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On November 27 2011 07:43 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 07:26 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 27 2011 07:23 BandonBanshee wrote:
can we stop using "SC2 IS A YOUNG GAME" as an excuse for glaring problems with it? .... Can you compare BW after 1.5/2 years to BW now? Honestly... How is that even a remotely comparable scenario? There were no esports back then. Nothing was figured out. No set build orders, etc. SC2 has progressed more in 1.5 years than BW has progressed over its first 7 or so years. Because there wer already tournaments at release, extensive balance testing, progamers in prohouses playing 12+ hours a day, etc. Utterly laughable to compare it to BW where there were no progamers, no intricate knowledge of RTS in general, etc. SC2 has been "figured out" faster than any RTS in history most likely.
How in the name of hell can you possibly know that after just two years and with MORE fucking expansions coming?
God people are so ignorant sometimes.
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OP - watch Dreamhack Winter 2011 Finals.
Idk what you are talking about.
Its just that the difference in skill level between BW pros and SC2 is still very great. Maybe not mechanically, but knowledge wise? Hell yes.
BW has been played for over 10 years at a top tier level. SC2? about a 1/10 of BW's lifetime.
Watch the strategies that players used in 2006, 2007, 2008. Looks similar to SC2 doesn't it? What about now in 2011? Looks way more intense eh? Maybe that's because 3+ years later, the players, you know, get better. Or do I misunderstand why progamers practice?
Nice try to flame a game that you don't understand, and probably aren't that good at. But please, next time, save it for yourself.
To say that BW macro games aren't passive is naive and proves that you don't know what you are talking about. Some are passive, some aren't it depends on the maps, the players, and the scouting that each has. If a player thinks they have an opening (just like in SC2) they will take it, if they aren't sure and money/fame/honor is on the line, they won't risk it. Its called being smart, and careful, which is how you win in ANY sport that you look at. Overly aggressive players/teams/whatever work for short periods of time in any game (Wildcat offense anyone?) but eventually become better understood, and fall out of fashion in favor of safe, smart, reactionary play.
Also - your argument about pathing is silly. BW was a game that had to cut corners in order to run efficiently. Think about the common computer running BW in 2000, even 2005. They are less than 1/10th the power of the average computer running SC2 now. This means that the game's designers don't have to use a terrible pathing algorithm in order to ensure the game actually is playable. Again, clumping actually makes professional level micro WAY harder, because of the increased efficiency of AoE, top tier players need to split their units way better than they had to in BW, since the units were already somewhat split.
TLDR - Just because player's don't do it now, doesn't mean that it won't be useful in the future. You aren't a psychic, stop trying to say what will happen in the future. All you can do is look at the data we have with BW, WC3, and other RTS and then compare them to the lifespan of SC2. There are passive matches in all of these games, not just SC2.
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can't tell if trolling of just plainly stupid.
all discussions can be solved with the "wait and see" solution. That doesnt mean shit. How do we know if....? Well how do you know the next expansions are not just gonna suck balls and the new and improved shitty shredders and tempests are gonna ensure even more passive play.
shut the fuck up and let people discuss. god forbids if someone has an intelligent discussion and tries to point out some flaw that needs fixing.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 27 2011 08:51 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 07:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 27 2011 07:26 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 27 2011 07:23 BandonBanshee wrote:
can we stop using "SC2 IS A YOUNG GAME" as an excuse for glaring problems with it? .... Can you compare BW after 1.5/2 years to BW now? Honestly... How is that even a remotely comparable scenario? There were no esports back then. Nothing was figured out. No set build orders, etc. SC2 has progressed more in 1.5 years than BW has progressed over its first 7 or so years. Because there wer already tournaments at release, extensive balance testing, progamers in prohouses playing 12+ hours a day, etc. Utterly laughable to compare it to BW where there were no progamers, no intricate knowledge of RTS in general, etc. SC2 has been "figured out" faster than any RTS in history most likely. How in the name of hell can you possibly know that after just two years and with MORE fucking expansions coming? God people are so ignorant sometimes.
His point is not ignorant at all. There was no infrastructure of skill, build orders, media, etc. in BW like there is in SC2 (till much later). His point stands.
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On November 27 2011 09:04 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 08:51 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 27 2011 07:43 FabledIntegral wrote:On November 27 2011 07:26 Flonomenalz wrote:On November 27 2011 07:23 BandonBanshee wrote:
can we stop using "SC2 IS A YOUNG GAME" as an excuse for glaring problems with it? .... Can you compare BW after 1.5/2 years to BW now? Honestly... How is that even a remotely comparable scenario? There were no esports back then. Nothing was figured out. No set build orders, etc. SC2 has progressed more in 1.5 years than BW has progressed over its first 7 or so years. Because there wer already tournaments at release, extensive balance testing, progamers in prohouses playing 12+ hours a day, etc. Utterly laughable to compare it to BW where there were no progamers, no intricate knowledge of RTS in general, etc. SC2 has been "figured out" faster than any RTS in history most likely. How in the name of hell can you possibly know that after just two years and with MORE fucking expansions coming? God people are so ignorant sometimes. His point is not ignorant at all. There was no infrastructure of skill, build orders, media, etc. in BW like there is in SC2 (till much later). His point stands.
I still don't see how people are predicting the future after just two years. Look at the DH finals that just ended seconds ago. Insane game play. That's all I'm going to say here, you guys can sit here and make BW comparisons and SC2 is lame jokes all you want, we're loving it.
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Man.... I love watching BW so much more :'(. Hope shit will get better with the expansions
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I like how a lot of the arguments people are still using are very, very old and been said about a million times.
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Osaka27156 Posts
This thread has just become a screaming match.
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EPT
