EPTHe just played a toss and...
OH LOOK! THE PROTOSS JUST MOVED OUT THE WAY! bane drop was super INEFFECTIVE.
<-- genuine surprise
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 377
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
He just played a toss and... OH LOOK! THE PROTOSS JUST MOVED OUT THE WAY! bane drop was super INEFFECTIVE. <-- genuine surprise | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:18 Treble557 wrote: He just played a toss and... OH LOOK! THE PROTOSS JUST MOVED OUT THE WAY! bane drop was super INEFFECTIVE. <-- genuine surprise oh wait, baneling drops shud be 100% winrate for zerg my bad im sorry | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:18 Treble557 wrote: He just played a toss and... OH LOOK! THE PROTOSS JUST MOVED OUT THE WAY! bane drop was super INEFFECTIVE. <-- genuine surprise I knew this comment would be posted. C'mon dude, that's like saying that Infestors are absolutely not OP because someone died to an early pressure while fast teching to them. He went straight to bane drop. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:13 ReignFayth wrote: ... sure on paper protosses would all play fucking perfect in a real game, not so much, also fungal prevents any kind of split Plus, even without Fungal, even with a perfect split, you're still going to kill all the Sentries and HTs. Not to mention the Protoss splitting his army makes Zerglings and Roaches better due to increased surface area. | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:06 Treble557 wrote: Try bane dropping marines in tvz then and come back to tell me how it went plz. That'll be hard, because marines have insane dps/cost, and they can clump up easily. Stalkers on the other hand... are a lot bigger and have dps similar to 1 marine against an overlord or baneling. But this post On September 11 2011 08:05 xbankx wrote: Also the point of baneling drop is not only to hit. Look baneling drop based zerg play versus toss is very not Im gonna hit everything with baneling and win. If that happens zerg already won, the way baneling drop works is completely nullfiying forcefields. It is often done with about 20-30 banelings in Ovies, and as they fly toward your oppenent's army. You send your roaches. Now toss has to make a decesion if toss FF, they sentries stays behind adn get nuked. If they don't, the roach army will close the distance and kill everything. Pretty much summed it up. | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:19 ReignFayth wrote: oh wait, baneling drops shud be 100% winrate for zerg my bad im sorry Any strat that can be 100% nullified by simply.. moving out of the way, isn't even gonna be a 50% win rate. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:21 Treble557 wrote: Any strat that can be 100% nullified by simply.. moving out of the way, isn't even gonna be a 50% win rate. wow you really are in denial, slush use baneling drops all the time I can guarantee his winrate zvp far surpasses 50% | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:20 Goliathsorrow wrote: I knew this comment would be posted. C'mon dude, that's like saying that Infestors are absolutely not OP because someone died to an early pressure while fast teching to them. Infestors are absolutly not OP. (GSL) Statistics suggest that if anything, Terran is OP... | ||
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vojnik
Macedonia923 Posts
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:23 Big J wrote: Infestors are absolutly not OP. (GSL) Statistics suggest that if anything, Terran is OP... Some high masters kid tried to beat destiny not... 20 mins ago? With infestor play, and destiny just A+moved a deathball into him and killed all 3 of his bases (one was gold). Destiny even went so far as to a+move, then go to a browser while a-moving, to youtube a song that had the name EZ in it, just browsing for any song called EZ, while his deathball A+moved to victory against the infestor play. By the time he tabbed back, the zerg GG'd and left. Because infestors are so OP. | ||
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Goliathsorrow
Italy317 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:23 Big J wrote: Infestors are absolutly not OP. (GSL) Statistics suggest that if anything, Terran is OP... I wasn't making the point that they are OP. I was just using it as an example that you cannot just deny something by using a wrong situation. Some high masters kid tried to beat destiny not... 20 mins ago? With infestor play, and destiny just A+moved a deathball into him and killed all 3 of his bases (one was gold). Destiny even went so far as to a+move, then go to a browser while a-moving, to youtube a song that had the name EZ in it, just browsing for any song called EZ, while his deathball A+moved to victory against the infestor play. By the time he tabbed back, the zerg GG'd and left. Because infestors are so OP. Good god man, calm yourself down. | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On September 11 2011 07:55 Treble557 wrote: Bane drops is indeed a gimmick. All you have to do is micro your gateway units by unit splitting, and guess what. You win. Why do you win? Because you can now go into the late game and get stalker/immortal/archon, and rape any unit comp involving ultras, or banes, or broods, or roaches. Bane drops are not effective anymore. Period. Bane drops are a gimmick now? Well perhaps at your level they are but I find them to be very effective and so do many pro zergs. I remember when I first started playing zerg I mentioned NP on colossi as a way of dealing with them in the TL strategy forum, I was promptly told I was an idiot. How about I tell you that NP is range 9, colossus range is 9 and colossi are always in the back, therefore NP on colossus is easily preventable and gimmicky. Theorycrafting is fun, much easier than actually playing. But I do actually play this game and I can tell you that baneling bombs on protoss balls are great. If they spread out their balls then they can't protect their colossi and they can't forcefield effectively (you'll probably kill most of the sentries anyway) and they will always take some damage from the banes - most of the time they take a lot. Baneling drops are far from being a gimmick, they are awesome. I don't agree with the NP change but don't pretend that NP was the only, or even the best, way of dealing with colossi. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:25 Treble557 wrote: Some high masters kid tried to beat destiny not... 20 mins ago? With infestor play, and destiny just A+moved a deathball into him and killed all 3 of his bases (one was gold). Destiny even went so far as to a+move, then go to a browser while a-moving, to youtube a song that had the name EZ in it, just browsing for any song called EZ, while his deathball A+moved to victory against the infestor play. By the time he tabbed back, the zerg GG'd and left. Because infestors are so OP. you forgot to mention that zerg just moved his army into the protoss and lost all his infestors without using any of their spell and then the rest of his army were hydralisks and roaches if you're going to mention extremely low level games to talk about balance you'd rather just not talk about balance at all | ||
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Treble557
United States221 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:30 ReignFayth wrote: you forgot to mention that zerg just moved his army into the protoss and lost all his infestors without using any of their spell and then the rest of his army were hydralisks and roaches if you're going to mention extremely low level games to talk about balance you'd rather just not talk about balance at all Really? He did? You were there watching? Because all the stream saw was a web browser as destiny looked at his base. You could kinda see what was happening on the mini map, but that's no indication of what abilities were and were not used. If you're gonna make claims of what happened in games, you should make sure you actually got to see the games first before commenting, because that wasn't the final battle at all. That was him trying to NP colossus and getting roasted for it, lololol. *edit* Come back and say bane drops are a viable way for pros to play btw when it wins a pro something important that wasn't back from last year. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:34 Treble557 wrote: Really? He did? You were there watching? Because all the stream saw was a web browser as destiny looked at his base. You could kinda see what was happening on the mini map, but that's no indication of what abilities were and were not used. If you're gonna make claims of what happened in games, you should make sure you actually got to see the games first before commenting, because that wasn't the final battle at all. That was him trying to NP colossus and getting roasted for it, lololol. wow were YOU watching? cuz the battle happened BEFORE he opened the browser, when he A moved the rest of his army, all of the zerg units were already dead stop trolling seriously, you're embarassing yourself jesus christ, using destiny's protoss to talk about balance | ||
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Ragnarok_1er
France45 Posts
It's weird to me how everyone talks about Colossi. Sure it's going to be annoying, but at my skill level Roach/Corruptors or Roach/Fungal still works. The thing I'm most worried about is how to beat Terran mech without NP for Thors. I already have a very hard time winning against it when I get NP in time, and when I forget it it's a 100% loss. And when I play TvZ, the only way I lose doing this build is very fast mutas with good control (that I don't possess as Z) or good NPs. So...yeah. Here's hoping this doesn't go through. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:25 Treble557 wrote: Some high masters kid tried to beat destiny not... 20 mins ago? With infestor play, and destiny just A+moved a deathball into him and killed all 3 of his bases (one was gold). Destiny even went so far as to a+move, then go to a browser while a-moving, to youtube a song that had the name EZ in it, just browsing for any song called EZ, while his deathball A+moved to victory against the infestor play. By the time he tabbed back, the zerg GG'd and left. Because infestors are so OP. Thank you for citing this one game as irrefutable proof of your point! You need to hurry and send blizz the replay so that they will know from this single case that they are indeed making a grave mistake! | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
This change makes no sense to me to be honest. And no I'm not a zerg player, its still a really akward and weird change. | ||
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
This guy gets it. On September 11 2011 08:36 Ragnarok_1er wrote: Hi, diamond random player here. It's weird to me how everyone talks about Colossi. Sure it's going to be annoying, but at my skill level Roach/Corruptors or Roach/Fungal still works. The thing I'm most worried about is how to beat Terran mech without NP for Thors. I already have a very hard time winning against it when I get NP in time, and when I forget it it's a 100% loss. And when I play TvZ, the only way I lose doing this build is very fast mutas with good control (that I don't possess as Z) or good NPs. So...yeah. Here's hoping this doesn't go through. | ||
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Truedot
444 Posts
On September 11 2011 08:34 Treble557 wrote: Really? He did? You were there watching? Because all the stream saw was a web browser as destiny looked at his base. You could kinda see what was happening on the mini map, but that's no indication of what abilities were and were not used. If you're gonna make claims of what happened in games, you should make sure you actually got to see the games first before commenting, because that wasn't the final battle at all. That was him trying to NP colossus and getting roasted for it, lololol. *edit* Come back and say bane drops are a viable way for pros to play btw when it wins a pro something important that wasn't back from last year. its sad when people spout what is completely fabricated nonsense to make the point about how one player was bad so he deserved to lose his army. Toss A moved, and won. What more needs to be said? You're (guy quoted) is saying that he didn't use fungals. we dont know that. Fungal isnt god mode unless you're 200/200 purely stalker and have insane micro and time sense. This is what makes infestor a gimmick. Its there for the best hand speed players, and it completely trumps a well balanced zerg force, as the well balanced force died to an a+move ball. that said, The best zergs can do if they trly want to a+move are to have ultras and roachs, banes if theres a lot of zealot meat shields, and hydras is theres a lot of immortals and less colossus. the ultras and roaches should be able to take the heat off the hydras long enough for all of your army to do critical damage. You will lose by less this way. The problem is T3 for zerg takes so long to do, and people say "They stay on roach too long". well no shit. its hard to tech up AND have a standing army to keep them from blasting u away. this is only accomplished with roaches, since they are the main zerg unit, like how hydra was in BW. Even then, they are still inefficient, because while being efficient vs unmicroed pure stalker, their efficiency drops like a rock with the addition of a colossus or a gaggle of zealot meatbags. On September 11 2011 08:25 vojnik wrote: so basically we will only use NP on immortals now (v P ofc)? Don't knock it though. I had great turnaround success with immortal. When peopel went stalker/imm, I NP the imm and take out the stalkers with amazing speed, along with my raoches. what you want to do is force stalkers to blink into your infestors to kill them, meaning you have roaches far enough in front that they cant shoot and hit infestor without blink. Then you have a shitton of lings around the festors to kill the stalkers, which will get themselves auto-surrounded by blinking into a zergling mess. things get a lot more complicated and tricky with colossus on the field, but needless to say, 1 NP'd immortal is worth 4 corruptors, and cheaper. On September 11 2011 08:43 hitpoint wrote: NP is trash against colossi anyway. This guy gets it. at higher levels people are getting wise and learning only to make just enough colossus to punish zerg with a rhinos bargain, i.e. you have to overmake corruptors to kill off the colossus, and then either suicide them or have them float helplessly are you're crushed by a huge ground army. its the same business with BCs and Carriers. you don't build them to use them directly. you build them to force the other player to mass a particular counter unit. and don't build more than 2 at a time. they're powerful for their solodps and their hand forcing. Ultralisks being reduced to 55 will definitely help the speed at which zerg gets T3, however I would've taken hive timing reduction of 15 seconds rather than ultra timing. Once you're on ultra, just pumping 2 per inject cycle is more than enough tohave a constant stream of them tearing down the enemy forces with proper support. Getting to ultras to have that ability is the issue, not how fast they build once you have ultras. It both is and isnt the same thing, because having the tech for ultras sooner would allow research sooner of their critical upgrade and fielding your first batch sooner, which really helps out. The other way, you'll field the first batch and all subsequent batches a little sooner, but the tech is later. | ||
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