• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:27
CET 12:27
KST 20:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1830
StarCraft 2
General
Coinbase Refund Problems: Why You Didn’t Get Your Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1241 users

I feel Starcraft 2 is very passive. - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 25 26 27 Next All
motumbo
Profile Joined February 2011
United States130 Posts
November 23 2011 05:03 GMT
#41
I really don't think this comparison is worthwhile at all. Brood War has developed so much and the player's mechanics in that game were far beyond those of who are playing SC2 right now so they could macro perfectly and constantly use their units in various ways since they knew what to do with them because BW was figured out.
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
November 23 2011 05:03 GMT
#42
Yeah I wish the balance of action would spread out better... its either extremely powerful cheese / timing pushes.... or turtle to death ball. In either case the game ends really fast with either timing push ending teh game quickly, or non activity to max army and its over so fast.
Part of the reason is death ball and the units clump up hard on one screen... maybe bring back bw unit spacing where army stretches out across a few screens... or if that is impossible really nerf the deathballs/aoe spells...
Korste
Profile Joined August 2011
United States64 Posts
November 23 2011 05:04 GMT
#43
I'm interested to see how sc2 games will change when/if the bw players come over.
eSuBuildings
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States71 Posts
November 23 2011 05:07 GMT
#44
Damn slugga, that's a lot of edits .__.
"In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
November 23 2011 05:07 GMT
#45
macro games are somewhat passive because the game is far from figured out.

we wont reach BW status for many many years because of expans
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
November 23 2011 05:08 GMT
#46
On November 23 2011 13:59 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 13:50 Raiznhell wrote:
1) bigger maps, need a ton of HUGE maps
2) no unlimited unit selection.
3) a bit more ridiculousness. like in BW 2 tanks behind a wall would kill infinity dragoons if they tried to bust but in sc2 protoss wouldn't even notice the fact they are being shelled when they right click on the supply depot kill it walk through then click on the tanks one by one and then just win.


Disagree, tanks can do quite a lot o.o

I do think a limited unit selection would be good tho (they have one actually im pretty sure, like 160 units, but it could be smaller, not like BW of course, but where you need to think just a little, like maybe 64 or something lol)


i think 32 would make sense as it would be essential one tab of 4x8 units
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
bennyaus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1833 Posts
November 23 2011 05:11 GMT
#47
I watched the last proleague finals, and I saw like 3 zergs do a 3 hatch hydra all-in against Protoss. Then I remembered how people complained about how there was too many all-ins in SC2, or that the macro games suck.

Get a grip. Just because you can post one youtube example of a sick BW game (which is a game that was pro for 8-9 years by that stage) does not exclude the fact that many of them were quite similar to SC2 games. There are plenty of passive games, plenty of all-ins. Both games are interesting in their own ways. I can also find vods of sick late-game SC2 games, like an earlier poster mentioned. Thorzain vs MC in TSL was quite memorable, and HuK vs Moon at Dreamhack group stage as well. This is excluding the fact that TvZ/ZvT in SC2 is almost awesome in every match provided it gets past the 10min mark.
I play Random - HuK, DRG + Liquid fan
ThaZenith
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3116 Posts
November 23 2011 05:12 GMT
#48
SC2 isn't BW, and never will be.

It'll keep evolving, but it's still just going to evolve into a better SC2.

ptrpb
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada753 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 05:13:40
November 23 2011 05:12 GMT
#49
We are only at one stage of the game, and this is what a lot of people who make posts and threads about this stuff don't understand. SC2 does not stop here, and it doesn't continue in a linear fashion. We didn't see a lot of SC1 and in BW the progress throughout the game was similar to SC2. Do not compare SC2 to BW without taking into account the timeline. BW has been around since '98 and SC2 has been out for a year and a bit, if anything compare BW after a year to SC2 after a year.
Is the current play less exciting that BW today? Yes it is, because the game has not been nearly fleshed out as BW; one we know everyone about SC2 and HotS and whatever comes next, then we'll start to see that crisp and exciting play.
MBAACC | SG | shit at fighting games
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 05:14:06
November 23 2011 05:13 GMT
#50
On November 23 2011 14:11 bennyaus wrote:
I watched the last proleague finals, and I saw like 3 zergs do a 3 hatch hydra all-in against Protoss. Then I remembered how people complained about how there was too many all-ins in SC2, or that the macro games suck.

Get a grip. Just because you can post one youtube example of a sick BW game (which is a game that was pro for 8-9 years by that stage) does not exclude the fact that many of them were quite similar to SC2 games. There are plenty of passive games, plenty of all-ins. Both games are interesting in their own ways. I can also find vods of sick late-game SC2 games, like an earlier poster mentioned. Thorzain vs MC in TSL was quite memorable, and HuK vs Moon at Dreamhack group stage as well. This is excluding the fact that TvZ/ZvT in SC2 is almost awesome in every match provided it gets past the 10min mark.


the problem is:
sc2: 1 sick late game engagement = gg
bw: can produce prolonged sick engagements throughout the game

that's undeniable
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
Nizzy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States839 Posts
November 23 2011 05:13 GMT
#51
SC2 is more like WC3 than BW which is wrong. 'Balls of armies, and more spell casters than BW" that perfectly describes SC2/WC3.
Lavi
Profile Joined November 2011
Bangladesh793 Posts
November 23 2011 05:15 GMT
#52
Yeah probably better to just say SC2 and BW is two different game but similar name and some units...
what about that rumor I heard about starcraft pheonix though something like a graphically updated BW or was that false?
Seiferz
Profile Joined May 2011
United States640 Posts
November 23 2011 05:17 GMT
#53
From what that blizzard employ casting with Artosis at MLG said, it appears that they're making maps larger over time. Really really large maps might have seemed a little overwhelming on release, but as the game grows and evolves I'm sure we'll see more BW-esque maps that'll allow for more of the engagements you're talking about.
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 05:26:06
November 23 2011 05:19 GMT
#54
I gotta disagree with the OP. I certainly agree that BW macro games are more fun to watch than SC2 macro games. But you've got the "why" completely wrong.

There's several things that makes BW games look more epic than SC2:

1. SC2 shows much more screenspace than SC1. In SC1 we were always stuck with a 4:3 aspect ratio with tiny resolutions. In SC2 we have access to 16 and 16:10 and higher resolutions, which means we see *much* more stuff in SC2. Put SC2 into 4:3 aspect mode, gimp down the resolution, and then suddenly armies "look" more like BW. But nobody is going to do that with SC2 if they have the option for a better spectating experience.

2. SC2 has much more unit clumping than BW. If you take a screenshot of 20 SC2 Zealots and map them onto 20 SC1 Zealots then its pretty easy to see the difference.

3. Limited unit selection rewards multiprong attacks and hurts straight up pushes. So the action in BW was always much more spread over the map.

4. BW did not have any spectator tabs. You can find out very quickly in a game like Boxer vs Rain what each player is making via looking up at the tab. But in BW you gotta scramble all around the map to check which production facilities are active, and individually check to see what each player is building.

Those are the only reasons why imo. Maps and resource collection rate has nothing to do with it. Sure, MLG and Ladder maps are too small, but GSL maps are as large as MSL OSL. They simply *look* smaller due to the above two things.

There's no way that Blizzard is going to gimp their game just to make it more BW-y. Sure it might make SC2 a better spectator experience, but it would make SC2 a much worse playing experience. SC2 is much more popular now worldwide than BW ever was because unlike SC1, SC2 is a much easier game to play. More players translates into more viewers. Korea was the exception, not the rule.
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
November 23 2011 05:19 GMT
#55
On November 23 2011 14:13 Doraemon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 14:11 bennyaus wrote:
I watched the last proleague finals, and I saw like 3 zergs do a 3 hatch hydra all-in against Protoss. Then I remembered how people complained about how there was too many all-ins in SC2, or that the macro games suck.

Get a grip. Just because you can post one youtube example of a sick BW game (which is a game that was pro for 8-9 years by that stage) does not exclude the fact that many of them were quite similar to SC2 games. There are plenty of passive games, plenty of all-ins. Both games are interesting in their own ways. I can also find vods of sick late-game SC2 games, like an earlier poster mentioned. Thorzain vs MC in TSL was quite memorable, and HuK vs Moon at Dreamhack group stage as well. This is excluding the fact that TvZ/ZvT in SC2 is almost awesome in every match provided it gets past the 10min mark.


the problem is:
sc2: 1 sick late game engagement = gg
bw: can produce prolonged sick engagements throughout the game

that's undeniable

Did you even watch the Thorzain v. MC game he was talking about? No that's not undeniable. It's wrong
Hokay
Profile Joined May 2007
United States738 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 05:21:50
November 23 2011 05:20 GMT
#56
I've had the same feelings as the OP for awhile. SC2 just isn't designed a certain way to make more epic and more entertaining macro games than BW, for many reasons already stated. SC2 is still awesome, but it is inferior to BW from a spectator point of view imo. Hopefully the 2 expansions and map designs changes that.
eSuBuildings
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States71 Posts
November 23 2011 05:21 GMT
#57
On November 23 2011 14:12 ptrpb wrote:
We are only at one stage of the game, and this is what a lot of people who make posts and threads about this stuff don't understand. SC2 does not stop here, and it doesn't continue in a linear fashion. We didn't see a lot of SC1 and in BW the progress throughout the game was similar to SC2. Do not compare SC2 to BW without taking into account the timeline. BW has been around since '98 and SC2 has been out for a year and a bit, if anything compare BW after a year to SC2 after a year.
Is the current play less exciting that BW today? Yes it is, because the game has not been nearly fleshed out as BW; one we know everyone about SC2 and HotS and whatever comes next, then we'll start to see that crisp and exciting play.


I have taken the timeline into account, I know they're two entirely different games and should not yet be compared in too much depth. I'm speculating different methods to make watching professional starcraft more exciting. If you go to Korea you see thousands upon thousands of people screaming and cheering for the genius plays and tactics that the BW pros perform, the audience loves all of the action that is happening. Then you go to a foreign SC2 tournament where you have the same situation except toned down. You will have a very attentive crowd and you will only hear those excited screams and shouts whenever a ridiculously good and creative play happens, a huge huge lead is taken, or a giant fight occurs. But until then, you'll hear lots of oooh's and ahhh's.

If we had the same kind of macro games that BW did, where there was excitement upon every level and on every corner of the map, imagine how that would attract people? We already have spectators that don't play, but still watch because they find the game interesting. There are still those people that find the game boring to watch because of all of the waiting that happens. We could expand the scene even further by appealing to more people.
"In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
November 23 2011 05:22 GMT
#58
On November 23 2011 14:19 JDub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 14:13 Doraemon wrote:
On November 23 2011 14:11 bennyaus wrote:
I watched the last proleague finals, and I saw like 3 zergs do a 3 hatch hydra all-in against Protoss. Then I remembered how people complained about how there was too many all-ins in SC2, or that the macro games suck.

Get a grip. Just because you can post one youtube example of a sick BW game (which is a game that was pro for 8-9 years by that stage) does not exclude the fact that many of them were quite similar to SC2 games. There are plenty of passive games, plenty of all-ins. Both games are interesting in their own ways. I can also find vods of sick late-game SC2 games, like an earlier poster mentioned. Thorzain vs MC in TSL was quite memorable, and HuK vs Moon at Dreamhack group stage as well. This is excluding the fact that TvZ/ZvT in SC2 is almost awesome in every match provided it gets past the 10min mark.


the problem is:
sc2: 1 sick late game engagement = gg
bw: can produce prolonged sick engagements throughout the game

that's undeniable

Did you even watch the Thorzain v. MC game he was talking about? No that's not undeniable. It's wrong


sigh. how can you make an argument through a pool of 1 game.
i have watched 6 years of bw and since the release sc2, and that was my honest opinion.
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
S2Glow
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Singapore1042 Posts
November 23 2011 05:23 GMT
#59
On November 23 2011 14:13 Nizzy wrote:
SC2 is more like WC3 than BW which is wrong. 'Balls of armies, and more spell casters than BW" that perfectly describes SC2/WC3.


Atleast WC3 require lots of MICRO .
<3 Katelyn , C Zerg. Dying wish is to watch proleague live and see my girlfriend which gonna be soon! <33
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
November 23 2011 05:24 GMT
#60
On November 23 2011 14:04 Korste wrote:
I'm interested to see how sc2 games will change when/if the bw players come over.


What are Flash,Jaedong,Bisu is going to do with the extra 300 apm ? even boxer,nada,july are players with great achievement under their belt can't do much for the game or revolutionize the game to the extend you wanted like Bisu's PvZ revolution against savior . DB with his statement that " If you don't like sc2 play Bw " is not a attitude ,a developer like him should have , At least valve are actually listening to the pro's with the upcoming Dota 2 and CS Global offensive , it's good to see old names like Ksharp,Frod,Nothing back in action .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 25 26 27 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 77
CranKy Ducklings44
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 173
BRAT_OK 92
SC2Nice 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 65895
Horang2 2869
Sea 2316
Mini 428
Soma 379
firebathero 281
actioN 267
BeSt 245
Snow 245
Shuttle 243
[ Show more ]
Mong 212
ZerO 205
Hyun 178
Last 176
EffOrt 158
Hyuk 128
hero 112
Pusan 108
ggaemo 107
Rush 95
Light 87
Dewaltoss 63
Sharp 62
Mind 47
Killer 43
sorry 42
Nal_rA 39
Sea.KH 35
ZergMaN 32
Barracks 29
Sexy 27
Terrorterran 18
GoRush 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Icarus 16
Noble 13
zelot 12
ivOry 12
SilentControl 10
Dota 2
XcaliburYe93
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1388
shoxiejesuss1165
fl0m639
allub199
edward43
Other Games
summit1g9563
singsing2234
ceh9563
B2W.Neo406
crisheroes235
Sick193
Mew2King84
Livibee71
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2380
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 1194
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1310
• Lourlo783
• Stunt346
• TFBlade281
Upcoming Events
OSC
33m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d
All Star Teams
1d 14h
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
All Star Teams
2 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.