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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
Seems like Blizzard are looking at what is being used heaps.. and nerfing it.. and buff the things that no one is using...
Not sure about the blink timing.. thats a bit harsh (Biased protoss)...
Barracks build increase is good.. but doesn't do much to stop the 1/1/1 or 'procedure' build (as it is known in SEA).. more nerf to 1/1/1...
Ramp vision is pretty big too.. kinda gives toss easier force fields on ramps at defence... doesn't matter if they are a touch too high.. vision is lower..
I dunno about the changes tho.. all in all i wouldn't have expected them personally... but alright i guess
Someone said on page 1 about Fungle being a slow ability and not a freeze.. i think that is a great idea.
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On August 25 2011 15:37 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:33 darklordjac wrote:
sooooo no more blink stalkers in pvp? Better than Endless 4Gate.
Well with a blink stalker nerf wouldn't it just mean that there is going to be more 4gates?
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good patch. at least blizzard recognize how protoss are struggling in the mid game. The immortal buff is really sexy. Sentry drop is going to be so huge now with the buff
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Good patch overall, some are unecessary but none of these really address the current 1/1/1 issues
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On August 25 2011 15:39 darklordjac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:37 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2011 15:33 darklordjac wrote:
sooooo no more blink stalkers in pvp? Better than Endless 4Gate. Well with a blink stalker nerf wouldn't it just mean that there is going to be more 4gates?
I think he's referring to the sight changes on ramps
On August 25 2011 15:40 brachester wrote:
Good patch overall, some are unecessary but none of these really address the current 1/1/1 issues
I think that's ok. give protoss some time to deal with it
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One thing people need to realize it isnt damage numbers that count, its the number of hits to kill a unit that matters.
a 1hp unit still does the same dps as a 40 hp unit -- which is why focus fire is important in many cases, especially smaller battles when micro is able to keep up with it.
I made an Excel Sheet demonstrating the differences -- they are not as significant as the damage may sound. I only did select units, based upon my thoughts on "notable units" that it really affects. Fungal could easily do all units, but the pattern is plenty obvious.
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Darkness_Esper/fungalhellion2.png)
As you can see, fungal counts don't impact units at or below 120hp, outside of zerg 120hp units due to innate regeneration. Zerglings, as they are beneath 36, but above 30, get a buff, requiring two fungals.
Hellions don't change all that much either. As previously mentioned, Blizzard probably this to create a fine line that requires a +1 upgrade that makes the hellion (almost) the same as the current, but requires more commitment / time to acquire.
The clear winners of the hellion change are SCVs and Zealots.
These small changes are more or less the difference of adding an additional unit to your force. 1 extra fungal, 1 extra hit just means an extra hellion or Infestor.
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On August 25 2011 15:39 darklordjac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:37 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2011 15:33 darklordjac wrote:
sooooo no more blink stalkers in pvp? Better than Endless 4Gate. Well with a blink stalker nerf wouldn't it just mean that there is going to be more 4gates?
No... wouldn't robo-tier units buff help encourage more robo builds or stargate builds?
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On August 25 2011 15:35 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +
Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack.
This's interesting. I didn't know guardian shield doesn't work against Siege tank. But now I guess it could help immortal/zealots/stalkers tremendously to bust 1/1/1 build.
This is actually huge.
Normally, I wouldn't care about GS versus tanks because 35-2 is still a ton of damage. But, for immortals, the reduction is applied after hardened shields, so each tank shot does 8 when GS is applied instead of 10.
That's an extra three tank shells per immoral.
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On August 25 2011 15:39 Za7oX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 13:59 HuTSC2 wrote:
I really don't fucking understand the barracks nerf. +5 seconds messes alot with the already concrete standard opening of 12 rax 15 orbital.. probably because of the amount of free wins terran's get for marine/bunker pressure.....
They're not free wins unless you give them to the terran. A terran needs to pressure zerg in order to keep up with the macro. Be that through marines, hellions etc. something needs to happen.
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On August 25 2011 15:36 Gatored wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:30 Hellbourne wrote:
What? WHAT? This patch can't be a serious attempt at balancing the game. Why would anyone increase the barracks build time? Why buff protoss like that? It's not like they were UP... and nerfing fungal, well, saw it coming after all the protoss qqing about it. No, they were not UP in the slightest. Wait, you didn't see the win rates of all the races that was recently posted? I take it no.
Because protoss are playing poorly and not innovating like the other races they deserve to be buffed even though players such as Huk, MC, Mana, and genius are still having great success in the GSL and other tournaments. ok guy.
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On August 25 2011 15:17 Thorzain wrote:
I think that they should have added range to the seeker missile instead of the speed bonus (or both) if they wanted to see it used more. I think that the biggest problem with seeker missile is that whenever you use it, you practically sacrifice your raven as well, because it has an extremely short range.
People forget that seeker missile can be cast on their own units. Imagine casting it on a stimmed marine and or rauder as a bomb. If timed right and against proper unit comp, this could be deadly. I can guarantee this will be used. You heard it here first.
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On August 25 2011 15:41 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:39 darklordjac wrote:On August 25 2011 15:37 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2011 15:33 darklordjac wrote:
sooooo no more blink stalkers in pvp? Better than Endless 4Gate. Well with a blink stalker nerf wouldn't it just mean that there is going to be more 4gates? No... wouldn't robo-tier units buff help encourage more robo builds or stargate builds?
Well in my opinion +1 range on an immortal isn't going to change pvp enough that a robo build becomes the standard instead of 4gate
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On August 25 2011 15:39 darklordjac wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:37 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2011 15:33 darklordjac wrote:
sooooo no more blink stalkers in pvp? Better than Endless 4Gate. Well with a blink stalker nerf wouldn't it just mean that there is going to be more 4gates?
No because 4 gates are pretty easy to shut down now.
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On August 25 2011 15:17 Thorzain wrote:
I think that they should have added range to the seeker missile instead of the speed bonus (or both) if they wanted to see it used more. I think that the biggest problem with seeker missile is that whenever you use it, you practically sacrifice your raven as well, because it has an extremely short range.
You sir have an overpowered icon...
Who knows maybe this is the first step in making them more useful. Should be pretty awesome for when you do get one off. Also nice for mineral harrass...
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On August 25 2011 15:40 brachester wrote:
Good patch overall, some are unecessary but none of these really address the current 1/1/1 issues
The rush is slightly slower, guardian shield reduces the siege tank damage now, and immortals have longer range to help fight it off.
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On August 25 2011 11:54 XRaDiiX wrote:
I told ya Destiny was a one Trick Pony... Infestor Nerf Have Fun in High Masters Destiny
Destiny won't be GM anymore He's a One Trick Pony.
As Zerg i'm glad to see the Infestor Nerf i don't use Infestor TOO often only as a support unit in Late game compositions....
And I'm Glad the Infestor Was nerfed i felt it was too OP.
I am Really liking the Overseer Gas Reduction and the Ultralisk Build time Decrease.
LOL
Haters gon hate i spose lol.
Too bad the haters are dumb and don't realize it wont change infestors that much
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Hello ultras ultra rushes!
(actually, it mostly improves army rebuilding time, when otherwise if your first wave of ultra dies, next one comes too late to save the day sometimes)
On August 25 2011 15:41 Mysticesper wrote:
Zerglings, as they are beneath 36, but above 30, get a buff, requiring two fungals. "Zerglings will survive a Fungal Growth because of health regeneration even though they have 35 health vs the 36 damage the spell causes. " - Liquipedia (before this patch)
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Terrans wondering about the barracks nerf: maybe you haven't been on the receiving end of a proxy 2-rax or a 3-rax marine/scv all-in, but marines are just ridiculous early game. Making fast marine pressure a tiny bit slower will be nice for discouraging really cheesy TvZ builds. Terran will still be the most cheese-resistant race of the three by quite a bit, so I wouldn't worry too much.
Edit: Also, I didn't really understand the contaminate nerf, but without it, 50/50 overseers could absolutely wreck ZvZ. Contaminate pushes would be just way too strong, and that would make ZvZ retarded really easily.
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On August 25 2011 15:42 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 15:17 Thorzain wrote:
I think that they should have added range to the seeker missile instead of the speed bonus (or both) if they wanted to see it used more. I think that the biggest problem with seeker missile is that whenever you use it, you practically sacrifice your raven as well, because it has an extremely short range. People forget that seeker missile can be cast on their own units. Imagine casting it on a stimmed marine and or rauder as a bomb. If timed right and against proper unit comp, this could be deadly. I can guarantee this will be used. You heard it here first.
Highly doubtful. If you cast it on a single stimmed marine/marauder they'll just be focus fired and the missile won't hit anything. If you send it in the guise of a pack you're killing your own units as well. Other units don't run fast enough.
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The +5 sec on the barracks is done cuz of the double barracks opening in ZvT. It might look small , but it isnt.
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EPT
