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On June 10 2011 01:42 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:38 Jibba wrote:On June 10 2011 01:34 Samhax wrote:On June 10 2011 01:25 Jibba wrote:On June 10 2011 01:25 Chinchillin wrote:
Nice slanderous title The title is the exact situation. Regardless of whether Blizzard does it too, Grubby is promoting a way to cheat in SC2. The counterarguments about Blizzard are just a red herring (although as I said before, Blizzard's actions are dubious as well.) For me the right title would be Grubby promotes Keyboards with macro in sc2, is it right? Then we can discuss about macros in competitive play, casual play, the ToS, Blizzard, etc. This title is clearly unfair for him. He's not just showing off keyboards. This isn't Rotty or someone saying "I use a Blackwidow." He's actually showing and explaining the different SC2 production/control macros. He's basically selling the software package more than the keyboard itself. Yeah, this is exactly what it is. But I don't think we can blame him much for this cos SS sponsors him. However I hope that SS will realize this will do terrible terrible damage for their reputation, and pull the products off the market.
Pull the products? LOL
There are more games than SC2....
They should probably take the video down though. It will just get them more shit than its worth. Grubby obviously doesn't need to use macros to play so I doubt he can get in any trouble for this.
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I feel bad for Steelseries.
Not researching the starcraft market very well and think its the bronze players that they have to tap into rather than the gold through masters.
And then using a progamer to advertise actions that are almost never condoned by diamond and up players.
I think this will do more harm than good in terms of costumers from the SC2 scene for Steelseeries.
I hope Razer sees this as a time to gain ground on the sc2 market by bringing out an advert that is truely aligned to the market, they could win some costumers over Steelseries I bet.
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:42 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:31 Kiante wrote:On June 10 2011 01:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Does Grubby even know this is cheating? Select didn't know that playing on other people's accounts to raise their ranks was illegal. did grubby install sc2? If he did he would've agreed to the TOS. For something as shady as this the responsibility is his to go back and check that it's allowed. There's a difference between knowing and should know. See my previous example with Select.
Select is just as bad. you are forced to agree to the TOS when you install sc2 and theres no excuses when you fuck up, especially something this obvious and this public. assuming that select and grubby are just stupid is pretty dumb tbh. grubby played wc3 for years? Pretty sure they had similar rules in that too....
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This is getting ridiculous.
Of course macro can help you tremendously and if pros don't use it, that's not because "it's useless for them" or that they "wouldn't improve using it", its just that's it's purely and simply forbidden.
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On June 10 2011 01:44 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:42 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 10 2011 01:31 Kiante wrote:On June 10 2011 01:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Does Grubby even know this is cheating? Select didn't know that playing on other people's accounts to raise their ranks was illegal. did grubby install sc2? If he did he would've agreed to the TOS. For something as shady as this the responsibility is his to go back and check that it's allowed. There's a difference between knowing and should know. See my previous example with Select. Yes, but if he installed the game then he must have reached a point at which he hit "I AGREE" to the terms of use. That means he can no longer say "Oh, I didn't know".
Legally, yeah. I was speaking more on general terms and in a hypothetic situation. It's not a strong argument, I'll agree, just a point to consider.
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I think the title is depicts what is happening. If you are doing a commercial or something like that you are putting your name with the product. Grubby is showing people how to use these macros, even if he is getting money for it he should know what the right thing to do is.
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Can you really use the word illegal here?
afaik breaking a TOS isn't illegal.
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I think we all now that Grubby invented Macro keyboards and is responsible for anyone using them...
It's not cheating to demo the feature of a product, and there's clearly acceptable uses (single player?) for macros if blizzard sponsors other keyboards/they exist.
Using the keyboard, even if it's in a product video, isn't promoting cheating, because its possible to use the keyboard without cheating. Grubby is not responsible for this at all, and I highly doubt Steelseries would develop the product/make this add without some type of research. This isn't new information and it could mean a lot of their customers getting banned. Not only would this be a PR nightmare but would directly lose them customers and reputation. Again, not the first macro-keyboard to be advertised for SC2.
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World of Warcraft has addons and custom keyboards to help you in pvp or pve, why shouldnt SC2 have ?
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On June 10 2011 01:45 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Can you really use the word illegal here?
afaik breaking a TOS isn't illegal.
i agree on this. the word is wrong in this situation.
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On June 10 2011 01:45 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:44 Razuik wrote:On June 10 2011 01:42 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 10 2011 01:31 Kiante wrote:On June 10 2011 01:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Does Grubby even know this is cheating? Select didn't know that playing on other people's accounts to raise their ranks was illegal. did grubby install sc2? If he did he would've agreed to the TOS. For something as shady as this the responsibility is his to go back and check that it's allowed. There's a difference between knowing and should know. See my previous example with Select. Yes, but if he installed the game then he must have reached a point at which he hit "I AGREE" to the terms of use. That means he can no longer say "Oh, I didn't know". Legally, yeah. I was speaking more on general terms and in a hypothetic situation. It's not a strong argument, I'll agree, just a point to consider.
I can see what you mean. In the eyes of a fan the "I AGREE" doesn't effect them. He is responsible in terms of relation to blizzard.
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On June 10 2011 01:46 SuperStyle wrote:
World of Warcraft has addons and custom keyboards to help you in pvp or pve, why shouldnt SC2 have ?
You need to read the ToS.
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Looks bad on Steelseries =\.
No blame can really be put on Grubby here because I doubt anybody would turn down the no doubt foolish amount of money that he was paid to do this.
You don't say no to money.
Not for something like this anyway.
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On June 10 2011 01:25 Jibba wrote:The title is the exact situation. Regardless of whether Blizzard does it too, Grubby is promoting a way to cheat in SC2. The counterarguments about Blizzard are just a red herring (although as I said before, Blizzard's actions are dubious as well.)
I'm sorry I had to log in from work just to debate this. How is Grubby promoting cheating in SC2 here Jibba, are you serious? Not only that, this title is horrendously misleading and slanderous, Grubby doesn't deserve that. He's not TELLING you to go macro-cheat, what I got from this is this; he's condoning the use of macros and showing you how to use them. Everyone has already pointed out Razer & Blizzard sell similar type of keyboards which can do the same thing, SteelSeries is just putting that in motion here by showing you how to go about using these functions present on the keyboards.
I can best relate this with an analogy like this one: You are being taught how to use a Rifle. Does that mean the teacher is condoning the murder of human beings or animals? You can stretch that border of accusation, and if anything we can agree it's controversial; therefore this title should err on the side of neutrality/caution in the matter. Obviously the intent here isn't to promote "cheating", SteelSeries isn't an ignorant company to promote something illegal.
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On June 10 2011 01:47 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:45 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 10 2011 01:44 Razuik wrote:On June 10 2011 01:42 Torte de Lini wrote:On June 10 2011 01:31 Kiante wrote:On June 10 2011 01:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Does Grubby even know this is cheating? Select didn't know that playing on other people's accounts to raise their ranks was illegal. did grubby install sc2? If he did he would've agreed to the TOS. For something as shady as this the responsibility is his to go back and check that it's allowed. There's a difference between knowing and should know. See my previous example with Select. Yes, but if he installed the game then he must have reached a point at which he hit "I AGREE" to the terms of use. That means he can no longer say "Oh, I didn't know". Legally, yeah. I was speaking more on general terms and in a hypothetic situation. It's not a strong argument, I'll agree, just a point to consider. I can see what you mean. In the eyes of a fan the "I AGREE" doesn't effect them.
why do i have to think about the iphone southpark episode when i read this 
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:48 Xavv wrote:
Looks bad on Steelseries =\.
No blame can really be put on Grubby here because I doubt anybody would turn down the no doubt foolish amount of money that he was paid to do this.
You don't say no to money.
Not for something like this anyway.
Wheres the line? So promoting cheating for money is fine, what isn't?
Is it ok for grubby to stream his ladder games using this if he gets paid?
What if he uses it in an online tourney.
Cheating is cheating. You cant just draw arbitrary lines in the sand because he's famous...
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 10 2011 01:48 Slardar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 01:25 Jibba wrote:On June 10 2011 01:25 Chinchillin wrote:
Nice slanderous title The title is the exact situation. Regardless of whether Blizzard does it too, Grubby is promoting a way to cheat in SC2. The counterarguments about Blizzard are just a red herring (although as I said before, Blizzard's actions are dubious as well.) I'm sorry I had to log in from work just to debate this. How is Grubby promoting cheating in SC2 here Jibba, are you serious? Not only that, this title is horrendously misleading and slanderous, Grubby doesn't deserve that. He's not TELLING you to go macro-cheat, what I got from this is this; he's condoning the use of macros and showing you how to use them. Everyone has already pointed out Razer & Blizzard sell similar type of keyboards which can do the same thing, SteelSeries is just putting that in motion here by showing you how to go about using these functions present on the keyboards. I can best relate this with an analogy like this one: You are being taught how to use a Rifle. Does that mean the teacher is condoning the murder of human beings or animals? You can stretch that border of accusation, and if anything we can agree it's controversial; therefore this title should err on the side of neutrality/caution in the matter. Obviously the intent here isn't to promote "cheating", SteelSeries isn't an ignorant company to promote something illegal.
When you get taught how to use a rifle, you shoot at targets.
They dont show you a video of how to aim at someones head from a clocktower and pull the trigger
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On June 10 2011 01:45 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
Can you really use the word illegal here?
afaik breaking a TOS isn't illegal.
I'm pretty sure by illegal he means liable to be banned.
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I am disappointed in Steelseries. I hope we can get an official statement from them.
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EPT
