EPT
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 83
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Neverplay
Austria532 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:09 JiPrime wrote: Warp Prism is built from robo, which means while you're building warp prisms, you can't make colossi, or immortals, which are important units that make up the protoss deathball. so make a second robo? It's not that expensive. I'm sure there will be 2 robo harassment builds popping up quite quickly. That second robo will be usefull once you're on 4 bases or something anyway. There's no reason for a protoss player not to fully exploit this pretty ridiculous over-buff. | ||
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Carnagath
230 Posts
Warp Prism change - Awesome. Barracks - It makes very early pressure on P harder, which is ok, gives Z a bit more time to defend against 2rax bunker pressure, but slows T's whole tech down and makes them more vulnerable to stupid cheese. Not sure about it. Blue Frame - Good change. Hellions should still do awesomely while complementing a mech army and are still a huge threat if dropped in 3's or 4's, just less facerolling now. Seeker Missile - Good change, but I still think SM's need more buffs. Fungal Growth change - Great change. Overseer costs - Needed. Contaminate - Also probably needed, at 50 gas people will be tempted to make 4-5 overseers and contaminate, increasing the enrgy cost balances that preemptively. Ultralisk - A little extreme as a build time buff, would rather have seen a more modest buff but also a reduce in hitbox size. | ||
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Petninja
United States159 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:42 Ventor wrote: People forget that seeker missile can be cast on their own units. Imagine casting it on a stimmed marine and or rauder as a bomb. If timed right and against proper unit comp, this could be deadly. I can guarantee this will be used. You heard it here first. Wasn't there a thread like a couple weeks back about this very tactic? I'm pretty positive some guy made that thread a little while back. I, for one, heard it elsewhere first. Also, it's less effective now. HSM catches up to units faster, so it has a smaller margin of error, and can be used on fewer units. | ||
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MuGeN_Eu
France11 Posts
this is for me the biggest change | ||
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MaHi
Czech Republic21 Posts
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digmouse
China6330 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
sure, in the early game it's not as good as before, but in the lategame, when you have good upgrades, you should still be able to two-shot workers, right? So all that takes is a little bit of randomness in the early game, while to win in the lategame you can still use your multitasking to challenge your opponent. | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:12 Jacobs Ladder wrote: Terran can build a bunker/engi the same as P build a pylon. It used to be pretty common. Blocking!= pressure. Or an engineering bay? | ||
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Benga
Korea (South)471 Posts
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:50 digmouse wrote: Cant understand the Blink nerf, but the up ramp vision change seems solely for PvP high ground warp-in? And any Warp Prism buff is welcomed I'm pretty sure it just helps every matchup in terms of defenders advantage. Though PvP is probably the most affected. | ||
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Kavas
Australia3421 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:46 Lobotomist wrote: Terrans wondering about the barracks nerf: maybe you haven't been on the receiving end of a proxy 2-rax or a 3-rax marine/scv all-in, but marines are just ridiculous early game. Making fast marine pressure a tiny bit slower will be nice for discouraging really cheesy TvZ builds. Terran will still be the most cheese-resistant race of the three by quite a bit, so I wouldn't worry too much. The problem is not only does it reduce Terran aggression, it reduces Terran's everything. Tech, economy and army are all slower due to the barracks nerf. The only thing that might not change is a CC first build and that's absurd. Proxy 2-rax is a gimmick strategy especially with the number of large 4-player maps Blizzard is implementing. Unless you're unlucky you should never outright die to it. | ||
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Trealador
United States207 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:46 Lobotomist wrote: Terrans wondering about the barracks nerf: maybe you haven't been on the receiving end of a proxy 2-rax or a 3-rax marine/scv all-in, but marines are just ridiculous early game. Making fast marine pressure a tiny bit slower will be nice for discouraging really cheesy TvZ builds. Terran will still be the most cheese-resistant race of the three by quite a bit, so I wouldn't worry too much. Edit: Also, I didn't really understand the contaminate nerf, but without it, 50/50 overseers could absolutely wreck ZvZ. Contaminate pushes would be just way too strong, and that would make ZvZ retarded really easily. Proxy 2 gate is pretty hard to deal with too. If you dont see it. If you scout their base and dont see any barracks and don't smell something fishy you deserve to lose. get an earlier sentry or start walling vs terran if you are really that worried about marine SCV all in. If terran doesnt invest in a bunker he dies vs protoss. And the barracks change makes no sense because of how tight the timing is for orbitals, it literally creates a 5 second gap of nothing for no apparent reason. 2 raxx TvZ is all about denying the bunker going up, and if you pull a decent amount of drones with some lings it is actually not that hard to deny. And close positions are still going to be lol. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
On August 25 2011 14:52 Tzunami wrote: Hellion damage reduced by 50%? Um...this is like the reaper update, they have redundified another Terran unit. Maybe if it was reduced by 20% or 30% the unit would still be useable. This update will probably cause most Terrans to transition. Ohsweet barracks time increased too, so now Terran can't rush at all...or defend rushes? I don't understand this update at all. This isn't rage, it is confusion as to why they would release an update which destroys the game balancing completely. All the zergs and protoss will be saying "great update! Terran is OP!" but honestly, think about it in an unbiased way and this update is a terrible change to a great game. On August 25 2011 14:50 DH_Remorse wrote: Did you guys even read the patch notes?Wow, I love the increesed dmg. to armored by festors :D. Protoss you bout to get some hurt! ^__^ | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:50 JustPassingBy wrote: you should still be able to two-shot workers, right? 14 + 5 = 19. Probes and drones have 40 hp and scvs have 45. The only change is that scvs will get 3 shotted instead of 4 shotted. However, hellions are still anti zerglings and anti-marine(at least in the late game). Gameplay will not change too much, even with teh blue flame nerf because you see hellions en masse anyways. | ||
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ThaTiger
Denmark55 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:22 ZAiNs wrote: It's a subtle Bunker nerf, the fastest possible Bunker is now 5 seconds later. HAHA wft.. They disguised the burke nerf! Guess it is a real patch after all! | ||
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Xayvier
United States387 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
Blue Flame will need some tweaking, though. I'd much rather Hellions did 8(+1) damage, with 6(+1) extra versus light, and another 5(+1) from Blue Flame. Vehicles Weapons for the Hellion is pretty irrelevant against light units. EDIT: I didn't realize Barracks were ever 60 seconds; the other two races take 65 seconds for their structures. Makes sense the barracks would as well. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On August 25 2011 15:41 Mysticesper wrote: One thing people need to realize it isnt damage numbers that count, its the number of hits to kill a unit that matters. a 1hp unit still does the same dps as a 40 hp unit -- which is why focus fire is important in many cases, especially smaller battles when micro is able to keep up with it. I made an Excel Sheet demonstrating the differences -- they are not as significant as the damage may sound. I only did select units, based upon my thoughts on "notable units" that it really affects. Fungal could easily do all units, but the pattern is plenty obvious. ![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/Darkness_Esper/fungalhellion2.png) As you can see, fungal counts don't impact units at or below 120hp, outside of zerg 120hp units due to innate regeneration. Zerglings, as they are beneath 36, but above 30, get a buff, requiring two fungals. Hellions don't change all that much either. As previously mentioned, Blizzard probably this to create a fine line that requires a +1 upgrade that makes the hellion (almost) the same as the current, but requires more commitment / time to acquire. The clear winners of the hellion change are SCVs and Zealots. These small changes are more or less the difference of adding an additional unit to your force. 1 extra fungal, 1 extra hit just means an extra hellion or Infestor. For one, zerglings already required 2 FG to kill, because they regenerated 2 hp during the time. For your table you make a false assumption: You assume that every fungal growth does its full damage. This is not true as far as I know. If you fungal a unit twice at the same instance, it will take only the damage of one fungal. This means that if you want to lock a unit in place, you have to sacrifice part of the damage of subsequent fungals. As a terran, I usually had my marines eradicated by 2 chain fungals. Marines have 55 hp, the two fungals deal a maximum 72 damage, so 17 overkill. As far as I know fungal deals 4.5 dmg every .5 seconds, it means that the Zerg has to hit a 1.5-2 second timing window before the first fungal hits to ensure kill in 2 fungals. With the new fungal, double fungal deals up to 60 damage, leading to an overkill of 5 which in turn gives only 0.5-1 second acceptable overlap, so the fungals have to be cast much more accurate. This means we will see more suboptimal fungals and the number of fungals needed to kill higher hp units (read toss units) with chain fungal rises even higher! | ||
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Trealador
United States207 Posts
The timing for the pylon is usually right when they want to expand, start building next to a drone he will deny by hitting your SCV, and it wastes time your SCV could be mining or scouting. Protoss throw down the pylon and run away making it much more effective. 2 raxx is probably too strong but I feel like increasing the build time on raxx is not the right fix when close spawns and zerg playing too greedy still exist in the meta game. | ||
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