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Ganjamaster
Argentina475 Posts
Striderxxx, I agree to a certain extent that learning new tools is useful but the whole "society" they have formed and the glorification of their craft is over the top and greatly misrepresents the effectiveness of their techniques. With regards to my own experiences, I am not frustrated in the slightest. I have found success because I am in a certain situation in which it would be very hard not to get girls which is really beyond my control, but that is offtopic with regards to PUA´s. | ||
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insaneMicro
Germany761 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:03 Ganjamaster wrote: I actually have no experience with the PUA community whatsoever, but I have read the Neil Strauss book while in college because a friend spoke highly of it and I had a bunch of time on my hands. I have seen many people join these posses and follow their advice and they generally fail miserably. Striderxxx, I agree to a certain extent that learning new tools is useful but the whole "society" they have formed and the glorification of their craft is over the top and greatly misrepresents the effectiveness of their techniques. With regards to my own experiences, I am not frustrated in the slightest. I have found success because I am in a certain situation in which it would be very hard not to get girls which is really beyond my control, but that is offtopic with regards to PUA´s. :O Tell us your secrets man. Edit: Looking at your username and signature, I think I got this figured out. | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:47 BackHo wrote: Likewise with the comments after... I mean, there may be truth to what you are saying, that the PUA community is just a waste of time and filled with delinquents etc, however the tone in which you are attacking it almost makes it seem like it was something you tried but failed at, so now you're trying to make others see it your way too. I'm not saying that you did fail, but that is the perception you are putting forward with your attitudes. This is just my opinion of course. I've personally had good experiences with the community and got a lot out of it. A lot of the older members tend to be very supportive to newbies because they've been where they've been so understand that not everything is easy to 'pick-up' when you're just starting out. I've not been involved in the "community" other than being linked videos and checking out websites. Just looks to me like another way for "experts" to make money off of vulnerable people. I didn't say it was a "waste of time" or "filled with delinquents." There are plenty of good people who are insecure when it comes to their sexuality and social prowess. Convincing them that they can and should be good at meeting women on the street by learning their principles or methods makes these people a lot of money in book sales and seminars. If it's had a truly positive impact on your life, then great for you. I'm just stating that the community system is setup to generate income for the people writing books and running seminars. Almost all PUA in the business have the same story... "Look, I used to be a loser who played Magic: The Gathering or did X (interesting but socially unacceptable hobby) and now I hook up with hot/successful women!" It's like a less obvious infomercial for p90x with before/after pictures. So, when I say these things, it's not because I think the PUA community can't have a positive impact on people, but because that's not the purpose. The purpose is to convince people to pay them money. The article written by a "former gamer" is indicative of that... he's convinced that he's bettered himself by switching addictions. | ||
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RageBot
Israel1530 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:31 Ganjamaster wrote: The PUA community, in my opinion, is a place where socially inept men go to lick their wounds and obtain false hope from unscrupulous people who take advantage of their situation to make an easy dollar. With regards to women, you either have it or you dont. It is a basic instinct. You can learn new tools to use in your skill set, but in the end nothing will work if you do not have what it takes to overcome your own fears and limitations and use those tools in an effective manner. Can you explain to me what is "it"? | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
where the fuck are you going with this? sounds like you trying to discourage men from forming their own opinion about a community which seeks to help men get over their insecurities. | ||
Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:01 ShcShc wrote: The community is pretty misunderstood. PUA at its core works and it works very well. Its essentially a study of psychology (not just female psychology, but also male psychology). The problem with the PUA community is that a lot of people misuse it. Whether you're really good or really terrible with women, you should pick this up and learn the psychology. Why? Because if you understand the underlining messages of it, you can use it to make women (whether friends or girlfriends) happier. By happier, I mean really making them happier. People can use it for whatever. You want a same night lay? The thing can absolutely work and it does work. Same night lay' not your cup of tea? Then use the psychological undertones to bring a more romantic atmosphere to the relationship. Understand that you can be the "nice guy", but only if you do it in the RIGHT WAY. Understand what it means to alpha male without being that arrogant fake alpha-male (Hint: a good part is always to control your emotions and understand them). A lot of PUA things seem manipulative and sometimes downright stupid. At its core though, read and understand between the lines of it. I don't know anything about the community but I like this post  | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:11 TheDougler wrote: Quote from the playing video games article: The thing is that the community is all about bettering oneself. What is wrong with that? After reading the whole video game article, the whole PUA community basically seems like a bunch of people who can't attract a girl without being a try hard. I mean, if you need a self-esteem boost and you think the best way to get it is to study videos and articles and whatever else to pick up random girls, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's basically just a video game replacement. I'm sure PUA skills are useful for guys who just want to get laid, but if you just go out and do things you enjoy, and are moderately successful at the things you choose to do (not very challenging, imo), you'll find a girl who you can actually have a good relationship with. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:01 ShcShc wrote: Same night lay' not your cup of tea? Then use the psychological undertones to bring a more romantic atmosphere to the relationship. Understand that you can be the "nice guy", but only if you do it in the RIGHT WAY. Understand what it means to alpha male without being that arrogant fake alpha-male (Hint: a good part is always to control your emotions and understand them). Sounds like a bunch of PUA garbage to me. You don't need to be an "alpha male" or be a "nice guy but in the right way." Just act like a decent human being, be successful at something, be kind, and don't be a whiny, mopey bitch. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what PUAs mean by "nice guy," but as far as I can tell, being a nice guy is the nuts. Obviously you can't just go around being friendly and a doormat all the time, but that's common sense. But seriously, women love being treated well and respected. I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote: I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. You're happier when you're in a relationship with someone of higher social status. Women are happier when they're with a man that other women want to be with, men are happier when they're with a woman that other men want to be with. It doesn't really have much to do with self-esteem, although they're not completely unrelated. What he's saying by "be a nice guy in the right way" is that "nice guys" still have to show their mate that they've won the prize by being with them. I think, at least. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote: Sounds like a bunch of PUA garbage to me. You don't need to be an "alpha male" or be a "nice guy but in the right way." Just act like a decent human being, be successful at something, be kind, and don't be a whiny, mopey bitch. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what PUAs mean by "nice guy," but as far as I can tell, being a nice guy is the nuts. Obviously you can't just go around being friendly and a doormat all the time, but that's common sense. But seriously, women love being treated well and respected. I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. difference between long term relationship and short term one. girls go after different guys when pursuing both and expect you to change your behavior when you're with them for any significant amount of time. these books are decent for guys who have a hard time talking to girls or who have strong misconceptions about handling girls in general, since our media and schooling tends to encourage behaviors not so good for picking up girls. most guys who have been with a decent amount of women will tell you that 'game' exists, but most others will vehemently tell you it doesn't exist haha. i can't agree with everything they say/use in these books (i've read some it, its entertaining), but a lot of the concepts are good, some of the approaches are quite interesting (for example the magic tricks i think are quite silly, mystery's peacocking, etc...) | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:55 scorch- wrote: You're happier when you're in a relationship with someone of higher social status. Women are happier when they're with a man that other women want to be with, men are happier when they're with a woman that other men want to be with. It doesn't really have much to do with self-esteem, although they're not completely unrelated. Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:04 PJA wrote: Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? | ||
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:04 PJA wrote: Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. It's not about pretending to have good qualities. There are plenty of successful people who don't display their good qualities for whatever reason and they don't realize the people they care about might be happier if they did. This isn't PUA anything. This is basic human psychology and sociology. If the PUA community embraces it, good for them. | ||
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ShcShc
Canada912 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote: Sounds like a bunch of PUA garbage to me. You don't need to be an "alpha male" or be a "nice guy but in the right way." Just act like a decent human being, be successful at something, be kind, and don't be a whiny, mopey bitch. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what PUAs mean by "nice guy," but as far as I can tell, being a nice guy is the nuts. Obviously you can't just go around being friendly and a doormat all the time, but that's common sense. But seriously, women love being treated well and respected. I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. haha. It goes beyond that. You have to understand that in many many relationships, the lovy-dubby feeling of a new relationships fizzles out after approximately 7-9 months. Couples get into the comfort zone, gets bored and end up fighting a shit load of times. Even with guys who are great with women fall into that very unpleasant zone. Some PUA things I find to be rubbish, but a lot of it gives you a nice overview of human psychology. If you learn and memorize opening lines/pickup lines without understanding it, the PUA thing probably has a very limited use, but understanding the "why" would help you in other things (e.g: relationship management). And most importantly, its to understand YOUR own emotions. How it works and interacts. How to feel it. When you understand your emotions, you stop needing to brag about "holy crap, I have natural skills. Lol you guys suck", but rather to accept yourself and (very importantly) continuously challenging yourself. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:01 dreamsmasher wrote: difference between long term relationship and short term one. girls go after different guys when pursuing both and expect you to change your behavior when you're with them for any significant amount of time. these books are decent for guys who have a hard time talking to girls or who have strong misconceptions about handling girls in general, since our media and schooling tends to encourage behaviors not so good for picking up girls. most guys who have been with a decent amount of women will tell you that 'game' exists, but most others will vehemently tell you it doesn't exist haha. Well, like I said in my first post in this thread, if you just want to learn "the game" to pick up random girls, I'm sure it's fine. What do you mean by "our media and schooling tends to encourage behaviors not so good for picking up girls?" | ||
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ShcShc
Canada912 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:11 PJA wrote: Well, like I said in my first post in this thread, if you just want to learn "the game" to pick up random girls, I'm sure it's fine. What do you mean by "our media and schooling tends to encourage behaviors not so good for picking up girls?" I think he means "being too nice". e.g: Movies where things just happen magically and couples fall in love magically as if it was meant to be. Both women and men kind of fall into thinking that its going to be their destiny to meet their loved ones and that it will be "meant to be". And eventually it doesn't happen........ at least not as glamorous and romantic .......... | ||
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
EDIT: Also this thread should be about discussing PUA things, not arguing about if it's garbage or not. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
well i think the answer to your second question is obvious. western culture is pretty fucking chilvarous, naturally some guys assume that's he correct way to behave. its kind of like unwritten rules that everyone should have picked up on in public school but didn't. | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:05 dreamsmasher wrote: i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? :-( I'm one of the above to a large extent, lol. And it's weird how depressing that simple fact can be to an otherwise moderately successful individual. But reading and doing all this stuff doesn't change you as a person. I don't know how to explain it. It's like it's just built in to some people to be terrible with the opposite sex. I've tried some of the techniques and such from books and articles like these..and they work to some extent, it's basic psychology after all.....but it doesn't suddenly make you amazing with girls, your real self always comes back through with time, and really makes you seem like a phony. | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:05 dreamsmasher wrote: i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? Are these people successful at actually getting women to stay with them? And if so, are they really as unstable and unsuccessful as you think? There are many ways to be successful in life that don't involve making a lot of money or being really smart. | ||
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