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It cannot be defined as there is no discrete formula or combination of attributes that guarantees romantic and/or sexual success. The key is definitely to be confident enough to approach women and play to your individual strengths, whatever they may be, to maximize your chances of success.
It means to know yourself, know the kinds of girls that could potentially be attracted to you, which girls you are attracted to yourself. To identify the situations in which you can come in contact with these women and to capitalize on the situations that are presented to you, either by chance or through your own manipulations.
This might seem cold and calculated, but in reality it is not; it should happen naturally. An example of creating a situation favorable to you is inviting a group of girls (ideally including the one you want) to a pregame at your or a friends place. They will bring their friends (good for her as she will be at ease, good for your friends since they can get her friends) and from then on work on getting a good impression of yourself through.
But this requires self-confidence and a general understanding of what women want and indeed what each particular girl wants. A rich preppy girl will not have the same interests/tastes as a hipster girl, a hippy girl etc etc. Nobody can teach you these things, the most important thing is experience which by definition cannot be taught. I agree certain skills can be passed on, but the confidence to execute them must come from within. This initiative and confidence is "it" and no PUA in the world will give it to you if you do not make the conscious decision to go for it no matter the consequences.
On the ego thing, it is a generally accepted fact that possessing certain attributes will pretty much guarantee you will get laid (may not be who you want or for the reasons you want it to be, but you will get laid regardless). The most notable examples of this are money and fame.
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On June 03 2011 02:15 dreamsmasher wrote:
well i think the answer to your second question is obvious. western culture is pretty fucking chilvarous, naturally some guys assume that's he correct way to behave. its kind of like unwritten rules that everyone should have picked up on in public school but didn't.
Being chivalrous is the nuts.
In the early stages of a relationship girls love having doors opened for them, being walked to their door at the end of a date, and all the other little things your mom probably told you to do when you were first dating. And when you're actually living with someone, they'll probably appreciate when you pick up after yourself and just generally make little chivalrous gestures (e.g., asking if they'd like anything while you're fixing yourself a snack or whatever).
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On June 03 2011 02:18 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 02:05 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2011 02:04 PJA wrote:On June 03 2011 01:55 scorch- wrote:On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote:
I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. You're happier when you're in a relationship with someone of higher social status. Women are happier when they're with a man that other women want to be with, men are happier when they're with a woman that other men want to be with. It doesn't really have much to do with self-esteem, although they're not completely unrelated. Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? Are these people successful at actually getting women to stay with them? And if so, are they really as unstable and unsuccessful as you think? There are many ways to be successful in life that don't involve making a lot of money or being really smart.
that's not what i meant. most of the people i would describe there are my friends, so of course I think they're pretty cool people, otherwise they wouldn't be my friends. but what i'm saying is that a lot of guys end up thinking, 'oh that girl is too hot, why would she be interested in me?' and if you ask them the REASONS, they'll typically list wealth, looks, car (something stupid basically).
game is just a set of principles that make you successful with meeting women , how your manage the relationship is also a part of game i guess in some sense, but i think is substantially more complicated. i would say that someone who really understands that the behaviors you elicit while attracting someone change when you've been with that person for a few years will have no prpoblem, but the thing is that nice guy who has a good job and is funny but but not like act that way in front of women is never going to get into a relationship that he really wants to demonstrate his good qualities.
i also think there's misconceptions around 'treating the other sex like shit', which just isn't true, at least I don't find them to be true at all.
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On June 03 2011 02:18 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 02:05 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2011 02:04 PJA wrote:On June 03 2011 01:55 scorch- wrote:On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote:
I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. You're happier when you're in a relationship with someone of higher social status. Women are happier when they're with a man that other women want to be with, men are happier when they're with a woman that other men want to be with. It doesn't really have much to do with self-esteem, although they're not completely unrelated. Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? Are these people successful at actually getting women to stay with them? And if so, are they really as unstable and unsuccessful as you think? There are many ways to be successful in life that don't involve making a lot of money or being really smart.
PJA,
I understand where you are coming from though I feel that because you have been in 2 very long relationships (2 relationship in 6 years if I read that correctly), its a lot tougher to grasp and understand it. It feels a lot more bullshit specifically because you are in that safe-feeling long-term relationship. Its essentially your "secure blanket".
And unless if there is an abrupt/bitter end to the relationship where life tests your emotion, it would be harder to understand it. I wish you a very happy relationship, but without something that hits you hard in life, you're just not going to understand it.
Its kind of like the rich kid in a rich family saying: "Its so easy to make money in life, I don't get what the fuss is all about".
Just my 2 cents.
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Let's put it to you this way, to end all this short-term long-term relationship bullshit.
If you are exclusively looking for the "long-term girl", what are you doing to go find her? Do you just get on with your everyday life and expect her to just appear one day?
As for short-term, if you were to go out very often, meet lots of women, do stuff (be it a casual makeout, or sex), it can easily lead into a short-term relationship. If you then think she is worth long-term you can do it.
The big difference is that when going out often and meeting girls, you have a lot of girls to choose from to have a good relationship, be it long or short. It doesn't matter what you are going for, you want girls in anyway, you have to go out. That doesn't change
Really, having a good relationship comes full circle, you go out, meet girls, be good with women, then you have a good selection of women to choose from. you can choose to stay there or you can select one to be the long-term girl.
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On June 03 2011 02:25 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 02:15 dreamsmasher wrote:
well i think the answer to your second question is obvious. western culture is pretty fucking chilvarous, naturally some guys assume that's he correct way to behave. its kind of like unwritten rules that everyone should have picked up on in public school but didn't. Being chivalrous is the nuts. In the early stages of a relationship girls love having doors opened for them, being walked to their door at the end of a date, and all the other little things your mom probably told you to do when you were first dating. And when you're actually living with someone, they'll probably appreciate when you pick up after yourself and just generally make little chivalrous gestures (e.g., asking if they'd like anything while you're fixing yourself a snack or whatever).
depends on the girl. the last girl I was with paid for our first date, i don't think i ever opened the door for her, and actually left early because I was busy with something. still successful overall.
in fact i dont think i've ever paid for a first date, although several times dates involved very fun, but free activities.
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As one who writes a girl blog here on TL I feel I have to weigh in.
I first learned about the PUA community when I read about some Double Your Dating guy, along the same lines as Niel Strauss but far less 'predatory' in nature. I found that it helped me a little with girls and I carry that knowledge with me to this day, but I find that confidence in general is really all that one needs, and most of this PUA stuff is money-grabbing BS. (I never spent a dime on the Double Your Dating stuff either.)
Everyone can make a woman like them and likewise make them happy if they put the right circumstances together and don't screw it up for whatever reason. All you really need is to be a quality, confident individual with a generally good personality. Tactics are bullshit.
The PUA community feels very predatory, and in general I don't like it. I watch shows like Keys to the V.I.P. because I find it amusing, but the guys they pit against each other are always both douchebags with very obvious insecurities. It is really easy to just go up to a girl, introduce yourself, and ask them to dance. The PUA community makes it seem like there's some kind of science to it (there is, it's called Psychology), but very little calculation is involved - you're just saying hello.
If you really want to have few girl problems: learn to approach and talk to people in general, get a good job and dress well, and live a good and interesting life. The winner in these situations is always the most eligible bachelor, hands down. Women don't rate men on their 'dating skill.'
tl;dr Read into it but afterwards steer clear of the PUA community. Just say 'hello'!
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United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 01:01 ShcShc wrote:
Same night lay' not your cup of tea? Then use the psychological undertones to bring a more romantic atmosphere to the relationship. Understand that you can be the "nice guy", but only if you do it in the RIGHT WAY. Understand what it means to alpha male without being that arrogant fake alpha-male (Hint: a good part is always to control your emotions and understand them).
Sounds like a bunch of PUA garbage to me. You don't need to be an "alpha male" or be a "nice guy but in the right way." Just act like a decent human being, be successful at something, be kind, and don't be a whiny, mopey bitch. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what PUAs mean by "nice guy," but as far as I can tell, being a nice guy is the nuts. Obviously you can't just go around being friendly and a doormat all the time, but that's common sense. But seriously, women love being treated well and respected. I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues.
It's basically about acting and playing games. I'm sure you can be "successful" with it if those are your criteria for becoming a successful person, but it's a very shallow set of goals and there is no deeper meaning behind it. It's just about getting your dick wet. It's somehow less creepy when they just admit that. Hint: If you're that concerned about seeming like a compassionate guy, you're probably not one.
And the stuff about it being a study of psychology or using 'psychological undertones' is both hilarious and depressing. 'Psychology' is as misused in the PUA community as 'science' is in the Intelligent Design community. It's just methods of persuasion.
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On June 03 2011 02:33 TheGiz wrote:
As one who writes a girl blog here on TL I feel I have to weigh in.
I first learned about the PUA community when I read about some Double Your Dating guy, along the same lines as Niel Strauss but far less 'predatory' in nature. I found that it helped me a little with girls and I carry that knowledge with me to this day, but I find that confidence in general is really all that one needs, and most of this PUA stuff is money-grabbing BS. (I never spent a dime on the Double Your Dating stuff either.)
Everyone can make a woman like them and likewise make them happy if they put the right circumstances together and don't screw it up for whatever reason. All you really need is to be a quality, confident individual with a generally good personality. Tactics are bullshit.
The PUA community feels very predatory, and in general I don't like it. I watch shows like Keys to the V.I.P. because I find it amusing, but the guys they pit against each other are always both douchebags with very obvious insecurities. It is really easy to just go up to a girl, introduce yourself, and ask them to dance. The PUA community makes it seem like there's some kind of science to it (there is, it's called Psychology), but very little calculation is involved - you're just saying hello.
If you really want to have few girl problems: learn to approach and talk to people in general, get a good job and dress well, and live a good and interesting life. The winner in these situations is always the most eligible bachelor, hands down. Women don't rate men on their 'dating skill.'
tl;dr Read into it but afterwards steer clear of the PUA community. Just say 'hello'!
wat this man says is correct, although if you get the game you'll realize at some point that being a better person, and gaining stuff like interesting hobbies/skills/ shit that women like should be gotten in of itself, not just for getting laid.
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On June 03 2011 02:27 Elegance wrote:
Let's put it to you this way, to end all this short-term long-term relationship bullshit.
If you are exclusively looking for the "long-term girl", what are you doing to go find her? Do you just get on with your everyday life and expect her to just appear one day?
As for short-term, if you were to go out very often, meet lots of women, do stuff (be it a casual makeout, or sex), it can easily lead into a short-term relationship. If you then think she is worth long-term you can do it.
The big difference is that when going out often and meeting girls, you have a lot of girls to choose from to have a good relationship, be it long or short. It doesn't matter what you are going for, you want girls in anyway, you have to go out. That doesn't change
Really, having a good relationship comes full circle, you go out, meet girls, be good with women, then you have a good selection of women to choose from. you can choose to stay there or you can select one to be the long-term girl.
exactly this. i also agree with your endorsement of owen and rsd. the ONLY legit company out there. they were the first to drop all the bullshit gimmicks, tricks, and scripted lines and went 100% natural.
i try hard to avoid these type of arguments about the 'community'. it seems like the most deluded men are the most opinionated as well.
note - opinions based on dyd, mystery method, and/or the game are 6+ years out of date. none of that bs is relevant today. seriously. its actually amazing those books have remained popular and useful for this long
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Problem with 90% of guys is that they put women at a high value (and more importantly, higher value than themselves). That's why they can't get girls or become providers or orbiters. Whatever you wanna call them.
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On June 03 2011 02:26 ShcShc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 02:18 PJA wrote:On June 03 2011 02:05 dreamsmasher wrote:On June 03 2011 02:04 PJA wrote:On June 03 2011 01:55 scorch- wrote:On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote:
I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. You're happier when you're in a relationship with someone of higher social status. Women are happier when they're with a man that other women want to be with, men are happier when they're with a woman that other men want to be with. It doesn't really have much to do with self-esteem, although they're not completely unrelated. Not that I have a ton of experience with multiple women (been in two relationships over the last 6 years without much break in between), but this is exactly what I mean when I describe PUA bullshit. They have this silly theory about how women/men want to be with a partner who is desired by other people. News flash: it's because desire from other people is highly correlated with being successful/intelligent/a good person. You don't need to make it appear like other women like you if you actually have the good qualities that will make girls interested in you in the first place. i know plenty of guys who have a great job, are extremely smart, funny, yet aren't successful with women? in fact there's chicks who think that they're fucking weirdos at times, learning a thing or two about game would be very useful for them. on the opposite end i know guys who don't have those solid foundations who are successful with women, and aren't especially great looking either. why is that so? Are these people successful at actually getting women to stay with them? And if so, are they really as unstable and unsuccessful as you think? There are many ways to be successful in life that don't involve making a lot of money or being really smart. PJA, I understand where you are coming from though I feel that because you have been in 2 very long relationships (2 relationship in 6 years if I read that correctly), its a lot tougher to grasp and understand it. It feels a lot more bullshit specifically because you are in that safe-feeling long-term relationship. Its essentially your "secure blanket". And unless if there is an abrupt/bitter end to the relationship where life tests your emotion, it would be harder to understand it. I wish you a very happy relationship, but without something that hits you hard in life, you're just not going to understand it. Its kind of like the rich kid in a rich family saying: "Its so easy to make money in life, I don't get what the fuss is all about". Just my 2 cents.
Well look, I can understand that for some people it's difficult to find a girl, I just don't agree with a lot of the stuff I hear from people about PUA tactics.
Maybe there is a lot of deeper stuff in there, but any time you read an article about it, or listen to most of the people other than you in this thread, their advice is: Don't be a nice guy, don't act chivalrous, give backhanded compliments, etc.
I'm sure there's some deeper stuff to the whole PUA community, and that most of the stuff I've read is basically the PUA community marketting themselves, but almost everything I've read from "experts" is along the lines of treating women like objects, only giving compliments once you've properly insulted them, and basically just being a jackass.
If the PUA community isn't actually about these things, then fine, but that's the way they portray themselves, and if you've read posts by other people in this thread, you'd see that they actually believe that stuff.
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United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:35 Elegance wrote:
Problem with 90% of guys is that they put women at a high value (and more importantly, higher value than themselves). That's why they can't get girls or become providers or orbiters. Whatever you wanna call them.
What is the "problem" you're trying to address? That they don't get laid enough? Some people don't find any detriment to their life by putting other people at a high value.
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What I am going to say right now might sound pretty controversial, but whatever, to each his own.
It is my personal belief that prostitution solves many of the problems PUA´s want to tackle. You get a dude with a bunch of insecurities, you buy him a SMOKING HOT ESCORT who will bang the shit out of him. He will come out feeling like a boss, act like a boss and his confidence level will be boosted. He can then use this newfound confidence to attract girls without paying.
This might sound like it does not work, but I have seen it work personally a thousand times like a charm.
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On June 03 2011 02:40 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 02:35 Elegance wrote:
Problem with 90% of guys is that they put women at a high value (and more importantly, higher value than themselves). That's why they can't get girls or become providers or orbiters. Whatever you wanna call them. What is the "problem" you're trying to address? That they don't get laid enough? Some people don't find any detriment to their life by putting other people at a high value.
you seriously dont see a problem with feeling inferior and not good enough?
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On June 03 2011 02:35 dreamsmasher wrote:if you get the game you'll realize at some point that being a better person, and gaining stuff like interesting hobbies/skills/ shit that women like should be gotten in of itself, not just for getting laid.
are my hobbies not interesting enough for women? shit, better change my life to be more appealing.
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On June 03 2011 02:40 Ganjamaster wrote:
What I am going to say right now might sound pretty controversial, but whatever, to each his own.
It is my personal belief that prostitution solves many of the problems PUA´s want to tackle. You get a dude with a bunch of insecurities, you buy him a SMOKING HOT ESCORT who will bang the shit out of him. He will come out feeling like a boss, act like a boss and his confidence level will be boosted. He can then use this newfound confidence to attract girls without paying.
This might sound like it does not work, but I have seen it work personally a thousand times like a charm.
That's not controversial.
That's just stupid.
You kind of seem to have a "I like looking down on people" mentality.
"I've never really had a problem like this in my life, so I don't care, but I definitely know I have the natural skills.... oh and for those who have these problems, just get them a prostitute."
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Never heard of PUA, just read a bunch of articles about them and I have to say, I'm fine with them.
Yeah they sound kind of pathetic, and sexist. But they aren't doing anything illigal. If they can find enough people to do stuff liekt his then go ahead.
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Pick up artists are nothing but salesmen.
I fucking hate salesmen.
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i always felt like the underlying message of PUA was
-try
-if you fail, learn from your mistakes and try a different approach
-try again
all the magic and hypnosis and cute terms like "neg" is just the icing that makes you want to be part of the community because they create a sense of belonging with specific language.
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EPT
