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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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atavus
France60 Posts
In addition that massive don't get rooted by fungal just like Ultralisk. This will make the archon/HT branch the perfect counter to Infestor without affecting ZvT & still allow a toss that went robo to be at least able to micro under fungal to snipe infestor as this is the only protoss unit with enough range to doing so, but colossi can still be NPable, turning the exchange in a microfest. | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On September 11 2011 12:18 Truedot wrote: Turn neural parasite into Neural Suicide. It can only be used on massive units, and sucks all the life out of the infestor to instantly blow up a massive unit. there, problem solved. Noone had a problem in brood war when people could Mass queens for 75 energy a pop to spawn broodlings instantly destroying tanks and adding zerg units to your forces instantly. Queens had an ability that destroyed a strong enemy unit and also added units of your own to the field! This is like a perma-neural, which btw Neural Parasite was permanent back in beta. Now that you can no longer take over massives, WHy not make Neural Permament again (yes, it was perma but still channeled meaning you had to cancel it to move your festor, they just reduceed its perma status to ridiculously low timer status so you other races wouldn't fear having their massive units perma taken) Um, are you joking? So you want to solve the problem of Blizzard believing neural parasite is too strong, by making it instantly able to kill any massive unit? What kind of suggestion is that lol? Almost all, if not every massive unit in this game costs more than an infestor, and zerg can easily get a bigger income to be able to make more infestors than the other races can make massive units...just wow at some suggested balance changes from people. There's a difference between trying to balance the game and trying to make your race ridiculously overpowered. Brood War was a completely different game, and Spawn Broodling is 150 energy. Barely anyone even used queens until recently as well and it only has a super specific niche role. That's a completely different unit in a completely different game. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On September 11 2011 17:59 freetgy wrote: is that really true? Baneling drops are insanely cost effective, because they do instant damage unlike storm and cheaper and upgradable. freetgy, I am not picking on you. I am glad to hear someone say bling drops are "insanely cost effective," because so many Z have been arguing, in this thread, that they are not cost effective or efficient in taking out death balls. How ironic it would be to see those same Z react to this information with frustration. tl;dr As a toss, even when I micro hard against bane drops, they still do damage, and I always fear them. I'm still trying to understand why a change like this was left out of the patch notes.. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
I just tested it on ptr, everything worked just right. The change that affects drops is "Transports can no longer unload units into a dense area if the original order was issued on a fogged location." Probably he just right clicked drop on a fog area and when it didn't work he's like "Wtf just happened". I will try to upload a video when i can. Thanks for the clarification. So it IS in the patch notes. I mentioned that I thought this would be a small buff for Toss as T and Z are usually the races that cue up drops to blind locations in the fog of war. | ||
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canilsen
Norway286 Posts
On September 11 2011 18:41 atavus wrote: Seems to me that it will be better if NP don't affect Psyonic unit : meaning almost almost all the major casters, archon & mothership. In addition that massive don't get rooted by fungal just like Ultralisk. This will make the archon/HT branch the perfect counter to Infestor without affecting ZvT & still allow a toss that went robo to be at least able to micro under fungal to snipe infestor as this is the only protoss unit with enough range to doing so, but colossi can still be NPable, turning the exchange in a microfest. This is a great idea! | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On September 11 2011 18:59 branflakes14 wrote: For anyone who thinks Neural Parasite is now worthless, consider that NPing a Stalker is a 125/50 loss for your opponent and a 125/50 gain for you. That's pretty damn good, even after subtracting the cost of the Infestor. Neuralling a Colossus was a 600/400 and 12 supply gain in total, which really is just retarded when you think about it. You must've missed the part where it said neural parasite lasted only 15 seconds. And that researching neural parasite costs 150 - 150. And that it costs 100 energy which would be better spent fungaling and throwing out infested terrans. Yes I believe you missed that part. | ||
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foxorz
33 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 11 2011 18:59 branflakes14 wrote: For anyone who thinks Neural Parasite is now worthless, consider that NPing a Stalker is a 125/50 loss for your opponent and a 125/50 gain for you. That's pretty damn good, even after subtracting the cost of the Infestor. Neuralling a Colossus was a 600/400 and 12 supply gain in total, which really is just retarded when you think about it. Just want to put it out there: if you Vortex 20 roaches you have a 1500/500 and 40supply gain which is even more retarted. I guess that's why we see Vortex that often. (did someone say those units come back? Did someone say that there are huge costs in getting out a mothership and that you can do all sorts of stuff to prevent the vortex from beating you?) Seriously: On September 11 2011 19:04 solidbebe wrote: You must've missed the part where it said neural parasite lasted only 15 seconds. And that researching neural parasite costs 150 - 150. And that it costs 100 energy which would be better spent fungaling and throwing out infested terrans. Yes I believe you missed that part. sign | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
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foxorz
33 Posts
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Elldar
Sweden287 Posts
This change will force zergs to go back to roach armies again and stay away from ling/infestor play against protoss, unless you have some timing attack that depends on infested terrans, but late game infestor is now completly useless. It is not a balance change, they make certain strategies litteraly impossible to play out without making them gimmicky or all-inish. Its game breaking. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On September 11 2011 19:17 Big J wrote: Just want to put it out there: if you Vortex 20 roaches you have a 1500/500 and 40supply gain which is even more retarted. I guess that's why we see Vortex that often. (did someone say those units come back? Did someone say that there are huge costs in getting out a mothership and that you can do all sorts of stuff to prevent the vortex from beating you?) well considering that Vortex has only a range of 6 and NP a range of 9 it is hardly an argument, and beeing able to excape into the vortex and coming out with invulnerability, makes it hardly useful offensiv, it is more a defensiv mechanism. | ||
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Seraphic
United States3849 Posts
So please stop saying 15 seconds isn't much. I agree with this change. It makes it situational. You can still control HTs, Void Rays, and Immortals. (Siege Tanks) Not to mention Fungal still stops units in there tracks, that's the important part. This isn't the end of the world. While it is harder to stop a Colossus or Thor, Zergs will still have there ways to stop them. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
On September 11 2011 21:11 CatNzHat wrote: At the low level, there are a lot of terrans, in masters, terran is the least played race. Source? Edit: in GM I see 85 terran, 66 zerg, 58 protoss, and 5 random. Masters is too large to tell, but I don't see why it would be different. Top 5 are all terran btw, and 7 out of the top 10 are terran. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
On September 11 2011 21:11 CatNzHat wrote: At the low level, there are a lot of terrans, in masters, terran is the least played race. I don't know what the source of your information is but I fear you may be wrong. http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all | ||
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
I hope NP get replaced with another spell in hearth of the swarm because I hate this spell. | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On September 11 2011 17:34 Big J wrote: whaaaaat??? Are you telling me that they are removing the 2 most populars ways to deal with a Protoss Deathball, while buffing Immortals and Warp Prisms? Can someone please confirm that, before I switch to terran? It still works. It doesn't work if you unload all you ovies without vision... but who does that? | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
Massive units, are all remarkably stupid a-move units. They make the death balls. Dam, death balls are the worst thing in this game, they require no skill, they are extremely frustrating to deal with, they are just not fun at all. Give protoss harass options, and wait for them to develop new strategies. Nerfing NP this way, is just making a move back into the wrong direction and anyone happy with this is just an example of the "dump protoss", zergs have been talking about. Maybe the matchup has been tough for protoss in the last months, but honestly with the warp prism& immortal buffs, the fungal damage nerf, it was more than enough to give it a new try. The NP nerf is just an overkill. I personnaly don't like the spell itself, I would not mind if it were nerfed with a lesser range, or a half duration against massive units. But this spell is currently needed to limit the occurence of death balls. And the worst is probably the thors/helions one. Not to mention we may see new deathballs appears, like battlecruiser with raven/ghost/scv/viking supports, what can stop them if terran manages to get them ? | ||
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