|
Don't say Corruptors, everybody should know by now they are not an option.
1) They offer nothing to fight the standing army once the colossi have been dealt with, as we have seen over and over in pro games.
2) They are weak vs basically every non-colossus unit.
Void rays, stalkers and archons all kill corruptors a lot faster than corruptors kill colossi, so to even send them in, one must support his corruptors with a donated ground army.
3) Corruptors just aren't that good against Colossi... or anything else for that matter.
Corruptors deal 14(+6vs massive) damage a shot with a 1.9 sec CD. This amounts to about 10 DPS. For reference, Roaches do 7.5 DPS and Stalkers do 8 vs armored units. When 6 colossi threaten to wipe ou your entire army in <10 seconds, no amount of corruptors can kill them fast enough.
I think those 3 points solve any corruptor arguments, so let's move on to the other Zerg options.
The Infestor
While the Infestor used to act as a hard counter to colossi and offered general utilty vs everything else, Blizzard decided Zerg shouldn't have good units so they slapped the infestor with a double nerf after having just barely made them viable.
While I did not disagree with the fungal nerf, the NP nerf seemed excessive and unnecessary.
Currently, NP at 7 range is all but worthless and fungal growth never countered the colossus itself, rather it gives options vs other units effectively allowing Zerg to dump resources here and not die to the rest of Ps army (the corruptor syndrome).
A BADASS GROUND ARMY (everything from lings to ultras)
Unless Z has the economy to bury his opponent in money, he generally won't have a favorable engagement for targetting Colossi down given that:
1) Colossi hard counter lings and hydras
2) Stalkers take up a lot of room and have blink, and therefore make great mobile walls between Zs army and the colossus
3) Forcefields make even better walls.
Bane Rain
I would lump this in the same category as fungal, it obviously works very well in tandem with that ability. Great against everything else, not so great against the Colossus itself.
Mutas
Probably the best option currently?
Mutas, in modern play, make Colossi a non-issue because they can't shoot up. That being said, Mutas are hard to transition both into and out of.
Rushing is risky and tech switching to them in the late game demands that Z save up well over 1k gas (often 2k+) because small numbers of mutalisks are ineffective. Once Z has gone mutas, he is generally stuck with that tech until the game has been determined one way or another. Mutas can easily devour 4 bases worth of gas and keeping number high is critically important, once you start, you don't have the gas to switch to anything else.
So, I'm not trying to kick up a whine-fest, and I hope this thread produces some decent discussion. I just want to ask the question "Does Zerg have a counter to the Colossus?"
|
|
|
Don't tell me not to say corruptors. They counter colossus, they're clearly even from what you've described, Zerg's best option.
The other thing you need to do to supplement corruptors is make sure the rest of your army *doesn't die that fast*. i.e. not too many hydras or lings, a lot of roach, and a lot of lines of attack so colossi don't splash too much.
It's how zerg has managed for the last year, don't just disregard it and say there are no options.
|
Ah hell, you're right.
Mod plz move to strategy section.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
More bases + Harass + Punish immobility?
Don't really see why you'd ever try to beat a Colossi ball without the ability to instantly remax
|
Be 2x better than your opponent.
|
it is corruptors? I don't understand...
|
Considering how corruptors rape Collo, I'm gonna go with corruptors.
They have this ability called corruption that nobody uses but it's actually pretty good too.
Btw the first two lines about the infestor got me a good laugh and stopped reading there.
|
The best counter ! MMmmm The corruptor ?
But seriously, all the units can beat the collosis. Zergling can beat collosis when they are surround and even drones can beat lonely colosis.
|
Corruptors only work at this situation:
Be 2x better than your opponent.
I personally found that ground banelings can dish a considerable amount of damage. Having several of them on ovies helps too, but you will need to find a way to deal with the FFs so the banelings can do their job.
|
On November 16 2011 01:30 ShinyGerbil wrote:
Don't tell me not to say corruptors. They counter colossus, they're clearly even from what you've described, Zerg's best option.
The other thing you need to do to supplement corruptors is make sure the rest of your army *doesn't die that fast*. i.e. not too many hydras or lings, a lot of roach, and a lot of lines of attack so colossi don't splash too much.
It's how zerg has managed for the last year, don't just disregard it and say there are no options.
This is the right answer.
Can't disregard the designed counter and ask for the counter. You can say that you're looking for another way to deal w/ colossi that doesn't force BL tech to make use of the extra corruptors, but not that Zerg can't kill colossi.
|
Dude, this has been gone over a million times, it's not like the infestor/broodlord deathball has a counter either, you have to kill it in other ways like other posters have described.
|
Don't listen to idra. Corrupters work fine. Just don't max on hydra roach corrupter, attack off creep, and expect to beat collosus stalker sentry ht. Trade units.
|
@lichter
That is exactly where I am trying to target.
Given the ability to instantly remax, if one does not kill at least half of his opponents colossus in the first wave, it is unlikely Zerg will ever win that fight due to the mechanics of remaxing and how fast colossus kill stuff.
What would that first-wave army consist of so that one could kill the colossus, and have time to remax before P outright kills them?
|
On November 16 2011 01:27 Jermstuddog wrote:
1) They offer nothing to fight the standing army once the colossi have been dealt with, as we have seen over and over in pro games.
Don't over-produce corrupters....
This thread just sounds like you have an inability to micro your corrupters within your zerg ball
|
zerg was never meant to a-move into a deathball and win. Learn to catch units out of position and/or flank with corruptors etc.
|
On November 16 2011 01:36 MassacrisM wrote:Corruptors only work at this situation: I personally found that ground banelings can dish a considerable amount of damage. Having several of them on ovies helps too, but you will need to find a way to deal with the FFs so the banelings can do their job.
In supply terms, Zerg has always had to double macro a Protoss. Against some compositions, it's even more. Not that big a deal.
|
This should go in the strategy forum (with 1500 posts, shouldn't you know that by now?). That aside, I don't think that you're approaching the problem in the right way. You shouldn't just look for "what unit will counter his unit?" you should heed lichter's advice and deal with the strategic weaknesses of the Protoss Colossus Ball by using harassment options to punish the inability for the ball to be able to be split up.
So, I guess the answer is no, there is no magical unit composition that will just crush Colossus. You're going to have to think about how all the aspects of the game work in a broader context than just max vs. max armies.
|
The Viper? :p
But seriously just make peace with the fact that we have no real answer to it. Mutas and infestors are both good, viable tech paths that can deal with collossi based armies, as proven by a lot of pro gamers.
|
Roaches do 8 dps without upgrades and stalkers do 9.7 dps vs armored.
The reason a MAXED Protoss wipes out a Zerg army maxed on Roaches and Corrupters is because the Zerg army costs about 2/3 of the Protoss army. Roaches and Corrupters do fine vs Protoss balls in equal army costs.
Go Broodlords with Infestor support vs a maxed Protoss ball. They basically counter every ground army Protoss ball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
