's been 8 months and my macro slips, yet still trololol my way to victory with colossus and HT against a GM who I know for a fact is better than me TvP?
Nope, lol.
|
This upsets me.
My best matchup for a long time has been PvT. Had struggles against Z and PvP is a fucking joke.
|
I find TvT to be incredibly frustrating, and therefore don't end up playing as much. I love TvZ and TvP, though.
|
I have gone back and forth between T and Z (currently T). I think a lot of people are stopping playing terran because of the attitude towards T that everyone seems to have. One of the reasons i went back to T was because I was tired of ZvP and ZvZ and I wanted to play something different...
|
Well going macro mode in TvP is really frustrating (a-move chargelots). If your computer sucks, TvZ is a lagfest and you pretty much have to kill fast before you lag to death. TvT is more understood with a variety of builds and is more in depth then ZvZ and PvP, while seems like a good thing some people might want a simple mu where you just go fast lings and dance to the death i guess o.O
|
Now I want to say that once more (every time I see people complain about Terran being hard while watching pro Terrans being awesome at the GSL), I'm tempted to switch to Terran.
Let me put it bluntly:
Note that I have nothing to gain from mindlessly bragging like I will seem to do in the next paragraph.
I would consider myself as having good mechanics, I would go as far as to say that I have great mechanics (!). My macro doesn't slip up, I don't misclick, I don't miss an occasion to micro my units, I use 4 unit control groups in various dynamic configurations, and I rarely miss something on the minimap (like, I catch a drop that goes by the edge of a pylon vision, kills it with blink stalkers just to be called a maphacker, happens to me all the time :D). When a drop appears in my base, I watch the replay to see if I could have seen it earlier, nearly systematically. I honestly feel that when I lose, I lose because I made a bad decision and that's basically it (it's a great feeling), it's rarely my macro, my micro, a badly placed forcefield or mechanical errors like that. I trained myself for hours and hours on purely my mechanics and refining build orders, and not mass laddering at all. I'm a high level amateur violinist so my fingers were already quite agile to begin with. I tried a dozen mice to find the one that I'm the most comfortable with and hit my clicks precisely and the fastest possible. I studied pro-gamers hotkey settings to try to pick the one that would make me the fastest I could. I watched Bisu's FPVODs to try to grasp how he was moving around the map so much faster than the fastest SC2 players, and try to emulate that (don't get me wrong, I'm not Bisu, silly me, it's just to say that I'm not content with simply being fast like a SC2 pro streamer, and I work towards that). I'm neglecting completely playing ladder so my game sense is not that good, but that's the trade I chose to make to strengthen my mechanics to the maximum I could. My hope was that if I'm satisfied with my mechanics, I can start rolling through people on ladder and enjoying the strategic aspect of SC2.
I'm probably exagerating a bit of course, it still happens that I miss something, like everyone I guess, but I'm really proud of my mechanics. So assuming that all I'm claiming here is remotely true, should I switch to Terran from Protoss? Is it worth it or will I experience the same disappointement in my race as you guys feel.
Tl;dr; Do you guys feel that mechanics alone are a really big factor in Terran's demise on the ladder, or is is something else? If it's mechanics, I'm feeling like giving Terran a serious try.
Hoping that I will not get flamed for this, we'll see.
Btw I want to know if some other TL guys are mechanics maniacs like me and did the same things that I do, or if I'm just weird ;D
|
Can only speak for myself(as a pretty bad wannabe random player) and I often don't have fun when I play terran. With terran it feels like it's on me to set the pace and punish whatever z or p wants to do which doesn't seem to be fun for the opponents either. I like the mindgame(in lack of better words) potential like trying to force army control while dropping nukes and 100 other things like that with terran but I rarely get to play it that way, ironically perhaps because of my lack of creativity. Instead it feels like it's mostly punish punish punish punish kite kite kite kite kite kite kite kite.
|
Every ladder game I win I get so much shit for just being a Terran player.
"Wow, mutalisks flying into marines, mutalisks should win!"
"Holding off Six Gate? MMM is such a fucking joke"
etc. etc. etc.
Just browsing through this forum/LR's I feel the hate. I can understand why I only play TvT every other blue moon.
|
is there a large discrepancy? cuz one of them has to be played the least.
|
On December 14 2011 13:45 Badfatpanda wrote:
I played random until this this spring, switched to Terran because it had the most variety (yeah retarded reasoning coming from a random but hey ^^), now just switched back to random again because TvT has become retarded bio derping again.
The best thing about playing random is that when you spawn Terran (and I let people know my race, because I don't rely on a sham to win), is that i GET FLAMED FOR PLAYING TERRAN.
Think about it, how nonsensical is that? I mean I play T in tournaments but for randoming and have blizz pick random for me? I get flamed? LOL People don't think before they rage at you for playing Terran, it just happens, it's fucking stupid. Do I get raged at when I spawn Protoss and am way down in income because it's been 8 months and my macro slips, yet still trololol my way to victory with colossus and HT against a GM who I know for a fact is better than me TvP?
Nope, lol.
Just quick question, but why do a lot of terran players seem to hate "bio derping"? Mech for me is not fun at all, and I didn't play BW so I can't really comment on that but 25+ minutes of sitting in the middle of the map sieged trying to build up as much vikings/ravens as possible is NOT FUN. In TvT with marine tank positioning, multitasking and micro all are needed. I have way more fun with bio play than mech. Example: today I played a game where I went for a 3 rax scv all in but he got a bunker up so I just went bio after that vs. marine tank (not very smart) but we were sending units fucking everywhere, doing multi pronged attacks, trading expos etc. and it was the most fun tvt i had in a while  Kinda unrelated to the thread I know, sorry!
|
I think in terms of ACTIVE players, there are a lot less Terran players.
|
On December 14 2011 13:56 ReturnStroke wrote:
is there a large discrepancy? cuz one of them has to be played the least.
Pretty large. In plat and diamond there is only ~23/24% of players playing terran compared to like 36% of zerg and 30% playing toss.
|
Terran is just hard to play well for low leagues compare to Z and Toss :/
|
Terran is too hard at lower levels. Especially TvZ.
|
On December 14 2011 13:22 Ubenn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 13:16 LedFarmer wrote:
I actually switched from Zerg to Terran, for me I liked the flexible nature of Terran, I also try and play macro games, hardly ever stay on one base and don't ever 1-1-1 a Protoss.
I feel it's the most rewarding race to play late game, the multitasking macro/micro of late game especially in regards to late game.
Also I feel like Terran have more crisp timing attacks then any other race that pay off to have them really refined.
Zerg and Protoss are also a lot of fun, but when it comes down to it I like the micro of bio/drops leap frogging of tanks, and production cycles, something that Zerg and Protoss can't really satisfy me with.
Also my favorite players all play Terran, SlayerSMMA, IMMvp, STBomber are all great Terran role models for me to try and emulate.
I think one thing that might effect the reason you don't see as many Terrans on NA and EU is because you don't really have any great Terran names that come out of those regions, ( in comparison to Top level Korean players) where as with Protoss you have Huk/WhiteRa/Naniwa and Zerg Stephano/Idra that players can look to from their home servers.
That is my take on it at least. This has got to be a lie. You enjoy leap-frogging tanks?
Why would that be a lie? I find tank-based armies the most fun to use by far because they're the least 1a/big clump of units style you can play. setting up contains, slow pushing across the map, these things are a lot of fun once you get a feel for how to do it.
Even though I think Terran is the hardest, it's also the most fun because of tanks. Which consequently is part of the reason why TvP is fucking terrible.
|
terran nerfs have hit the diamond/master bracket very hard
|
On December 14 2011 13:58 IMoperator wrote:Just quick question, but why do a lot of terran players seem to hate "bio derping"? Mech for me is not fun at all, and I didn't play BW so I can't really comment on that but 25+ minutes of sitting in the middle of the map sieged trying to build up as much vikings/ravens as possible is NOT FUN. In TvT with marine tank positioning, multitasking and micro all are needed. I have way more fun with bio play than mech. Example: today I played a game where I went for a 3 rax scv all in but he got a bunker up so I just went bio after that vs. marine tank (not very smart) but we were sending units fucking everywhere, doing multi pronged attacks, trading expos etc. and it was the most fun tvt i had in a while Kinda unrelated to the thread I know, sorry!
Because most of the time it isn't even positioning, it's just two balls blobbing their way through the map ("positioning" sounds better").
Mech is true positioning, and the fact is is that good Mech players can systematically advance through the map, bad Mech players listen to Artosis ramble and hop on the bandwagon. They don't know what the fuck they're doing.
Most players have no patience at all; they'd rather use marines as an excuse to unsiege all of their tanks and move their ball halfway across the map and get caught out of position instead of being smart with "positioning".
Believe me it's a much more satisfying thrill to outplay someone instead of bashing heads.
|
I think we are seeing less terran in the diamond/master league because terran is the hardest race to play in that skill range. It's my theory that their are different imbalances throughout the skill spectrum, but as long as the game is balanced at the highest level of play then the pro-scene will continue to thrive.
for example in the in the GSL terran players make it a habit to target fire tanks at baneling clumps, they also have the reaction time and minimap awareness to park hellions outside a zerg base without getting them surrounded by a sudden ling surge. tvz is balanced around these aspects of pro-play.
However diamond/master league terrans, because of their lack of mechanics, have to play a much harder version of tvz until they can find a way to get better.
this poll from a couple months ago shows some evidence
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=271162
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
