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RBKeys
Canada196 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:29 XsebT wrote: Grubby just promoted map hacking. Now read your comment. Now back to me... get it? It's not map hacking -- it's simplifying game controls. Besides that, you should READ my comment "How does it undermine competitive gaming?" It doesn't because it's not allowed in competitive gaming. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:28 Slardar wrote: That is obvious, that is why I used the GUN ANALOGY. You can use a gun to kill humans, animals, or for self-protection. It's exactly the same thing, can you think about it for a second before you post? There is nothing wrong with the keyboard. A lot of todays keyboards do have these features in them, and if anything they might fall behind if they don't include them. However promoting them in such a way to cheat at the game, is far the same as people selling guns. Continueing with the gun analogy, it's more like advertising how to use a gun to kill a person(not really meant to be dramatic, but yer...). | ||
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kawaiiryuko
United States368 Posts
2) This is basically an APM multiplier. 3) The marine into dropship macro at the very beginning is sick!  Especially with the MMA's marine-dropship-to-snipe-zerg-tech movement on the ladder now. 4) Godwin's Law has been invoked. Shouldn't someone close the thread now?  | ||
Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:31 RBKeys wrote: Devalues their effort? Cheese play devalues their effort as well. You have lots of players try and play and get better and what do they face? Wall ins and all ins that screw them over anyways. Hell, maybe this will inspire people to learn better tactics since they won't need to rely on simple cheese to win. Cheesing is within the rules of the game. That doesn't devalue their effort. Cheating to beat people does, because it makes their efforts less legitimate. say alot of people start using macro's on ladder. suddenly people look at a high ladder rank and go "lol he probably just macro's, ladder is stupid blah blah" and that persons effort is devalued. On June 10 2011 02:31 Mordiford wrote: Stop using your slippery slope argument, that seems to be all you fucking have. What if Grubby went and drove a bus full of dynamite into a school? Is that okay? No, so it's a good thing he didn't fucking do that. He's endorsing a product in a stupid way, but it's use is similar to the product which Blizzard themselves put out. To answer all your individual slipper slope bullshit, If Grubby came out with how to install and utilize a map hack, that wouldn't be okay. Good thing he didn't fucking do that. he's advocating and showing HOW to cheat. What i'm saying is, this is exactly the same as endorsing a map hack. map hacking and macro keyboards both give an advantage in the game that people playing within the rules DONT have. theres no slope here. he's in the fucking hole | ||
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RBKeys
Canada196 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:33 Klipsys wrote: Because the rules can only do so much. In a LAN setting this can be prevented, but online tournaments probably cannot. I'm not naive, I understand this isn't the first nor the last of these types of keyboard, I think even mine has macro functions; A pro-gamer didn't tell me to buy this one thought.... Then maybe online tournaments need to change of be discontinued because by that logic anyone can take advantage of the system and ruin it. I don't want to start a discussion on online tournaments, but in my opinion LAN's will always be a higher calibre. | ||
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Khanz
France214 Posts
How can we be sure you get banned using this keyboard ? what a total nonsens if blizzard is selling similar stuff >.< please someone enlighten me here | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:34 RBKeys wrote: It's not map hacking -- it's simplifying game controls. Besides that, you should READ my comment "How does it undermine competitive gaming?" It doesn't because it's not allowed in competitive gaming. No it's not map hacking, and that's not my fucking point. They both represent an unfair advantage, but apparently map hacking is much worse than having a bot doing controls for you? | ||
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brutality
United States167 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:33 XsebT wrote: That's an unbelievably stupid comment. Do you know what a macro is? Because a progamer just promoted using them. Honestly who cares if grubby endorses it? He's sponsored by Steelseries and obviously got paid for that commercial. I rather doubt someone like grubby would actually use macros in game... | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:36 Kiante wrote: Cheesing is within the rules of the game. That doesn't devalue their effort. Cheating to beat people does, because it makes their efforts less legitimate. say alot of people start using macro's on ladder. suddenly people look at a high ladder rank and go "lol he probably just macro's, ladder is stupid blah blah" and that persons effort is devalued. he's advocating and showing HOW to cheat. What i'm saying is, this is exactly the same as endorsing a map hack. map hacking and macro keyboards both give an advantage in the game that people playing within the rules DONT have. theres no slope here. he's in the fucking hole Not all broken rules are equal, he's showing you how to use macros in the context of Starcraft 2 which is the major issue, but the option is available on the Blizzard keyboard made for Starcraft 2 as well. If you really think that displaying the use of macros in a video with a disclaimer such as this one had, is the equivalent of teaching people how to fucking map hack, then this isn't going anywhere. | ||
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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
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Klipsys
United States1533 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:23 Slardar wrote: @Klipsys - Grubby has been pro-gaming for (8?) years, I'm pretty sure he's aware of the ramifications and would never condone cheating. How can you even judge the guy who's been making his living off pro gaming for God knows how long? That's fine, I'm aware of the length of his career and no, I don't make any attempts to judge him as an individual. I can and will however, judge his actions, and by supporting this product and demonstaring it's use to me seems irresponsible | ||
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RBKeys
Canada196 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:36 Kiante wrote: Cheesing is within the rules of the game. That doesn't devalue their effort. Cheating to beat people does, because it makes their efforts less legitimate. say alot of people start using macro's on ladder. suddenly people look at a high ladder rank and go "lol he probably just macro's, ladder is stupid blah blah" and that persons effort is devalued. Not everyone is going to go out and buy this though (this is obvious from the response that people have had in this thread). I'm sure there are cheaper and easier ways of "cheating" the game as opposed to this steel series keyboard, yet how many people do you run into on the ladder that actually use them? In my experience, not very much. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Nick!
Scotland701 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:35 Zarahtra wrote: There is nothing wrong with the keyboard. A lot of todays keyboards do have these features in them, and if anything they might fall behind if they don't include them. However promoting them in such a way to cheat at the game, is far the same as people selling guns. Continueing with the gun analogy, it's more like advertising how to use a gun to kill a person(not really meant to be dramatic, but yer...). It would be similar to showing how to use a gun to kill deer or a target-practice dummy deer in a controlled environment. It's still has nothing to do with Grubby or SteelSeries condoning cheating because all these functions exist on keyboards sold by Blizzard themselves so if they are wrong, Blizzard is wrong. It's merely a guide, the examples look to be in a single player style. | ||
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brutality
United States167 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:40 zul wrote: During an offline event it may be easy to control all hardware used by the players, but what about online tourneys? Imagine player A using a standart keyboard and player B using a macro-keyboard. Player B clearly has an advantage, but how to check for this? In warcraft3 there were tools that showed you every action done by the players (including all pressed keys) and this could be usefull for sc2 as well. BUT what admin-team has the time to check all the replays from a 1024 or 512 player tourney?? Anyways, I am really disappointed seeing Grubby advertising this. I played at MLG dallas and they only banned a few keyboards. The razer i used has the ability for macros and saves your profiles in the keyboard. Obviously i don't use them but most good keyboards today have them. | ||
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Kiante
Australia7069 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:40 RBKeys wrote: Not everyone is going to go out and buy this though (this is obvious from the response that people have had in this thread). I'm sure there are cheaper and easier ways of "cheating" the game as opposed to this steel series keyboard, yet how many people do you run into on the ladder that actually use them? In my experience, not very much. Not everyone buying it is my point. If literally everyone was using them, then theres a level playing field. having SOME people using them creates an uneven playing field, making ladder ranking get devalued because its hard to take a competition where everyone doesn't start the game out equal seriously. | ||
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
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RBKeys
Canada196 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:38 XsebT wrote: No it's not map hacking, and that's not my fucking point. They both represent an unfair advantage, but apparently map hacking is much worse than having a bot doing controls for you? What is your point then? You obviously made a point about saying "Grubby just promoted map hacking" and took my comment about this products affect on competitive gaming right out of context. | ||
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ElPeque.fogata
Uruguay462 Posts
games are won and lost mainly by good decision making, possitioning, mindgames, scouting, etc. And optimal responses to all that stuff can't be made into macros. the only game breaking stuff would be like... autoinjecting, auto creep spreading, etc. And most of the times "auto", would sometimes actually hurt you. Say for example... you needed to save queen energy in one specific queen to place an important creep tumor, or to cast a transfuse that could win you the game. I wouldn't use it even if i had it for free and it was allowed by blizzard. | ||
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