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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
can't remove massive from archon or it'll make them worse vs marauders
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On September 11 2011 11:54 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:38 hitpoint wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
Terran mech, or colossi deathball -- both of those don't need NP for the Zerg to counter and win rather effectively using other methods.
But Zealot/Archon is just too OP against Zerg without NP. NP punishes it hard, but it's also the only thing that really does work effectively.
The reason is air. You can go mutas or corruptors against colossi and counter effectively. Enough archons, on the other hand, will wreck a mass of air units - the archon is a much more fickle unit to counter. The only unit to effectively counter the Archon is the Broodlord at this point, and that's way too much tech required to counter a Gateway unit. You won't survive gateway pressure if you're trying to tech straight to broodlords. And banelings are horribly inefficient against the bulky archons, whether they're dropped or not.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. You can just make roaches or hydras to beat zealot archon, it's not a big deal. Corrupters are bad units and infestors were a nice alternative. Also, what "other methods" are we supposed to use against terran mech? Seems like the opposite of all your points is true. Corruptors deal with Colossi, which is the only reason I mentioned them at all, so I don't know why you bring them up and then talk about Terran. A good Zealot/Archon build would never lose to low tech Zerg units. Roach/Hydra gets owned by Zealot/Archon, unless you kill the protoss before he gets enough Archons in which case, that's just bad play. As for Terran mech, which you seem to suggest is what needs NP the most, I'd just say that there are tons of "other methods" which we've all seen plenty of. Mutas can do wonders at buying a Zerg enough time to get the Broodlords out. The problem is Gateway units offer more maneuverability and more anti-air, and also the ability to push earlier on in the game - making it harder to expand or tech against (whereas Terran tech gives you a lot of free-time to expand and tech as long as you defend against hellions). Add Archons to the mix, and it becomes a nightmare to defend. If you haven't gone against a good Zealot/Archon build, it's hard to know just how effective it is. The fact that you think Roaches and Hydras beat a Gateway/Archon mix, "no big deal", tells me you're speaking from theory more than experience.
I brought up corrupters because you said they counter colossi effectively, which is true but then you lose the ground battle. It's the same argument that's probably been debated 100 times in this thread. Corrupters were our best answer to colossi for months, and the fact that they are such a terrible unit to have to rely on is why infestors were buffed in the first place.
Mutas are not efficient against mech and are easily countered by just a few ghosts or marines if the terran knows your making them.
And mass roach/hydra or even roach/infestor (without NP, just using fungal) destroys zealot archon. This isn't theory crafting, I play zerg. Have you ever played as zerg? Because I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that if you see zealot archon you just pump roaches and hydra if they're available.
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On September 11 2011 11:54 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:38 hitpoint wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
Terran mech, or colossi deathball -- both of those don't need NP for the Zerg to counter and win rather effectively using other methods.
But Zealot/Archon is just too OP against Zerg without NP. NP punishes it hard, but it's also the only thing that really does work effectively.
The reason is air. You can go mutas or corruptors against colossi and counter effectively. Enough archons, on the other hand, will wreck a mass of air units - the archon is a much more fickle unit to counter. The only unit to effectively counter the Archon is the Broodlord at this point, and that's way too much tech required to counter a Gateway unit. You won't survive gateway pressure if you're trying to tech straight to broodlords. And banelings are horribly inefficient against the bulky archons, whether they're dropped or not.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. You can just make roaches or hydras to beat zealot archon, it's not a big deal. Corrupters are bad units and infestors were a nice alternative. Also, what "other methods" are we supposed to use against terran mech? Seems like the opposite of all your points is true. Corruptors deal with Colossi, which is the only reason I mentioned them at all, so I don't know why you bring them up and then talk about Terran. A good Zealot/Archon build would never lose to low tech Zerg units. Roach/Hydra gets owned by Zealot/Archon, unless you kill the protoss before he gets enough Archons in which case, that's just bad play. As for Terran mech, which you seem to suggest is what needs NP the most, I'd just say that there are tons of "other methods" which we've all seen plenty of. Mutas can do wonders at buying a Zerg enough time to get the Broodlords out. The problem is Gateway units offer morebig deal", tells me you're speaking from theory more than experience.
Okay, can you point us to a VoD or replay of a high-level game, where this "good" Zealot/Archon build cuts through a Roach based build?
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On September 11 2011 12:00 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:59 Leporello wrote:On September 11 2011 11:40 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. That's SO biased that i'm asking myself what to answer. Removing "massive" from Archons is a very small change compared to what is happening to the Infestor. I actually think it's very reasonable suggestion. I don't know what else you think is "biased", expect to say that I have an opinion on something. There are a lot of deadly protoss builds, the Zealot/Archon is one that I feel requires NP the most. Yeah, lets kill pvp again.
Yeah, because adding massive to Archons "fixed" PvP.
What's going to help fix PvP is the Immortal buff. But this is digressing. I'm done responding to one-liners, peace.
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On September 11 2011 12:00 hitpoint wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:54 Leporello wrote:On September 11 2011 11:38 hitpoint wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
Terran mech, or colossi deathball -- both of those don't need NP for the Zerg to counter and win rather effectively using other methods.
But Zealot/Archon is just too OP against Zerg without NP. NP punishes it hard, but it's also the only thing that really does work effectively.
The reason is air. You can go mutas or corruptors against colossi and counter effectively. Enough archons, on the other hand, will wreck a mass of air units - the archon is a much more fickle unit to counter. The only unit to effectively counter the Archon is the Broodlord at this point, and that's way too much tech required to counter a Gateway unit. You won't survive gateway pressure if you're trying to tech straight to broodlords. And banelings are horribly inefficient against the bulky archons, whether they're dropped or not.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. You can just make roaches or hydras to beat zealot archon, it's not a big deal. Corrupters are bad units and infestors were a nice alternative. Also, what "other methods" are we supposed to use against terran mech? Seems like the opposite of all your points is true. Corruptors deal with Colossi, which is the only reason I mentioned them at all, so I don't know why you bring them up and then talk about Terran. A good Zealot/Archon build would never lose to low tech Zerg units. Roach/Hydra gets owned by Zealot/Archon, unless you kill the protoss before he gets enough Archons in which case, that's just bad play. As for Terran mech, which you seem to suggest is what needs NP the most, I'd just say that there are tons of "other methods" which we've all seen plenty of. Mutas can do wonders at buying a Zerg enough time to get the Broodlords out. The problem is Gateway units offer more maneuverability and more anti-air, and also the ability to push earlier on in the game - making it harder to expand or tech against (whereas Terran tech gives you a lot of free-time to expand and tech as long as you defend against hellions). Add Archons to the mix, and it becomes a nightmare to defend. If you haven't gone against a good Zealot/Archon build, it's hard to know just how effective it is. The fact that you think Roaches and Hydras beat a Gateway/Archon mix, "no big deal", tells me you're speaking from theory more than experience. I brought up corrupters because you said they counter colossi effectively, which is true but then you lose the ground battle. It's the same argument that's probably been debated 100 times in this thread. Corrupters were our best answer to colossi for months, and the fact that they are such a terrible unit to have to rely on is why infestors were buffed in the first place. Mutas are not efficient against mech and are easily countered by just a few ghosts or marines if the terran knows your making them. And mass roach/hydra or even roach/infestor (without NP, just using fungal) destroys zealot archon. This isn't theory crafting, I play zerg. Have you ever played as zerg? Because I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that if you see zealot archon you just pump roaches and hydra if they're available.
Have you? Gotta love that hyperbole, when you can't make a point.
Zerg has beaten Terran mech with muta, how many examples do you need?
And since when are Ghosts part of Terran mech until the late-late-game?
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On September 11 2011 11:59 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:40 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. That's SO biased that i'm asking myself what to answer. Removing "massive" from Archons is a very small change compared to what is happening to the Infestor. I actually think it's very reasonable suggestion. I don't know what else you think is "biased", expect to say that I have an opinion on something. There are a lot of deadly protoss builds, the Zealot/Archon is one that I feel requires NP the most.
The Massive trait was added for a reason - namely so Archons would not be affected by concussive and so they would be able to crush forcefields (and would not be able to be lifted by phoenixes) - making them a viable unit in PvP.
The match-up will not be broken by zealot-archon builds because such builds are gimmicky and are still countered entirely by roaches.
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Again, taking a step back, what is NP's basic function from a high level standpoint? It's to take over or remove a single powerful enemy unit. Nobody's going to take over a marine, marauder, zealot, stalker, etc. From a game design standpoint, they are IMO basically nerfing infestors by indirectly removing one of their spells which to me doesn't make sense.
Putting aside the details of how it affects meta game right now ... the question is will NP ever be used again with the nerf? It's hard to say since thing evolve but I think most people would probably lean towards "probably not" at this point. People would be much happier if they just nerfed the fungal rooting or maybe the range of NP, and avoid essentially removing content from the game.
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On September 11 2011 12:04 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 12:00 hitpoint wrote:On September 11 2011 11:54 Leporello wrote:On September 11 2011 11:38 hitpoint wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
Terran mech, or colossi deathball -- both of those don't need NP for the Zerg to counter and win rather effectively using other methods.
But Zealot/Archon is just too OP against Zerg without NP. NP punishes it hard, but it's also the only thing that really does work effectively.
The reason is air. You can go mutas or corruptors against colossi and counter effectively. Enough archons, on the other hand, will wreck a mass of air units - the archon is a much more fickle unit to counter. The only unit to effectively counter the Archon is the Broodlord at this point, and that's way too much tech required to counter a Gateway unit. You won't survive gateway pressure if you're trying to tech straight to broodlords. And banelings are horribly inefficient against the bulky archons, whether they're dropped or not.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. You can just make roaches or hydras to beat zealot archon, it's not a big deal. Corrupters are bad units and infestors were a nice alternative. Also, what "other methods" are we supposed to use against terran mech? Seems like the opposite of all your points is true. Corruptors deal with Colossi, which is the only reason I mentioned them at all, so I don't know why you bring them up and then talk about Terran. A good Zealot/Archon build would never lose to low tech Zerg units. Roach/Hydra gets owned by Zealot/Archon, unless you kill the protoss before he gets enough Archons in which case, that's just bad play. As for Terran mech, which you seem to suggest is what needs NP the most, I'd just say that there are tons of "other methods" which we've all seen plenty of. Mutas can do wonders at buying a Zerg enough time to get the Broodlords out. The problem is Gateway units offer more maneuverability and more anti-air, and also the ability to push earlier on in the game - making it harder to expand or tech against (whereas Terran tech gives you a lot of free-time to expand and tech as long as you defend against hellions). Add Archons to the mix, and it becomes a nightmare to defend. If you haven't gone against a good Zealot/Archon build, it's hard to know just how effective it is. The fact that you think Roaches and Hydras beat a Gateway/Archon mix, "no big deal", tells me you're speaking from theory more than experience. I brought up corrupters because you said they counter colossi effectively, which is true but then you lose the ground battle. It's the same argument that's probably been debated 100 times in this thread. Corrupters were our best answer to colossi for months, and the fact that they are such a terrible unit to have to rely on is why infestors were buffed in the first place. Mutas are not efficient against mech and are easily countered by just a few ghosts or marines if the terran knows your making them. And mass roach/hydra or even roach/infestor (without NP, just using fungal) destroys zealot archon. This isn't theory crafting, I play zerg. Have you ever played as zerg? Because I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge that if you see zealot archon you just pump roaches and hydra if they're available. Have you? Gotta love that hyperbole, when you can't make a point. Zerg has beaten Terran mech with muta, how many examples do you need? And since when are Ghosts part of Terran mech until the late-late-game?
Have you? Gotta love that hyperbole, when you can't make a point.
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Zerg has beaten Terran mech with muta, how many examples do you need?
It works for sure. But it's a terrible thing to have to rely on. You're basically hoping you can pump out a shitload of mutas to overwhelm a few thors without them noticing.
And since when are Ghosts part of Terran mech until the late-late-game?
In the "late-late game." Marines are fine until then.
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On September 11 2011 11:55 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:29 Truedot wrote:On September 11 2011 11:24 ReignFayth wrote:On September 11 2011 11:11 Trealador wrote:On September 11 2011 10:57 Gatored wrote:
To all you people saying bane drops don't work. Tell that to Morrow. I'm pretty sure ZvP is his best matchup by far.
And to the ones saying that it's useless against protoss who micro. I heard fungal growth is good for holding units in place?
Please, please stop the retarded theorycrafting. Are you being intentionally dense or did you not read the thing that you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units anymore? Won't be useless, but is a pretty big nerf. you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units? wtf are you talking about? pretty sure hes meaning that units which drop from OLs wont Force all units away from the center of the drop point, and it will drop outside the ball at the closest point. Thus you can not explode an army from the center and surround/rape it. you dropping on the ball will have all your units drop all around it instead. WAIT WHAT? Where are you getting this from?
I just tested it on the PTR. You can no longer drop units within a tightly packed ball, banes drop on the outside of the group. Yay for buffing deathball!
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On September 11 2011 12:10 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:55 Flonomenalz wrote:On September 11 2011 11:29 Truedot wrote:On September 11 2011 11:24 ReignFayth wrote:On September 11 2011 11:11 Trealador wrote:On September 11 2011 10:57 Gatored wrote:
To all you people saying bane drops don't work. Tell that to Morrow. I'm pretty sure ZvP is his best matchup by far.
And to the ones saying that it's useless against protoss who micro. I heard fungal growth is good for holding units in place?
Please, please stop the retarded theorycrafting. Are you being intentionally dense or did you not read the thing that you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units anymore? Won't be useless, but is a pretty big nerf. you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units? wtf are you talking about? pretty sure hes meaning that units which drop from OLs wont Force all units away from the center of the drop point, and it will drop outside the ball at the closest point. Thus you can not explode an army from the center and surround/rape it. you dropping on the ball will have all your units drop all around it instead. WAIT WHAT? Where are you getting this from? I just tested it on the PTR. You can no longer drop units within a tightly packed ball, banes drop on the outside of the group. Yay for buffing deathball!
Is it listed anywhere in the patch notes?
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On September 11 2011 12:10 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 11:55 Flonomenalz wrote:On September 11 2011 11:29 Truedot wrote:On September 11 2011 11:24 ReignFayth wrote:On September 11 2011 11:11 Trealador wrote:On September 11 2011 10:57 Gatored wrote:
To all you people saying bane drops don't work. Tell that to Morrow. I'm pretty sure ZvP is his best matchup by far.
And to the ones saying that it's useless against protoss who micro. I heard fungal growth is good for holding units in place?
Please, please stop the retarded theorycrafting. Are you being intentionally dense or did you not read the thing that you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units anymore? Won't be useless, but is a pretty big nerf. you can no longer drop banelings in a group of units? wtf are you talking about? pretty sure hes meaning that units which drop from OLs wont Force all units away from the center of the drop point, and it will drop outside the ball at the closest point. Thus you can not explode an army from the center and surround/rape it. you dropping on the ball will have all your units drop all around it instead. WAIT WHAT? Where are you getting this from? I just tested it on the PTR. You can no longer drop units within a tightly packed ball, banes drop on the outside of the group. Yay for buffing deathball!
try it in the current patch, I think it was already like that
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Turn neural parasite into Neural Suicide. It can only be used on massive units, and sucks all the life out of the infestor to instantly blow up a massive unit.
there, problem solved.
Noone had a problem in brood war when people could Mass queens for 75 energy a pop to spawn broodlings instantly destroying tanks and adding zerg units to your forces instantly.
Queens had an ability that destroyed a strong enemy unit and also added units of your own to the field! This is like a perma-neural, which btw Neural Parasite was permanent back in beta.
Now that you can no longer take over massives, WHy not make Neural Permament again (yes, it was perma but still channeled meaning you had to cancel it to move your festor, they just reduceed its perma status to ridiculously low timer status so you other races wouldn't fear having their massive units perma taken)
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i like NP nerf. i think infestors are perhaps the most broken units right now. with this change, mech will be more viable in tvz. ultralisk build time buff is probably fair, i think i don't mind. i think tvz is the most fun match up to watch since there are just so many ways to play it. i hope tvp can be more a bit more dynamic.
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On September 11 2011 12:02 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2011 12:00 Elefanto wrote:On September 11 2011 11:59 Leporello wrote:On September 11 2011 11:40 atavus wrote:On September 11 2011 11:34 Leporello wrote:
They need to remove the massive trait from Archons if they put this build in.
I can see nerfing Neural Parasite, but to make it useless against Archons is basically ruining one of it's most essential uses and I think the match-up will be broken by Zealot-Archon builds. Remove the "massive" trait from Archons and I have no problem with this patch. That's SO biased that i'm asking myself what to answer. Removing "massive" from Archons is a very small change compared to what is happening to the Infestor. I actually think it's very reasonable suggestion. I don't know what else you think is "biased", expect to say that I have an opinion on something. There are a lot of deadly protoss builds, the Zealot/Archon is one that I feel requires NP the most. Yeah, lets kill pvp again. Yeah, because adding massive to Archons "fixed" PvP. What's going to help fix PvP is the Immortal buff. But this is digressing. I'm done responding to one-liners, peace.
It added variety and depth to PvP. Just because you've problem with a possible change doesn't mean you have to completely mess up another match-up that started to develop nicely with the archon change. If you remove "massive" from archons they're again useless, because you can force field them away, lift the with graviton beam and kite with concussive.
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I would rather that NP didn't work on Psionic units... Or perhaps both. I think having it not work on massive will encourage more interesting use of the ability, since it won't be so obvious which units to target. Still, I hate how you can target other spellcasters and DTs, and would love if it didn't work on Psionic either.
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On September 11 2011 12:00 ReignFayth wrote:
can't remove massive from archon or it'll make them worse vs marauders
This.
On September 11 2011 12:42 Gfire wrote:
I would rather that NP didn't work on Psionic units... Or perhaps both. I think having it not work on massive will encourage more interesting use of the ability, since it won't be so obvious which units to target. Still, I hate how you can target other spellcasters and DTs, and would love if it didn't work on Psionic either.
You can't do that sadly. As great of an idea as it sounds at first, you have to remember that ghosts are psionics too.
Currently, the TvZ meta game is shifting twards mass ghost usage to snipe Zergs T3 into space goo before it even gets to stand a chance.
With this happening, eventually we'll have to turn to finding ways to sneak infestors around to NP one of the ghosts in the pack to EMP the rest before we go into the fight, else we just get sniped to death.
Or atleast, this is where I see TvZ going until we see some T nerfs happen finally. :/
So until that changes, hope we never see psionic become the thing we can't NP, else we're in aloooooootta trouble. :<
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I'm watching a BW cast right now (I'm not that familiar with brood war, but I do enjoy watching it) and the protoss is using storm drops, something that is not used to my knowledge in SC2. Is this something that could be used if warp prisms are harder to pick off?
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On September 11 2011 00:50 Goliathsorrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 23:32 TheSubtleArt wrote:On September 10 2011 23:28 WeaVerPrime wrote:On September 10 2011 22:24 Goliathsorrow wrote:
A protoss deathball WITH HTs is still the strongest army, BUT, HTs right now sucks balls to use compared to ghosts and infestors... they do not cloak, they need 33 seconds to be able to do 1 storm after being warped, they are too slow which mean you cannot retreat from a battle without losing most of them or all of them and they are really hard to split because of this slow speed and they always stay behind compared to the army and bringing them in front or/middle army makes them too easy to just immediately die to broodlords and/or fungaled and not able to throw decent storms.
Also (at least this is true vs Z) you cannoy really rely on pure zealot late game so you gotta dump gas in other units that are not high templars so you will never match the number of infestors he has with your hts which renders the thing harder.
PvT is probably even worst (althought you have more gas to use in hts and archons) since EMP is so effective, ghosts are now much more easier to mass with the new cost they have frigging cloak which is easy to abuse by throwing all those 1000 scans terrans have late game and snipe the obvserver which have way too less hp to be microed around and must be put in front cuz of EMP's huge range.
I'm biased more than probably but the problem is that HT are not good enough compared to infestors and ghosts right now. That's the right way to explain the status-quo of Protoss... It's supposed to have the greatest lategame army when in fact Terran and Zerg are just strongeer cause of ghost and Infestor. We can see games with mass infestor, mass ghost (mvp vs july 4-5 days ago) but i'll never see mass HT... they're a step behind Anyway the infestor NP's nerf will not affect Protoss deathball... the fungal still online and deal 10 dps... remember that Lol Protoss lategame < T / Z lategame because mass HT < mass infestor / ghost is such a terrible oversimplification -_-. If a thing is simple it doesn't mean it's wrong. If HTs being weaker than the other big casters makes the late game hard how can it be an oversimplification ?
Guaging a casting unit's strength by how well it preforms in mass numbers of itself is just stupid and meaningless.
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Ok, so before I start I just want to clarify that I am in no way an "expert" on balance. Also, I would like to note that I am a Zerg player, and not a terribly good one at that. I am currently top 3 in my division in the silver league. This is also one of my first public posts on this forum...
However, with all that being said, I do enjoy playing Zerg quite a bit. Am I upset with the change to Neural Parasite? No.. I believe a better word would be... shocked. I can see the need to nerf NP in order to address balance changes. I can see uses for NP even after the nerf goes through (although not even some-what as effective or efficient) What I do not see, is why the nerf would be so drastic.
With only 8 attacking units (not including the queen), the Zerg have had to become quite creative in the ways that they use those units. Every other attacking unit may have "abilities" or "upgrades" (Burrow regen for roaches/adrenal glands for ling) But only the Zerg caster offers a variety of options outside of "attack". I believe Destiny called it a "High skill-cap unit" due to its versatility and the intensive micro it requires to use properly, not to mention creatively.
What I am getting at is... Why not develop some sort of compromise? Whether it be half-duration on massive units or no NP on massive air units, or even keeping the no-massive nerf but dropping the energy cost/increasing duration. I feel like NP is still a relatively underused spell (perhaps that is more than likely just the skill level of my peers and I), but I know that I use NP and it has been critical to my growth as a player. I don't think that I would have started using it if the spell had never targeted massive units. At this point in time, if Blizzard goes through with the patch, will I use NP?
More than likely... It still works great on air units (Void-Rays & Valks), it can still target tanks (the corner-stone of Terran strategy in ZvT it seems), and if I happen to be dominating.. Yeah, I can show off my /dance skills with your units ;-) Will I see Collossi and research it immediately? No... I will probably put that gas towards a spire.
But I would like to point out that Blizzard does have a vested interest in this game and while at times in the past units have been "broken" or "OP" as everybody likes to scream. At the end of the day, Blizzard is simply trying to make a better game. So please, stop whining. It won't do anything except make you and the rest of the Zerg players look immature. Is the nerf drastic, yes.. Is it the be-all, end-all of Zerg...? No..
For the record, I picked Zerg because (to me) it seemed to be the most challenging race to play.
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On September 11 2011 12:18 Truedot wrote:
Turn neural parasite into Neural Suicide. It can only be used on massive units, and sucks all the life out of the infestor to instantly blow up a massive unit.
there, problem solved.
Noone had a problem in brood war when people could Mass queens for 75 energy a pop to spawn broodlings instantly destroying tanks and adding zerg units to your forces instantly.
Queens had an ability that destroyed a strong enemy unit and also added units of your own to the field! This is like a perma-neural, which btw Neural Parasite was permanent back in beta.
Now that you can no longer take over massives, WHy not make Neural Permament again (yes, it was perma but still channeled meaning you had to cancel it to move your festor, they just reduceed its perma status to ridiculously low timer status so you other races wouldn't fear having their massive units perma taken)
Spawn broodling was 150 energy bro ;P
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EPT
