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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
^FG still kills marines, zealots, stalkers, sentries in the same number of hits.
It takes one more FG to kill a ghost and viking.
It takes about 2 more or so to kill things like colossi and void rays.
So what people QQ about infestor being OP, it won't change. It may help in TvZ, as T will still get raped unless they are adequately prepared with viking for BL or ghosts, in which case it may be a more forgiving battle for endgame T.
But this does nerf the reason infestors were buffed in the first place, to deal with ridiculous deathballs from Protoss that Zerg can't really counter in any sort of efficiency (yes, mass corruptor, but that is ridiculously stupid in any other setting, and if Zerg doesn't foresee P going VR/Colossi and masses Corruptors, they straight up lose).
So I'm not exactly sure about everything about it, but it doesn't seem like a good nerf - because it doesn't change what people cried about, and hurts Zerg where they needed the patch in the first place.
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On August 31 2011 14:10 Belial88 wrote:
^FG still kills marines, zealots, stalkers, sentries in the same number of hits.
It takes one more FG to kill a ghost and viking.
It takes about 2 more or so to kill things like colossi and void rays.
So what people QQ about infestor being OP, it won't change. It may help in TvZ, as T will still get raped unless they are adequately prepared with viking for BL or ghosts, in which case it may be a more forgiving battle for endgame T.
But this does nerf the reason infestors were buffed in the first place, to deal with ridiculous deathballs from Protoss that Zerg can't really counter in any sort of efficiency (yes, mass corruptor, but that is ridiculously stupid in any other setting, and if Zerg doesn't foresee P going VR/Colossi and masses Corruptors, they straight up lose).
So I'm not exactly sure about everything about it, but it doesn't seem like a good nerf - because it doesn't change what people cried about, and hurts Zerg where they needed the patch in the first place.
yeah i just tested it. i think this patch really is also beneficial to zerg.. increased rax build time, decreased ultra time, increase blink research time, decrease in blue flame dmg, the ramp vision thing maybe harder to FF the ramp, etc
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Roaches are pretty bad against properly positioned mech army.
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Saying it takes the same amount of fungles to kill the units is completely missing the point. The rate in which the units die is going to become noticably slower. Just go on the PTR and look... grab your terran buddy and run some tests on marine/medivac. The change took infestors from feeling slightly OP to feeling just right. I havent tested with protoss units yet, but the fact is, the damage comes less quickly so your units will be that much stronger... will get off a couple more shots... will utilize their armor upgrades for a slightly longer period of time.
I think one thing protoss players need to really start doing alot more of in this current game-state is getting both armor and attack upgrades. I'm guilty of as much as well, but you always see protoss rushing to +2 with their blink stalkers, etc. That's GREAT against roaches, but infestorling is the trend and if your opponent is getting melee attack upgrades you need to match it with armor or the lings will completely melt you. Double forge might even be worthwhile...
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Netherlands2735 Posts
There is also the fact that you need to exactly chain and not have any overlapping to kill gate units in the same amount of fungals, and that may not be optimal unless you have gosu timing because units will spread out and blink away in case of stalkers, so...
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On August 31 2011 16:23 Shalaiyn wrote:
There is also the fact that you need to exactly chain and not have any overlapping to kill gate units in the same amount of fungals, and that may not be optimal unless you have gosu timing because units will spread out and blink away in case of stalkers, so...
i see your point; but its pretty easy to keep a constant fungal + bane drop on opponent. while all ur roaches or whatever are attacking.
its not just infestors vs protoss army, its infestors + and all his buddies ; therefore all/most toss units are taking dmg nd negating any shield recharge, so ur fungals dont have to be exactly on point.
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On August 31 2011 07:53 Striding Strider wrote:
CB increasing unit mana regen would be cool.
That's actually a very interisting idea.
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On August 31 2011 14:10 Belial88 wrote:
^FG still kills marines, zealots, stalkers, sentries in the same number of hits.
It takes one more FG to kill a ghost and viking.
It takes about 2 more or so to kill things like colossi and void rays.
So what people QQ about infestor being OP, it won't change. It may help in TvZ, as T will still get raped unless they are adequately prepared with viking for BL or ghosts, in which case it may be a more forgiving battle for endgame T.
But this does nerf the reason infestors were buffed in the first place, to deal with ridiculous deathballs from Protoss that Zerg can't really counter in any sort of efficiency (yes, mass corruptor, but that is ridiculously stupid in any other setting, and if Zerg doesn't foresee P going VR/Colossi and masses Corruptors, they straight up lose).
So I'm not exactly sure about everything about it, but it doesn't seem like a good nerf - because it doesn't change what people cried about, and hurts Zerg where they needed the patch in the first place.
why don't you consider the medivac healing ? Please why ?
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i think infestors need more nerf... simply every time i play agenst em its they pop out like 6 ,7.. and more infestors who spaming FG all time... remove energy up it will be fair i think and also it will remove spaming infestors (6 and more) all the time...
look at HTs spaming Hts is stoped by removing energy up from em... (spaming TS)
before when you get HTs you spam TS (ower minerall lines ) ower army as toss u build HTs and that is it there is no reason whay not spam HTs...
also now its hepening with INFESTORS....  i think remove energy up would help...(to not spam inf like crazy)
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On August 31 2011 02:53 Fuhrmaaj wrote:
The hellion is currently: 8 + 6 (vs light) + 10 (vs light pre-igniter)
This changes it to: 8 + 6 (vs light) + 5 (vs light pre-igniter)
I would rather see: 9 + 10 (vs light pre-igniter)
(keep upgrades at +1/+1 vs light)
With your suggestion red flames would need 5 shots to kill workers, which is an excessive nerf.
With the nerf to +5, blue flames will still two shot lings. So the currently popular blue flame into marine/tank with all the upgrades build will still afford T early map control and allow them an easy path to the first push. It just won't let them utterly destroy the Z economy so that they have no hope of recovering.
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On August 31 2011 14:30 Lordwar wrote:
Roaches are pretty bad against properly positioned mech army.
I think that's the reason for the ultra build time.
Ultras building in 55 makes them less of a risk to remax with.
I like the changes, contaminate needs to go up as overseers get cheaper otherwise you could get 5-6 really early overseers and contaminate opposing hatch in ZvZ forever. Cheaper overseers make scouting cheaper and more effective.
Hellions were a rather obvious change, barracks build I am guessing is just for 1/1/1 (delays build as a whole by 5 seconds) or 2 rax rushes on Z. The blink change is a little unexpected but nice, 6 gate blink stalkers is a ridiculously hard hit in PvZ, giving Zerg just a little more time to scout it might help.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
On August 31 2011 18:31 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 14:10 Belial88 wrote:
^FG still kills marines, zealots, stalkers, sentries in the same number of hits.
It takes one more FG to kill a ghost and viking.
It takes about 2 more or so to kill things like colossi and void rays.
So what people QQ about infestor being OP, it won't change. It may help in TvZ, as T will still get raped unless they are adequately prepared with viking for BL or ghosts, in which case it may be a more forgiving battle for endgame T.
But this does nerf the reason infestors were buffed in the first place, to deal with ridiculous deathballs from Protoss that Zerg can't really counter in any sort of efficiency (yes, mass corruptor, but that is ridiculously stupid in any other setting, and if Zerg doesn't foresee P going VR/Colossi and masses Corruptors, they straight up lose).
So I'm not exactly sure about everything about it, but it doesn't seem like a good nerf - because it doesn't change what people cried about, and hurts Zerg where they needed the patch in the first place. why don't you consider the medivac healing ? Please why ?
In a realistic scenario we are going to have 1 medivac per say 8 marines (usual drop scenario). This means that the terran will keep 1 marine alive if 2 fungals are landed (which is pretty easy to do).
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Overall a good patch:
-Blueflame nerf: was expected and in my opinion a good decision, even though i think it is too expensive now. 150/150 for +5 damage against light seems too expensive.
-Infestor nerf: I waited for this for a while  feels like a good change.
-Barracks nerf: Can't really understand why they change this...
I'm looking forward to seeker missile-play. IMO it's a good ability, maybe the raven will be used more now (harassing, maybe)?
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Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units.
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On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units.
Well it's only the zergling tbh...
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On August 31 2011 19:50 Blackk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. Well it's only the zergling tbh...
it goes from being an essential upgrade to being a choice. that's a good thing.
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On August 31 2011 19:59 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. You are being retarded. And those a lot are ? Drones and Zerglings ?lol...(on ground)
Well think about this then, when will a zerg not use drones or zerglings?
Drones is ofcourse there all the time, needs no further explanation.
And zerglings are used in almost any combination/composition of zerg-army.
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On August 31 2011 19:59 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2011 19:46 darkness wrote:
Stop being retarded with comments like '150/150 for +5 damage is too expensive'. This is AoE damage. Zerg uses/has a lot of light units. You are being retarded. And those a lot are ? Drones and Zerglings ?lol...(on ground)
Those happen to be their most used ground units in TvZ.
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The immortal buff won't be enough to shut down a properly scouted 1-1-1. Protoss need a response to that, it's just too powerful. One misstep and it's all over, terran doesn't even need much skill to execute it...
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EPT
