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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 16:07 samd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:03 Ventor wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. How often do you see pros getting mass hellions to counter charglot archon? Never. If you are not familiar with high level play, there is no need to post such nonsense. Do you understand how metagaming works? The reason no one went heavy chargelots in pro play is because the threat of BFH shutting it down was always there. Now that its not that way anymore there is literally no cost effective counter to chargelots, and i guarantee you if these changes stick we'll be seeing it a LOT more
Uhhh have you even watched late game PvT recently (I know it's a bit hard to do that with the 1-1-1 killing everyone though) But Chargelot/Archon/HT is the current metagame.
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This is seriously one of the best patch notes I've ever seen in theory. It seems that Blizzard has find amazing ways to deal with too strong or too weak units! I love it!
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Ha ha ha , so you are afraid to see that's your apm is only 50 lol?
I like the patch, finally we will be able to use bio in TvT again !!! maybe...
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On August 25 2011 16:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. Are you JOKING!!??? I am sorry that you will have to learn how to micro your army and maybe make ghosts to remove shields from the chargelots. Seriously why dont you actually increase your skill level before claiming facing a certain army composition is unwinnable. it is very rare that pro terrans make hellions to deal with charge lots unless they go mech ob. They primarily kite and split their marines and marauders to deal with the lots, I guess you will have to do the same. I am sorry if this might overwhelm your skill level LOL.
Sorry but as a protoss player you are in no position to tell terran players to learn how to micro, all your best units are basically a-move units... zealots, archons and collossus require little to no micro at all, whereas terran bio needs to constantly kite and split.
And it doesn't change the fact that terran mech will be useless again vs. protoss, the only thing that made it viable was that bf hellions are so good against zealots, every other terran mech unit gets eaten alive.
and guess what, all the protoss has to do with zealots is a move... lrn to micro ye?
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Russian Federation473 Posts
ouch that hurts.
blizzard are always the same - release huge things when people don't expect it.
a belief was spread that balancing was over until HotS comes out - and then such a surprise.
ouch ouch ouch.
it hurts terrans just so badly.
don't you even dare thinking of going mech vs. p!
killing probes and drones with infernal preignitor only after +1 vehicles in 2 shots (and guaranteed after +2 vehicles). never 2-shotings scvs... that appears to be just as important as siege tank nerf in 1.1...
seeker missile will probably see more use in tvt and tvz... but never in tvp due to feedback.
fungal just received a huge nerf. think of banshees surviving 4 fungals with 20 hp. or of vikings surviving 3 fungals...
overseers are so cheap and little cute ultis build almostly as fast as reapers... ouch ouch ouch.
blink rush is now much harder to execute, probably won't be mainstream in pvp anymore...
especially with the tough and cruel guy with 6 range. i was always scared of him, and now 6 range... that's just terrifying!
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Holy shit! Only just now woke up to read this! Sick patch notes. As toss I can't say i'm 100% happy (blink change gonna mess up a lot of blink timings, specifically PvP) but why should I be ^^
I'm really glad for BFH though, not because I thought it was imbalanced, but because I HATE dealing with them. Less important multitasking for me ^_^.
Ultralisk thing is cool I suppose, i'm sure it'll provoke a lot more experimentation with the unit
Warp prisms and immortals? Fuck yeah! I can't count how many times i've seen my immortals crab-walking around like idiots (dragoon style) because they're too far behind my stalkers TT;; will be fixed now basically.
Rax change is to be in line with gateways i'm assuming, bit of a nerf to early rax plays (11/11 against zerg i'd imagine)
Unit vision up ramps huh... Interesting, I suppose it'll matter in toss matchups, because of FF's on ramps.
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Doesn't change hellion drops much, right? I mean 4 blueflame hellions is still going to kill all of your workers in one shot if theyre lined up.
It really only helps against 1 hellion, right?
Can anyone confirm this?
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On August 25 2011 16:07 samd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:03 Ventor wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. How often do you see pros getting mass hellions to counter charglot archon? Never. If you are not familiar with high level play, there is no need to post such nonsense. Do you understand how metagaming works? The reason no one went heavy chargelots in pro play is because the threat of BFH shutting it down was always there. Now that its not that way anymore there is literally no cost effective counter to chargelots, and i guarantee you if these changes stick we'll be seeing it a LOT more
'No one went heavy chargelot in pro play'? Are you being serious?
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On August 25 2011 16:21 Borkbokbork wrote:
Doesn't change hellion drops much, right? I mean 4 blueflame hellions is still going to kill all of your workers in one shot if theyre lined up.
It really only helps against 1 hellion, right?
Can anyone confirm this?
Sorta. In principle, yes, but the margin of error is much, much tighter.
You need 3 overlapping flames to kill something, as opposed to two.
with four hellions, that is much harder.
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Lol at thinking bio remotely counters zealots in the context of late game tvp then continuing to call that person a 'noob'. That really validates your opinion doesn't it?
The fact that one good counter to chargelots will become inefficient is a legitimate concern.
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On August 25 2011 16:23 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:21 Borkbokbork wrote:
Doesn't change hellion drops much, right? I mean 4 blueflame hellions is still going to kill all of your workers in one shot if theyre lined up.
It really only helps against 1 hellion, right?
Can anyone confirm this? Sorta. In principle, yes, but the margin of error is much, much tighter. You need 3 overlapping flames to kill something, as opposed to two. with four hellions, that is much harder.
Ah I see, thanks.
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On August 25 2011 16:19 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. Are you JOKING!!??? I am sorry that you will have to learn how to micro your army and maybe make ghosts to remove shields from the chargelots. Seriously why dont you actually increase your skill level before claiming facing a certain army composition is unwinnable. it is very rare that pro terrans make hellions to deal with charge lots unless they go mech ob. They primarily kite and split their marines and marauders to deal with the lots, I guess you will have to do the same. I am sorry if this might overwhelm your skill level LOL. Sorry but as a protoss player you are in no position to tell terran players to learn how to micro, all your best units are basically a-move units... zealots, archons and collossus require little to no micro at all, whereas terran bio needs to constantly kite and split. And it doesn't change the fact that terran mech will be useless again vs. protoss, the only thing that made it viable was that bf hellions are so good against zealots, every other terran mech unit gets eaten alive. and guess what, all the protoss has to do with zealots is a move... lrn to micro ye?
the reason why terran needs to constantly split and kite is because they are easy to micro. MM is basically the same unit in a large fight so you dont need to worry about positioning them, thats why they are able to be split and kite so easily.
toss units have very different movement speeds and has positioning required, zealots up front, archons just behind with sentries to FF, stalkers mid, colossus back. toss doesnt have the luxury to kite all day long (unless mass stalker/colossus) which is actaully an easy skill as its just repeated move and attack commands.
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On August 25 2011 16:19 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. Are you JOKING!!??? I am sorry that you will have to learn how to micro your army and maybe make ghosts to remove shields from the chargelots. Seriously why dont you actually increase your skill level before claiming facing a certain army composition is unwinnable. it is very rare that pro terrans make hellions to deal with charge lots unless they go mech ob. They primarily kite and split their marines and marauders to deal with the lots, I guess you will have to do the same. I am sorry if this might overwhelm your skill level LOL. Sorry but as a protoss player you are in no position to tell terran players to learn how to micro, all your best units are basically a-move units... zealots, archons and collossus require little to no micro at all, whereas terran bio needs to constantly kite and split. And it doesn't change the fact that terran mech will be useless again vs. protoss, the only thing that made it viable was that bf hellions are so good against zealots, every other terran mech unit gets eaten alive. and guess what, all the protoss has to do with zealots is a move... lrn to micro ye?
Well you know Protoss has to FFs, fb, storm, blink, split zealot army around so it's not clump up like stupid too. Beside stim(1 hot key), EMP( probably a few) and kite, what else Terran has to do anyway? Ppl says Protoss is micro oriented for a reason you know. No race is harder lol.
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Just thoroughly disappointed to see hellions being nerfed that much, a change to the bonus damage to make them only effective vs bio or something may have been more justified. And guuuuuuhhuhuhu I'm not looking forward to zerg lategame, being stomped by 200/200 ultralisk after a big fight even faster now T_T well, still just PTR and things may change and let's up they do.
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Loving almost every change, especially the blue flame change. Now the 4 stalkers I have defending the drop can be in position, kill one of the 3 hellions in a drop, and I don't instantly lose because stalkers suck too much :D:D:D:D.
Mothership just need immunity to neural and reduced energy loss from EMP and I'd be insanely happy.
I don't get the terran QQ about proxy 2gates, because if marineking can hold an unscouted one with 1 barracks and a partially constructed CC, I don't see why the average joe can't hold it if they scout their base with a 5 sec late barracks. It might mean protoss could potentially go 1gate FE more safely, an extra 5s on any 2rax could mean the difference between cancelling and keeping the nexus.
I am insanely sad at the blink change though. Blink rushing robo builds was already somewhat sketchy because immortal first, you lose, observer first you win. Now I guess I'm just going to have to go robo every game, I don't really think this affects other matchups because in other scenarios where you want blink, you can afford to spend a 30 seconds extra on it in ~90% of cases. Well I guess robo builds are pretty good now, especially if the ramp change does what I think it does, taking an early second gas means you don't auto die to phoenix when going robo while still being safe from 4gate.
Warp prism is going to take 8 shots to kill from vikings. Feels much better knowing that it'll take quite a few vikings before dancing around with a warp prism becomes too risky. Something else to incorporate into my play I guess.
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Wait. Banelings survive the first Fungal now!?
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On August 25 2011 16:19 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. Are you JOKING!!??? I am sorry that you will have to learn how to micro your army and maybe make ghosts to remove shields from the chargelots. Seriously why dont you actually increase your skill level before claiming facing a certain army composition is unwinnable. it is very rare that pro terrans make hellions to deal with charge lots unless they go mech ob. They primarily kite and split their marines and marauders to deal with the lots, I guess you will have to do the same. I am sorry if this might overwhelm your skill level LOL. Sorry but as a protoss player you are in no position to tell terran players to learn how to micro, all your best units are basically a-move units... zealots, archons and collossus require little to no micro at all, whereas terran bio needs to constantly kite and split. And it doesn't change the fact that terran mech will be useless again vs. protoss, the only thing that made it viable was that bf hellions are so good against zealots, every other terran mech unit gets eaten alive. and guess what, all the protoss has to do with zealots is a move... lrn to micro ye?
I feel 3/3 reapers+medivac are best counters to zealots, don't know why terrans neglect using them.
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On August 25 2011 16:23 WinteRR wrote:
Lol at thinking bio remotely counters zealots in the context of late game tvp then continuing to call that person a 'noob'. That really validates your opinion doesn't it?
The fact that one good counter to chargelots will become inefficient is a legitimate concern.
One of my firsts thoughts, Archon/Chargelot is just so incredibly hard to deal with lategame for terran. BFH used to give me some relief versus the chargelots but now I don't even know
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On August 25 2011 16:21 marttorn wrote:
I'm really glad for BFH though, not because I thought it was imbalanced, but because I HATE dealing with them. Less important multitasking for me ^_^.
I hope everyone thinks just like this on ladder when 1.4 rolls out 
*rolls 4 blue flame up anyway and destroys mineral line*
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On August 25 2011 16:19 doko100 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 16:10 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran. Are you JOKING!!??? I am sorry that you will have to learn how to micro your army and maybe make ghosts to remove shields from the chargelots. Seriously why dont you actually increase your skill level before claiming facing a certain army composition is unwinnable. it is very rare that pro terrans make hellions to deal with charge lots unless they go mech ob. They primarily kite and split their marines and marauders to deal with the lots, I guess you will have to do the same. I am sorry if this might overwhelm your skill level LOL. Sorry but as a protoss player you are in no position to tell terran players to learn how to micro, all your best units are basically a-move units... zealots, archons and collossus require little to no micro at all, whereas terran bio needs to constantly kite and split. And it doesn't change the fact that terran mech will be useless again vs. protoss, the only thing that made it viable was that bf hellions are so good against zealots, every other terran mech unit gets eaten alive. and guess what, all the protoss has to do with zealots is a move... lrn to micro ye?
When did i ever say i was a protoss player? I play terran and zerg for the most part, and when players complain that a certain matchup is unwinnable as a terran i just laugh becuase terran is the most versatile race in the game and can counter every composition in the game with proper micro.
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