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On October 27 2011 17:26 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 13:30 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Frick I just noticed... 7 range war hounds means no more Thor/Hellion vs BLs  . Battle hellions will roast broodlings faster, means your 'hounds can close the gap more easily, and the smaller size means more shots will go off. I forsee a mech revolution in all matchups, even if the WH's ground attack blows, you can still compliment them with siege tanks and battle hellions/banshees/ravens to have a crushingly strong force.
i think Ultras will destroy every Mech army with the new Chargeability.
Especially since you have no Thors to block them/do insane damage. Siegelines will get destroyed easily. And we still need viking/ghost for infestors since Thors arent in the game anymore (what yoshi kiriwshima said).
But its only theorycrafting. Could go anyway too with some buff/patch
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On October 27 2011 04:51 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 03:44 ShatterZer0 wrote:On October 27 2011 03:03 Alpina wrote:On October 27 2011 02:49 crown77 wrote:
I heard Dustin B. say that the splash is bigger than the thor's was. I'm curious if you can use them in tvp as a goliath. I passionately hated that you like had to make marines in the beginning of tvp if you smelled voidray or even robo units you kind of need marines.
I don't know if it's going to stay this way but I heard in one of those blizzcon videos that david kim said the warhound does extra damage vs mech... and he said that every unit besides the zealot was mech in the protoss army.... im not sure if flying units are counted in that or not but kind of exciting that they want to see more mech in tvp in hots. If it's really bigger then it's stupid. Splash should be smaller, just like archon's. The Archons splash was always pretty big... actually.. EXACTLY the same size as a Siege Tank shot. Archons have MORE splash then Thors. really? o_O It always looked like thors have way bigger splash...
Archon splash is massive, way bigger than it looks. That's the reason the Archon toliet continues to be effective, even after the invincibility after vortex nerf... the splash is so huge that the units can't get far enough away in time (especially broods).
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I wonder if it will feature the Multi-Lock Weapons System
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/2/25/Multi-lockWeaponsSystem_SC2_Icon1.jpg)
Goliaths can target air and ground units simultaneously.
Because you know.... Warhound IS the Goliath, only uglier.
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On October 27 2011 17:41 Sallek wrote:I wonder if it will feature the Multi-Lock Weapons System Because you know.... Warhound IS the Goliath, only uglier.
Hopefully not, since it will then be balanced around doing both attacks(since else it'd be OP) and therefore make both attacks weaker.
On October 27 2011 16:04 iko wrote:
If the Warhound is going to be another unit where the majority of the damage is +light, it will be just as much of a piece of shit as the Thor is. You can keep up against Mutalisks with a large number of Thors, but the moment the Zerg turns his larvae into Broodlords and Infestors instead of Mutalisks, they're toast.
The problem with the Thor is that it's average vs light units unless they clump, and it's a liability against armored air. The Warhound needs to just have a flat base attack without any bonus to either. The biggest problems with mech is that you have trouble dealing with Void Rays, Carriers, Broodlords and Battlecruisers.
The Viking is not a good enough substitute, being on a seperate weapon upgrade tree and requiring a Starport makes it harder for mech builds to get a decent amount of them, and in the case of TvT having no good ground unit to kill Armored Air just turns things into Viking Wars. Having a portion of your supply being up in the air unable to assist your Siege Tanks and Hellions without a lengthy, clunky animation is what's holding back Mech in TvP.
Perhaps if the Viking could be built from the Factory aswell (with a restriction of not being able to lift without a Starport) and would benefit from either ground or air upgrades (but never both simultaneously) they'd be an acceptable replacement. But since they've gone with the Warhound approach, I guess that's a forlorn idea.
tl;dr: Mech needs the Goliath to be successful, not smaller Thors.
This is just so spot on, I had to quote it. What the warhound needs to do is to counter air in general, not just mutalisks. The upgrades of the viking tbh aren't so much issue and aren't the reason why it cannot be the AA the mech army needs. It's slowness to land and the fact it cannot be produced out of the factory hinders terran mech to being able to adjust their composition depending on what gets scouted. The upgrades are really just top of the barrel. So here's hoping that they don't get to focused on simply having the warhound "AA against mutalisks".
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On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap.
Considering how easily this guy roflstomps every protoss unit other than void, immo and zealot atm, I think it should cost much more, maybe something similar to the immortal/void. Make it good and expensive I say.
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>Frick I just noticed... 7 range war hounds means no more Thor/Hellion vs BLs
Thors did like 20 damage per 2 second volley against broodlords if both are unupgraded, definitely not the best use of 300/200/6.
You could probably kill 2 thors and badly hurt a third thor with 1 BL,
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On October 27 2011 18:19 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap. Make it good and expensive I say.
Cheap and average is the entire reason it exists. Good and expensive was the Thor, and it sucked.
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On October 27 2011 18:42 iko wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 18:19 Salteador Neo wrote:On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap. Make it good and expensive I say. Cheap and average is the entire reason it exists. Good and expensive was the Thor, and it sucked.
Yeah, we want a decent mech unit we can mass up.
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On October 27 2011 20:23 Zorgaz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 18:42 iko wrote:On October 27 2011 18:19 Salteador Neo wrote:On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap. Make it good and expensive I say. Cheap and average is the entire reason it exists. Good and expensive was the Thor, and it sucked. Yeah, we want a decent mech unit we can mass up.
Protoss can kinda mass up immortals and they are expensive  There are a lot of numbers between 150/75 and the thor (300/200 if my memory does not fail?).
Versatile units can't be too good at anything. Look at the stalker. IMO the stats of this thing vs ground are way too good to cost 150/75 so it's gonna change either the attack or the cost, or do it later after they realize it's op.
Btw I also want a decent mech unit that can attack air and make mech viable. I miss BW PvTs.
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I can't see mech being he norm if you still need Viking for everything beside Muta in the air.
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On October 27 2011 18:19 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap. Considering how easily this guy roflstomps every protoss unit other than void, immo and zealot atm, I think it should cost much more, maybe something similar to the immortal/void. Make it good and expensive I say.
Hum, I don't think so. Just compare it to a maurauder.
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On October 27 2011 04:51 Alpina wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 03:44 ShatterZer0 wrote:On October 27 2011 03:03 Alpina wrote:On October 27 2011 02:49 crown77 wrote:
I heard Dustin B. say that the splash is bigger than the thor's was. I'm curious if you can use them in tvp as a goliath. I passionately hated that you like had to make marines in the beginning of tvp if you smelled voidray or even robo units you kind of need marines.
I don't know if it's going to stay this way but I heard in one of those blizzcon videos that david kim said the warhound does extra damage vs mech... and he said that every unit besides the zealot was mech in the protoss army.... im not sure if flying units are counted in that or not but kind of exciting that they want to see more mech in tvp in hots. If it's really bigger then it's stupid. Splash should be smaller, just like archon's. The Archons splash was always pretty big... actually.. EXACTLY the same size as a Siege Tank shot. Archons have MORE splash then Thors. really? o_O It always looked like thors have way bigger splash...
Magic box'd mutas are not that spread out, but thors only hit one. It's pretty small splash.
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I've always found Thor's air splash was similar to what a colossus would splash against ground, I'm not sure of exact mechanics but I'd say the spread of 3 marauders in a horizontal line.
The warhound will def be smaller as they said, but i'd say it'd be 2 marauders width.
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On October 27 2011 23:06 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 18:19 Salteador Neo wrote:On October 27 2011 16:05 Ganseng wrote:
i heard that these things cost 150m/75 g right now. which is really cheap. Considering how easily this guy roflstomps every protoss unit other than void, immo and zealot atm, I think it should cost much more, maybe something similar to the immortal/void. Make it good and expensive I say. Hum, I don't think so. Just compare it to a maurauder.
The bonus is vs mechanical rather than armored, though, and a lot of toss units are mechanical. 20 damage a shot to anything on the ground that's not a templar or zealot, and 4x4 to voids.
I expect the warhound to be better than the marauder TvP(assuming the numbers stay the same), but I doubt it'll be OP.
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On October 28 2011 00:51 Zariel wrote:
I've always found Thor's air splash was similar to what a colossus would splash against ground, I'm not sure of exact mechanics but I'd say the spread of 3 marauders in a horizontal line.
The warhound will def be smaller as they said, but i'd say it'd be 2 marauders width.
You didn't read any of the comments in the thread did you?
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On October 27 2011 04:26 TheOGBlitzKrieg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 04:14 phyre112 wrote:On October 27 2011 03:59 koppik wrote:
The thor's splash radius was the smallest splash radius in the game already. I don't think they can really make it smaller for the warhound.
Like archon splash radius for the warhound would be good, I think. If you want to give it archon splash radius, then give it archon range too (3). Archons are "supposed" to be a good counter to mutalisks right now, but "how much damage you deal" against mutalisks is completely irrelevant when most units can't catch them (except blink stalkers and stimmed marines, or a lucky storm.) if archons were supposed to be the counter for mutalisks why did they make the tempest? shoulda just buffed archons
What about High Templars? Protoss has plenty of ways to counter Mutas, I don't see why they need Another cold counter. :/
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As a zerg player who loves mutas, I'm dubious, but the purpose of mutas now it seems will be to force the terran to make this otherwise useless unit instead of their tank production, allowing zerg to swarm in on the ground. The problem though is that marines will still trump mutas anyways, so I see terrans just relying MORE on bio then before.
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On November 08 2011 03:39 Shiladie wrote:
As a zerg player who loves mutas, I'm dubious, but the purpose of mutas now it seems will be to force the terran to make this otherwise useless unit instead of their tank production, allowing zerg to swarm in on the ground. The problem though is that marines will still trump mutas anyways, so I see terrans just relying MORE on bio then before.
A cool example of a straight up bio army with Medivacs game would be the GSL Code A November Round of 48, Day 1 Match 6 Game 3 between Startales.Curious and OGs.theSTC. Being a Zerg player this is how to counter beautifullly...(If you can stomach the commentary )
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i think one of the most interesting changes that the thor brought was how mutalisk micro became so different depending on the situation you are in. it was such a huge change when julyzerg brought the overlord clumping trick to BW, and now standard zvt micro in sc2 is much more variable and clumping up can lose you a game easy.
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On October 27 2011 17:41 Sallek wrote:I wonder if it will feature the Multi-Lock Weapons System Because you know.... Warhound IS the Goliath, only uglier.
You are talking about the campagn goliath not the real one. In bw goliath can't hit both at the same time
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EPT
