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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 31 2011 20:04 Deekin[ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 19:59 Huragius wrote:On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. You are being retarded. And those a lot are ? Drones and Zerglings ?lol...(on ground) Well think about this then, when will a zerg not use drones or zerglings? Drones is ofcourse there all the time, needs no further explanation. And zerglings are used in almost any combination/composition of zerg-army.
lol. So are SCV and Probes. And pure zerglings shouldn't be made to defend against hellions, you have roaches for them, but because zerg players are so fucknig greedy, they are not going to spend money and gas on "expensive" roach tech ...
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On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS....  i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy)
Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor.
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On August 31 2011 20:14 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 20:04 Deekin[ wrote:On August 31 2011 19:59 Huragius wrote:On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. You are being retarded. And those a lot are ? Drones and Zerglings ?lol...(on ground) Well think about this then, when will a zerg not use drones or zerglings? Drones is ofcourse there all the time, needs no further explanation. And zerglings are used in almost any combination/composition of zerg-army. lol. So are SCV and Probes. And pure zerglings shouldn't be made to defend against hellions, you have roaches for them, but because zerg players are so fucknig greedy, they are not going to spend money and gas on "expensive" roach tech ...
Ofcourse you would get some roaches if you actually scout some hellions, especially blue-flame.
Still hellions can do alot of harrass with drops or even without them, throughout the game. and its not that bad to have some out for zerglings trying to attack some expand or something.
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I'm a terran player so this will be bias. IDC if they nerf BFH people just won't use it anymore, but WHY would they nerf barracks build time? It makes no sense at all it just totally messes with the 10 depot 12 rax 13 gas 15 marine 16 orbital build it delays it by 5 seconds which is ridiculous. I think the warp prism buff is good for protoss, I don't understand why they extended blink research I never realized how effective it was but it probably has to do with pvz (which i dont experience). I'm indifferent about infestors I just EMP them anyways. Mothership still probably won't be used
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On August 31 2011 20:14 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 20:04 Deekin[ wrote:On August 31 2011 19:59 Huragius wrote:On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. You are being retarded. And those a lot are ? Drones and Zerglings ?lol...(on ground) Well think about this then, when will a zerg not use drones or zerglings? Drones is ofcourse there all the time, needs no further explanation. And zerglings are used in almost any combination/composition of zerg-army. lol. So are SCV and Probes. And pure zerglings shouldn't be made to defend against hellions, you have roaches for them, but because zerg players are so fucknig greedy, they are not going to spend money and gas on "expensive" roach tech ...
That is an extremely slippery slope you're going down there... So one strong unit should *always* require a "counter"-unit to be dealt with, no matter what? Even if some units are very good vs others (blueflame helions vs lings etc), it would make for a very boring game if the unit compositions would be that linear (atm you can deal with blueflame helions with good surrounds, spines, etc at least).
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On August 31 2011 06:17 rpgalon wrote:
why does carriers still takes 120 seconds to build?
Even if they take shorter to build I don't think they will become popular, to be frank. They simply are not worth the money/supply. It's my least favorite unit and hopefully they will be gone or totally revamped in HotS.
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All in all I think the 1.4 proposed changes are quite good. Only thing I'd like to see is 10% slower banshee attack speed and 5% slower muta movement speed, or 5% weaker attack strength.
(before attacking me, look at how small the numbers are I'm suggesting)
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On August 31 2011 22:23 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
All in all I think the 1.4 proposed changes are quite good. Only thing I'd like to see is 10% slower banshee attack speed and 5% slower muta movement speed, or 5% weaker attack strength.
(before attacking me, look at how small the numbers are I'm suggesting)
Small numbers are pointless. I'll attack you because you want to make a meaningless change like that when all of those units are fine.
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On August 31 2011 20:18 OptimusYale wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS.... i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy) Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor.
m8 but you still mass infestors and come to me with full energy in my base and spam Fg....
u can produce more Infestors then i HTs... and dmg my army.... i as toss i can fedback but agean i dont have every time for some TSs...so agean infestors are joke how they are strong....
also burowed infestors in mineral line trow infested marines its joke how much powerfull it is.. agean spam marines or fg or whatewer...(HTs couldnt destroy EXpo with drops)
simply to much energy to do whatewer they whont... (insted of drops like HTs) they have burow and spam infested marines...(also can destroy expo..)
now FG is almoust efectiv like TS but ts is dogible and FG isnt.... u can blink as toss but if i fight zerg army they alweys FG my unites and stun them.. (after 1 FG ther is secund third...and on)...
so made FG slow unites down... or remuve energy of inf or something... also Ultralisc baff is hire so Zerg are eaven more powerfull now...
everybody tolk abouth imortall buff but toss are hard nerfed in this patch becous of blink 140 sec...its ok for PVP but agenst other races i dont know... i am OK with it but zerg need infestor nerf...now... and 1-1-1 nerf for terran...
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On August 31 2011 23:08 bole wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 20:18 OptimusYale wrote:On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS.... i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy) Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor. m8 but you still mass infestors and come to me with full energy in my base and spam Fg.... u can produce more Infestors then i HTs... and dmg my army.... i as toss i can fedback but agean i dont have every time for some TSs...so agean infestors are joke how they are strong.... also burowed infestors in mineral line trow infested marines its joke how much powerfull it is.. agean spam marines or fg or whatewer...(HTs couldnt destroy EXpo with drops) simply to much energy to do whatewer they whont... (insted of drops like HTs) they have burow and spam infested marines...(also can destroy expo..) now FG is almoust efectiv like TS but ts is dogible and FG isnt.... u can blink as toss but if i fight zerg army they alweys FG my unites and stun them.. (after 1 FG ther is secund third...and on)... so made FG slow unites down... or remuve energy of inf or something... also Ultralisc baff is hire so Zerg are eaven more powerfull now... everybody tolk abouth imortall buff but toss are hard nerfed in this patch becous of blink 140 sec...its ok for PVP but agenst other races i dont know... i am OK with it but zerg need infestor nerf...now... and 1-1-1 nerf for terran...
o.o woah
User was warned for this post
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On August 31 2011 23:08 bole wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 20:18 OptimusYale wrote:On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS.... i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy) Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor. m8 but you still mass infestors and come to me with full energy in my base and spam Fg.... u can produce more Infestors then i HTs... and dmg my army.... i as toss i can fedback but agean i dont have every time for some TSs...so agean infestors are joke how they are strong....also burowed infestors in mineral line trow infested marines its joke how much powerfull it is.. agean spam marines or fg or whatewer...(HTs couldnt destroy EXpo with drops) simply to much energy to do whatewer they whont... (insted of drops like HTs) they have burow and spam infested marines...(also can destroy expo..) now FG is almoust efectiv like TS but ts is dogible and FG isnt.... u can blink as toss but if i fight zerg army they alweys FG my unites and stun them.. (after 1 FG ther is secund third...and on)... so made FG slow unites down... or remuve energy of inf or something... also Ultralisc baff is hire so Zerg are eaven more powerfull now... everybody tolk abouth imortall buff but toss are hard nerfed in this patch becous of blink 140 sec...its ok for PVP but agenst other races i dont know... i am OK with it but zerg need infestor nerf...now... and 1-1-1 nerf for terran...
Wow, a whinefest. My head hurts from the whole text so let me just focus on what I bolded.
How are zergs producing more infestors then toss HT? You know they cost the same? You know you can warp HT from warpgates with 30s cooldown while infestors are 50s buildtime? At least toss can somehow kill off infestors before they use fungal growth. How do zerg stop Storm?
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On August 31 2011 23:30 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 23:08 bole wrote:On August 31 2011 20:18 OptimusYale wrote:On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS.... i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy) Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor. m8 but you still mass infestors and come to me with full energy in my base and spam Fg.... u can produce more Infestors then i HTs... and dmg my army.... i as toss i can fedback but agean i dont have every time for some TSs...so agean infestors are joke how they are strong....also burowed infestors in mineral line trow infested marines its joke how much powerfull it is.. agean spam marines or fg or whatewer...(HTs couldnt destroy EXpo with drops) simply to much energy to do whatewer they whont... (insted of drops like HTs) they have burow and spam infested marines...(also can destroy expo..) now FG is almoust efectiv like TS but ts is dogible and FG isnt.... u can blink as toss but if i fight zerg army they alweys FG my unites and stun them.. (after 1 FG ther is secund third...and on)... so made FG slow unites down... or remuve energy of inf or something... also Ultralisc baff is hire so Zerg are eaven more powerfull now... everybody tolk abouth imortall buff but toss are hard nerfed in this patch becous of blink 140 sec...its ok for PVP but agenst other races i dont know... i am OK with it but zerg need infestor nerf...now... and 1-1-1 nerf for terran... Wow, a whinefest. My head hurts from the whole text so let me just focus on what I bolded. How are zergs producing more infestors then toss HT? You know they cost the same? You know you can warp HT from warpgates with 30s cooldown while infestors are 50s buildtime? At least toss can somehow kill off infestors before they use fungal growth. How do zerg stop Storm?
He probably said that because generally most protoss compositions are much more gas intensive than zerg's for ling-infestor-(roach) styles. The only unit cheap in gas for us is the zealot, which is fairly cost inefficient against about all zerg units.
So yeah, generally it's just a fact that zerg will have way more infestors than we have templars, because he can choose to dump all of his gas in them, while we reasonably cannot. That being said, a fully charged templar can feedback 4 infestors, so it's not like we need a 1-to-1 ratio anyway.
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On August 31 2011 21:16 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 06:17 rpgalon wrote:
why does carriers still takes 120 seconds to build? Even if they take shorter to build I don't think they will become popular, to be frank. They simply are not worth the money/supply. It's my least favorite unit and hopefully they will be gone or totally revamped in HotS.
You like Colossi more than Carriers? Wow.
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On August 31 2011 23:42 0neder wrote:
You like Colossi more than Carriers? Wow.
Colossi are at least useful.
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On August 31 2011 23:40 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 23:30 -Archangel- wrote:On August 31 2011 23:08 bole wrote:On August 31 2011 20:18 OptimusYale wrote:On August 31 2011 18:45 bole wrote:i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time... look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS) before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs... also now its hepening with INFESTORS.... i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy) Infestors need to slide everywhere....templar were just being warped in and stormed ANYWHERE on the map. That is why they needed to remove amulet but why glands should stay as well as mobius reactor. m8 but you still mass infestors and come to me with full energy in my base and spam Fg.... u can produce more Infestors then i HTs... and dmg my army.... i as toss i can fedback but agean i dont have every time for some TSs...so agean infestors are joke how they are strong....also burowed infestors in mineral line trow infested marines its joke how much powerfull it is.. agean spam marines or fg or whatewer...(HTs couldnt destroy EXpo with drops) simply to much energy to do whatewer they whont... (insted of drops like HTs) they have burow and spam infested marines...(also can destroy expo..) now FG is almoust efectiv like TS but ts is dogible and FG isnt.... u can blink as toss but if i fight zerg army they alweys FG my unites and stun them.. (after 1 FG ther is secund third...and on)... so made FG slow unites down... or remuve energy of inf or something... also Ultralisc baff is hire so Zerg are eaven more powerfull now... everybody tolk abouth imortall buff but toss are hard nerfed in this patch becous of blink 140 sec...its ok for PVP but agenst other races i dont know... i am OK with it but zerg need infestor nerf...now... and 1-1-1 nerf for terran... Wow, a whinefest. My head hurts from the whole text so let me just focus on what I bolded. How are zergs producing more infestors then toss HT? You know they cost the same? You know you can warp HT from warpgates with 30s cooldown while infestors are 50s buildtime? At least toss can somehow kill off infestors before they use fungal growth. How do zerg stop Storm? He probably said that because generally most protoss compositions are much more gas intensive than zerg's for ling-infestor-(roach) styles. The only unit cheap in gas for us is the zealot, which is fairly cost inefficient against about all zerg units. So yeah, generally it's just a fact that zerg will have way more infestors than we have templars, because he can choose to dump all of his gas in them, while we reasonably cannot. That being said, a fully charged templar can feedback 4 infestors, so it's not like we need a 1-to-1 ratio anyway. That's right. Infestor centric build will have generally more infestors than Toss can have HTs. But don't forget that the zerg army useless without infetor and 1HT render 1 infestor useless, but if you wait a little, it render 2 and 3 and so on as HT gather enery.
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Loveing the fact that Infestors, the unit that can Defend ground/air/Invisible units with spells and Harass expo's/harass in general isnt getting a nerf against protoss.
Now i don't know how people consider things to be OP, but if i remember correctly, the voidray was nerfed from 7 to 6 range because Marines couldnt hit it, Yet. a Unit that makes a whole army stand still and unable to attack Blords ect gets to stay.
Zerg's defending the Infestors are ruining the game, its literally the worst mechanic in game, it ruins not only Micro but it also ruins all engagements late game. a Zerg can Trade army's with a Protoss @ 200/200, when they can resupply 200/200 in less then 40sec. It nullifies any harass whatsoever and it also nullifies any Engagement.
Shit is funny
Really like the Immortal change tho, going to help defend against 1-1-1 and Early aggression from Terran's. Warp prism Buff is also extremely good if not a little too good imo. wel see.
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Isnt bliz funny! First buff FG damage, now nerf it. Infestor needs more fine tuning, that much is certain. Free infested terrans that dont cost any supply can destroy an enemy's nexus/hatchery/command center with ease are more than welcome. But, seriously, the race that needs to QQ less about festors is the terran. Keep whining about infestors needing a serious nerf cause they cant roflstomp zerg as easily with marine/tanks anymore, they need ghosts as well - boohoo. Noone remembers terran have the most ways of detecting invisible/burrowed units? That includes infestors as well - but, hey, why waste energy on scans when you can abuse moneycabs(Bliz calls em "mules") and keep your economy up even when you lost 15 scvs? What? Raven? Aw man, landing a starport next to a techlab is hard and the 200 gas is too much...Secondly, ghosts have EMP round right from the start by default without the need to research it - doesnt that seem a bit unfair?Its a spell(yes, an AREA SPELL as well) that can cripple an entire race by reducing their hp by 30% and drain 100 energy from other races' casters. It definitely should be researchable. Players make ghosts for EMP, not snipe.
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I don't think the infestor nerf is really necessary. They should allow protoss and terran players more time to adapt to the metagame changes before deciding to nerf FG. I'm not seeing any convincing signs that zerg is overpowered, in any matchup, at any level.
Ghosts and HTs are very effective at countering infestors. The fact that so few people use them (and even fewer use them well) is not a balance concern.
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On September 01 2011 00:45 Voltekka wrote:
Isnt bliz funny! First buff FG damage, now nerf it. Infestor needs more fine tuning, that much is certain. Free infested terrans that dont cost any supply can destroy an enemy's nexus/hatchery/command center with ease are more than welcome. But, seriously, the race that needs to QQ less about festors is the terran. Keep whining about infestors needing a serious nerf cause they cant roflstomp zerg as easily with marine/tanks anymore, they need ghosts as well - boohoo. Noone remembers terran have the most ways of detecting invisible/burrowed units? That includes infestors as well - but, hey, why waste energy on scans when you can abuse moneycabs(Bliz calls em "mules") and keep your economy up even when you lost 15 scvs? What? Raven? Aw man, landing a starport next to a techlab is hard and the 200 gas is too much...Secondly, ghosts have EMP round right from the start by default without the need to research it - doesnt that seem a bit unfair?Its a spell(yes, an AREA SPELL as well) that can cripple an entire race by reducing their hp by 30% and drain 100 energy from other races' casters. It definitely should be researchable. Players make ghosts for EMP, not snipe.
What the... ? O_O
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On September 01 2011 00:59 Synistre wrote:
I don't think the infestor nerf is really necessary. They should allow protoss and terran players more time to adapt to the metagame changes before deciding to nerf FG. I'm not seeing any convincing signs that zerg is overpowered, in any matchup, at any level.
Ghosts and HTs are very effective at countering infestors. The fact that so few people use them (and even fewer use them well) is not a balance concern.
m8 what to adapt ? on what ? infestors spam marines kill nexus kill army with FG kill colloss with coroption (take controll of your colloss) spam infestors spam FG ... all game... That unite is more broken then marines lol 
simply one unite to kill everything is bad gameplay in my point of weuve its not yust balance its gameplay to... they should revork maby hirdas or something but problem is that 1 unite do the job of 3 unites... that is = broken gameplay...(like marines..) air graund armored light ...whatewer...
its not yust balance its gameplay..end
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EPT
