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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 84

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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
August 25 2011 06:56 GMT
#1661
"Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes."

imo bad, its always usefull to have measure on your hand speed, its very usefull when you start gaming, now when some actions won't be calculated its gonna be pain.
Stork[gm]
Ventor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States336 Posts
August 25 2011 06:56 GMT
#1662
On August 25 2011 15:47 Kavas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 15:42 Ventor wrote:
On August 25 2011 15:17 Thorzain wrote:
I think that they should have added range to the seeker missile instead of the speed bonus (or both) if they wanted to see it used more. I think that the biggest problem with seeker missile is that whenever you use it, you practically sacrifice your raven as well, because it has an extremely short range.


People forget that seeker missile can be cast on their own units. Imagine casting it on a stimmed marine and or rauder as a bomb. If timed right and against proper unit comp, this could be deadly. I can guarantee this will be used. You heard it here first.

Highly doubtful. If you cast it on a single stimmed marine/marauder they'll just be focus fired and the missile won't hit anything. If you send it in the guise of a pack you're killing your own units as well. Other units don't run fast enough.


Read my post and comprehend what possible scenarios I meant. No shit a stimmed rauder would die to sieged tanks before it exploded.
oGsMc - EGHuK - White-Ra - SlayerSBoxeR - STBomber Fighting!~
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
August 25 2011 06:57 GMT
#1663
On August 25 2011 15:47 Hristiyan wrote:
The +5 sec on the barracks is done cuz of the double barracks opening in ZvT. It might look small , but it isnt.

I really doubt it was just that, it has far more implications. Longer worker scouts vs T, everything tech, orbital etc is delayed by 5 seconds. 2 rax is slower vsP and Z. Cloak banshees come 5 seconds later. It's basically an admission of T being OP and a general nerf to try and shift them back to parity with the other races.It will effect the 111, 5 seconds extra is big. P can go a slightly later robo and have a little extra time to squeeze out another warp in.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
BZZ
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada25 Posts
August 25 2011 06:57 GMT
#1664
This patch is the bomb. Helps to increase the viability of many units. As to the hellion damage decrease, it might be too much of a nerf, however, they will never know unless they try it.

The most important thing though -> increased bnet privacy settings!
MKP super!
ThaTiger
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark55 Posts
August 25 2011 06:58 GMT
#1665
On August 25 2011 15:55 imBLIND wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 15:50 JustPassingBy wrote:
you should still be able to two-shot workers, right?


14 + 5 = 19. Probes and drones have 40 hp and scvs have 45. The only change is that scvs will get 3 shotted instead of 4 shotted. However, hellions are still anti zerglings and anti-marine(at least in the late game). Gameplay will not change too much, even with teh blue flame nerf because you see hellions en masse anyways.


And they can still be good against workers midgame, if you upgrade +1 you'll be able to 2shot workers(probes or drones)
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
August 25 2011 06:58 GMT
#1666
On August 25 2011 15:55 Severedevil wrote:
I love these patch notes. Strengthen ramps, buff Immortals & Prisms & Mothership, gives a little love to Seeker Missile, reduces Ultralisk build time, nerfs the Infestor...

Blue Flame will need some tweaking, though. I'd much rather Hellions did 8(+1) damage, with 6(+1) extra versus light, and another 5(+1) from Blue Flame. Vehicles Weapons for the Hellion is pretty irrelevant against light units.


Uh...that's what the patch notes say.


8 damage + 6 vs light + 5 vs light from blue flame (down from 10)
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
August 25 2011 06:59 GMT
#1667
Pretty excited about cheaper overseers and faster build time on ultras but no hydra love?
samd
Profile Joined July 2011
United States77 Posts
August 25 2011 06:59 GMT
#1668
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran.
wat
rust.oxide
Profile Joined May 2010
United States94 Posts
August 25 2011 07:00 GMT
#1669
On August 25 2011 15:56 bgx wrote:
"Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes."

imo bad, its always usefull to have measure on your hand speed, its very usefull when you start gaming, now when some actions won't be calculated its gonna be pain.


APM is a measure of your actions, not of your hand speed. Selecting the same control group is not an action.
Xorphene
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom492 Posts
August 25 2011 07:03 GMT
#1670
On August 25 2011 10:56 Flying_Cake wrote:
Blink Nerf

This nerf isn't going to change much since you can only get blink past early game. 20 seconds won't change much at this stage since you'll still have the same number of stalkers.


Could make a huge difference in ZvP, slower 6 gate and with the cost reduction, no reason a Z can't invest in 4 overseers to corrupt your blink research for a long time while they smash your standing army.
T: Polt, Fantasy, Flash, Jjakji. P: HerO, Rain, Grubby, SoS. Z: Jaedong, Scarlett, Snute, Life. Casters: ToD, Apollo, MrBitter, Artosis, Day[9].
starbreaker10
Profile Joined June 2011
United States62 Posts
August 25 2011 07:03 GMT
#1671
ppl r gonna see more overseers, alot more. and naturally we will still see even more contaminate---nice patch overall
Ventor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States336 Posts
August 25 2011 07:03 GMT
#1672
On August 25 2011 15:59 samd wrote:
Oh man, the hellion nerf is going to make late game TvP even more of a headache. How are heavy chargelot numbers going to be countered now? Not looking forward to that. IMO its just going to make terran rely on timing pushes even more. late game TvP is near unwinnable for the terran.


How often do you see pros getting mass hellions to counter charglot archon? Never. If you are not familiar with high level play, there is no need to post such nonsense.
oGsMc - EGHuK - White-Ra - SlayerSBoxeR - STBomber Fighting!~
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
August 25 2011 07:03 GMT
#1673
On August 25 2011 10:20 malaan wrote:
can someone please explain the reasonning behind increasing barracks build time..?


11/11 bunker rushes against Zergs?
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 07:07:00
August 25 2011 07:03 GMT
#1674
On August 25 2011 15:55 Thrombozyt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 15:41 Mysticesper wrote:
One thing people need to realize it isnt damage numbers that count, its the number of hits to kill a unit that matters.

a 1hp unit still does the same dps as a 40 hp unit -- which is why focus fire is important in many cases, especially smaller battles when micro is able to keep up with it.

I made an Excel Sheet demonstrating the differences -- they are not as significant as the damage may sound. I only did select units, based upon my thoughts on "notable units" that it really affects. Fungal could easily do all units, but the pattern is plenty obvious.

[image loading]

As you can see, fungal counts don't impact units at or below 120hp, outside of zerg 120hp units due to innate regeneration. Zerglings, as they are beneath 36, but above 30, get a buff, requiring two fungals.

Hellions don't change all that much either. As previously mentioned, Blizzard probably this to create a fine line that requires a +1 upgrade that makes the hellion (almost) the same as the current, but requires more commitment / time to acquire.

The clear winners of the hellion change are SCVs and Zealots.

These small changes are more or less the difference of adding an additional unit to your force. 1 extra fungal, 1 extra hit just means an extra hellion or Infestor.


For one, zerglings already required 2 FG to kill, because they regenerated 2 hp during the time. For your table you make a false assumption:
You assume that every fungal growth does its full damage. This is not true as far as I know. If you fungal a unit twice at the same instance, it will take only the damage of one fungal. This means that if you want to lock a unit in place, you have to sacrifice part of the damage of subsequent fungals.

As a terran, I usually had my marines eradicated by 2 chain fungals. Marines have 55 hp, the two fungals deal a maximum 72 damage, so 17 overkill. As far as I know fungal deals 4.5 dmg every .5 seconds, it means that the Zerg has to hit a 1.5-2 second timing window before the first fungal hits to ensure kill in 2 fungals.
With the new fungal, double fungal deals up to 60 damage, leading to an overkill of 5 which in turn gives only 0.5-1 second acceptable overlap, so the fungals have to be cast much more accurate. This means we will see more suboptimal fungals and the number of fungals needed to kill higher hp units (read toss units) with chain fungal rises even higher!


Well, it is theory crafting numbers, which means perfect situations. I included the number of 1 sec of ticks as well (I honestly didn't know if it was calculated every .5 or 1 sec) so if you fungal early, you can take that into account, dividing the differences by four.

But the change isn't as significant as may be stated. It really just means 1 extra infestor for most units. Early on -- yes. Later -- not so much.
Didn't think about the zergling regeneration rate, so that is my error.
aderum
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden1459 Posts
August 25 2011 07:04 GMT
#1675
Lets just remember that this is for the PTR. Something will probably change before release.
Crazy people dont sit around and wonder if they are insane
Steamboatlol
Profile Joined April 2010
United States161 Posts
August 25 2011 07:05 GMT
#1676
On August 25 2011 10:17 CaptainHaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
General
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.


PROTOSS
Immortal
Attack range increased from 5 to 6.

Mothership
Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.

Stalker
Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.

Warp Prism
Shields increased from 40 to 100.
I really don't understand the blink change, it is a great ability, but the timing never seemed to be an enormous issue.


with the old blink timing they get their first collossus out right before it finishes when transitioning out of 4 gate. Now they may have 2 collossi so they will probably be able to hold my follow up.
Jawmare
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada85 Posts
August 25 2011 07:05 GMT
#1677
so PvP will be even more boring after 1.4, when you are forced to do a 3/4 gate into robo tech.
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 07:08:48
August 25 2011 07:06 GMT
#1678
I don't know how you can say it's a small nerf for the infestor. It's a huge DPS nerf, looking at the number of fungals you need to kill something is silly because they're not used that way; they're used in conjonction to other stuff. It would've been easier to swallow if they made a change to corruption (my idea is that it should reduce the DPS of one unit instead of increasing damage receieved).

But I guess Blizzard wants infestors to stay a mid tier unit, and give something to deal with the deathball (different corruptor + siege unit) in HotS.
galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
August 25 2011 07:07 GMT
#1679
this patch would be soooo sick!!! if half this stuff goes thru it will be great!!!!
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
SoulWager
Profile Joined August 2010
United States464 Posts
August 25 2011 07:07 GMT
#1680
Warp prism change is a step in the right direction but the main reason warp prisms aren't used much isn't that they're so squishy, it's that the things we can put in them are generally more expensive, likely to do less damage, and more likely to be killed as the equivalent T or Z drop.

if someone wants to compare damage/escapability of marauder vs immortal drops, or the risk involved in bfh/bane/storm drops be my guest.
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