| Forum Index > Closed |
|
mizU
United States12125 Posts
Or, how do they "officially" become a bonjwa? Is it fan determined? Is there some kind of bonjwa committee that gets together to determine bonjwas? How were the original 4 bonjwas titled as bonjwas? Does the community determine who becomes or qualifies as a bonjwa? It's indisputable that NaDa, oov, and sAviOr are bonjwas, but it seems controversial that BoxeR and even more controversial, Flash are bonjwas. How are we to know? Edit: Liquipedia defines Flash as a bonjwa, but how'd they get that? | ||
|
Enderbantoo
United States465 Posts
| ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
| ||
Fionn
United States23455 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:37 mizU wrote: I know there's been multiple discussions of what is a bonjwa or who is a bonjwa, but my question is who makes a bonjwa a bonjwa? Or, how do they "officially" become a bonjwa? Is it fan determined? Is there some kind of bonjwa committee that gets together to determine bonjwas? How were the original 4 bonjwas titled as bonjwas? Does the community determine who becomes or qualifies as a bonjwa? It's indisputable that NaDa, oov, and sAviOr are bonjwas, but it seems controversial that BoxeR and even more controversial, Flash are bonjwas. How are we to know? Edit: Liquipedia defines Flash as a bonjwa, but how'd they get that? The day after Flash beating Jaedong to win two Starleagues in a few day period, the Korean community, commentators and fans all basically declared him a bonjwa on all the major SC2 article sites. | ||
|
primarch359
United States119 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:42 endy wrote: Only sAviOr is the real bonjwa. Others were "called" bonjwa retrospectively. Can he still be considered that after the cheating scandal? | ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:42 endy wrote: Only sAviOr is the real bonjwa. Others were "called" bonjwa retrospectively. This is true, based on the essence of the word. Jaedong is already DONGJWA, no worries!  | ||
|
Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
If you really have to wonder if someone is bonjwa then he probly isn`t. | ||
|
Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
| ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
It means unrivaled for a consecutive period of time. The reason why there is so much controversy between whether or not Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, etc. attained such prestige is because they were always neck in neck. Flash went on a little spurt with consecutive victories. That is why the OGN commentator decided to lampoon him into the circle, but later an article by Fomos would declare him "God." It's a stupid device of a word. | ||
|
Gooey
United States944 Posts
Ender's method is a pretty good determinant. When you think of a bonjwa, it is something obvious. There is just one player, that, when they play a game, you just assume that they are the favorite to win and their opponent is going to need something special to have a chance at winning. Everyone will just... know... Say, sAviOr was playing, but you don't really care about zerg games at all, because you are a tvt and tvp player. But I mean... it's sAviOr playing... you just have to watch him play, because he just commands that type of attention. For the more current era, watching flash and jaedong was it. Everyone who watched broodwar last year knows that when flash and jaedong were playing, it was going to be the best possible game of starcraft period. Even if you didn't like them, who cares? It was fuckin flash v jaedong finals man! Not going to go into the Flash as bonjwa thing (he is called "God", so I'll leave it at that), but you get the picture... | ||
|
popzags
Poland604 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:42 endy wrote: Only sAviOr was the real bonjwa until he fucked up entire e-sports. Fixed it a little. I'll provide you a useful formula: X + Y = 0 - 3 Where: X = decent, well-rounded progamer who's like "OMG, should I retire? I'm playing against Y, that's the worst drawing I could possibly get, I'm fucked, my hands are literally trembling and my pants are full!" Y = probable Bonjwa. 0 - 3 = the result of Bo5 between X and Y. | ||
|
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:45 primarch359 wrote: Can he still be considered that after the cheating scandal? Yes ofc. Regardless of what he did later in his career he was still just as dominant as one can be during his prime. | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
| ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:58 disciple wrote: you must be born in November hah! | ||
|
Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:58 disciple wrote: you must be born in November You win 3/4 MSLs and then you win an OSL. | ||
|
mizU
United States12125 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:58 disciple wrote: you must be born in November I'm not asking what criteria! I'm asking who titles a bonjwa a bonjwa? Does the TL staff decide who's a bonjwa and who's not? (Or who isn't bonjwa thread mention worthy?) :o | ||
|
Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:45 primarch359 wrote: Can he still be considered that after the cheating scandal? Ver already said this on God of the Battlefied, and I can't find better words than him On May 25 2011 05:36 Ver wrote: Though Savior seriously undermined the institution of e-Sports through his despicable crimes, we must be able to separate his faults as a human being from his accomplishments as a player. Though he will rightfully never play another game of professional Brood War, he left a significant, lasting mark on the way the game is played today. | ||
|
RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:58 disciple wrote: you must be born in November Well damn it I was born in December and was about to go on a 150-0 pro kill in Korea....I'm contacting my attorney on this!!  JK But really I think its just a title to someone who does unbelievably good and amazes people with upsets,etc. That's just my op obviously on the matter but I think the entire title is opinion since there can be no official version of it, and even if there could be who in the world would have the true authority to make someone have such a title. Unless of course there could be like the "original" bonjwa and then only he could say someone else later on could also be granted the title. Which came first the bonjwa or the bonjwa title? (chicken and egg parody if my joke ends up looking that bad LOL) | ||
|
disciple
9070 Posts
On May 30 2011 21:03 mizU wrote: I'm not asking what criteria! I'm asking who titles a bonjwa a bonjwa? Does the TL staff decide who's a bonjwa and who's not? (Or who isn't bonjwa thread mention worthy?) :o TL cant choose between Megan Fox and Charlize Theron. Bonjwa stuff was up to the koreans to decide. But seriously, having 3+ titles and being born in November was always enough to be called a bonjwa. Boxer is the only exception having birthday in September, but he is more of a honorary bonjwa anyways. The only guy in recent years that really qualifies to the criteria above is Bisu (yep, born in November). So fuck you, Mind | ||
|
konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:45 primarch359 wrote: Can he still be considered that after the cheating scandal? yes | ||
|
Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
I remember a period where Jaedong was kind of vaguely a Maybe Bonjwa (with him an Flash vying for it), but the eventual determination was "no". Were Jaedong and Flash to both dominate everyone but each other, neither would be a Bonjwa. This was happening for a while, and Flash pulled ahead right around the time I got into Starcraft. Though, I have a pet theory that all five Bonjwas are actually the same person, and Boxer just regenerated into Nada, Doctor Who style. | ||
|
Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
Look at his achievements and domination last year. Does it looks easy? He is a certified bonjwa. To me, a person is called bonjwa when commentators and fans says his bonjwa and the player has a aura of dominance and achievements to back it up. Boxer, Nada, Oov, Savior and Flash has it. Jaedong has it as well, though, he dont seem so invincible like Flash. | ||
|
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:42 endy wrote: Only sAviOr is the real bonjwa. Others were "called" bonjwa retrospectively. I concur. Even after the match fixing scandal, the influence and respect he had, emphasis on had, is undeniable. The match fixing for me is a different story. | ||
|
Harmonious
179 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:53 Gooey wrote: Controversial that BoxeR is considered a bonjwa!?! Girl you crazy. He is SlayerS_Boxer, the Emperor. Any bonjwa takes second place. | ||
|
Gooey
United States944 Posts
On May 30 2011 21:58 Harmonious wrote: He is SlayerS_Boxer, the Emperor. Any bonjwa takes second place. Oh absolutely. Can't touch the Emperor. Bonjwa, Schmonjwa | ||
|
alypse
2771 Posts
| ||
|
jpak
United States5045 Posts
For me, no matter how much I hate Flash (okay, not as much as bisu, but Movie  ) I know that I watched him become bonjwa in 2010. | ||
|
mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
As to what determines who is bonjwa or not, to me its more a feeling rather than some stats and titles. And yeah, only boxer, nada, oov and savoir had that feeling around them. | ||
|
gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
| ||
|
Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
| ||
|
SimonB
United States1088 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:42 endy wrote: Only sAviOr is the real bonjwa. Others were "called" bonjwa retrospectively. And yet, he is the weakest of all of them, including at least 1 person who isn't called a bonjwa. | ||
|
antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On May 30 2011 21:56 Black[CAT] wrote: Why does it seems that Flash is always doubted as a 본좌? Flash cant be controversial as bonjwa. Look at his achievements and domination last year. Does it looks easy? He is a certified bonjwa. To me, a person is called bonjwa when commentators and fans says his bonjwa and the player has a aura of dominance and achievements to back it up. Boxer, Nada, Oov, Savior and Flash has it. Jaedong has it as well, though, he dont seem so invincible like Flash. The only ehing that keeps flash away from bonjwa status for some people is Bisu and Jaedong.If they weren't around, i'm pretty sure flash would be nominated a undisputed Bonjwa a long time ago. | ||
|
SimonB
United States1088 Posts
If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. | ||
|
FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
On May 30 2011 22:20 alypse wrote: Determined largely by the Korean community... and maybe partly by commentators. When Flash defeated Jaedong at the end of Korea Air OSL 2, the commentators claimed that he is the bonjwa of this era. Don't forget that he also won WCG, that kind of cemented things after the dual Starleague win. | ||
|
Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:37 SimonB wrote: And yet, he is the weakest of all of them, including at least 1 person who isn't called a bonjwa. Lmfao ya I imagine Boxer, Nada and Oov thought the same thing while MJY was raping them. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
| ||
|
Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote: I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point. If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers on very hard zerg maps. alot of what happens in zerg play nowadays came from savior flash is an awesome player, but please dont shit on the greatness that was savior because hes done alot of impressive things, and he will always be the only bonjwa for me | ||
|
SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
Well, for me, a bonjwa is someone who is just dominating left and right. The term was first coined for Savior and then the others (Boxer, Oov, NaDa) were just called bonjwa's in retrospect. | ||
|
FlaShFTW
United States10271 Posts
iloveoov: Let's face it, he's pretty much there. He was unrivaled until sAviOr came along and crushed his TvZ builds. NaDa: Don't even question this one. 3 OSL? 3 MSL? Not a bonjwa? I'll eat my own heart. sAviOr: Again, don't even question this one. So what if he only won 1 OSL? He was UNSTOPPABLE. The arrogance he showed. The shape that he left his victims in the mud... Yes the cheating scandal in its own right lost him many fans... However, that was later in his career, not in his prime. FlaSh: Really? 3 OSL? 2 MSL (soon to be 3 after he roflstomps Hydra AND ZerO). This guy has been to so many finals. Jaedong: He's getting there. But his winnings have been over a period of time. Think about it. He first won in 2007... then the next year won again... then next year won a couple more... yeah, you could say he is bonjwa in 2009, yet, i think the Nate MSL controversy really put a hole in his resume there. Had he won "fair and square", probs a bonjwa. But so far, hes in a slump. | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote: I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point. If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps. All of Flash's MSL wins had a few nice maps(Odd Eye hi) helping him out. Flash, on the other hand, complained about Bloody Ridge being impossible. Savior certainly looked more invincible during his time. I certainly do have my reasons for questioning Flash's bonjwa status, but Savior was more impressive whether or not he is. | ||
|
InTheRainBOw
Argentina27 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote: I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point. If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. Ma Bonjwa dominated the later called bonjwas aswell, and at that time pros had alot more rivalry, it wasnt just JD and flash on the top, no one knows how flash/JD would have done at that time where things on SC were still being discovered... sAviOr created a style, an era, the one that taught and revolutionized raising the gamestyle of the zerg race to the top. | ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:56 Antoine wrote: i am the decisionator. Ahhh you beat me to it! Anyway, guys what the OP is asking for is NOT who is bonjwa but who determines who is bonjwa. I dunno about that, but I know who determines who is DONGJWA! \m/ | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On May 31 2011 00:25 GG.NoRe wrote: Ahhh you beat me to it! Anyway, guys what the OP is asking for is NOT who is bonjwa but who determines who is bonjwa. I dunno about that, but I know who determines who is DONGJWA! \m/ I'm afraid there's a new Dong in town, and his name is Shin Dong Won. + Show Spoiler + Nah, Jaedong forever. | ||
|
Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps. Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining. Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only? Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player. | ||
|
Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
| ||
|
Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
| ||
|
supernovamaniac
United States3047 Posts
On May 31 2011 00:44 Yodo wrote: Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining. Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only? Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player. Longinus II TvZ: 80-55 (59.3%) [ Games ] ZvP: 40-35 (53.3%) [ Games ] PvT: 51-35 (59.3%) [ Games ] Longinus TvZ: 30-14 (68.2%) [ Games ] ZvP: 21-19 (52.5%) [ Games ] PvT: 23-18 (56.1%) [ Games ] These two maps were made to make ZvP more balanced. Problem was, TvZ became Zerg's grave. However, Savior won many, if not most of his TvZs on Longinus so they made Longinus II to nerf Savior. That never happened too; many Zergs were destroyed on this map. Few other examples include Reverse Temple, and few other maps from that time. MSL made maps to KILL Zerg overall, especially Savior after he started dominating (remember: MSL had (I think) 5 straight Zerg champions). | ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 31 2011 00:56 Elroi wrote: A bonjwa is anyone who has more than three titles, who has been #1 in kespa more than a year and who's name doesn't start with Jae. That's obvious. LOL i know exactly what you mean. Jaedong is beyond all them. He is DONGJWA! On May 31 2011 01:07 supernovamaniac wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2011 00:44 Yodo wrote: Oh, cmon, don't start this ridiculous "map imba" whining. Flash is fairly accomplished player. Or do you think he never won on unfavored maps? and hit 75% win-rate playing odd eye only? Statistically Flash is way ahead of any other scbw player. Longinus II TvZ: 80-55 (59.3%) [ Games ] ZvP: 40-35 (53.3%) [ Games ] PvT: 51-35 (59.3%) [ Games ] Longinus TvZ: 30-14 (68.2%) [ Games ] ZvP: 21-19 (52.5%) [ Games ] PvT: 23-18 (56.1%) [ Games ] These two maps were made to make ZvP more balanced. Problem was, TvZ became Zerg's grave. However, Savior won many, if not most of his TvZs on Longinus so they made Longinus II to nerf Savior. That never happened too; many Zergs were destroyed on this map. Few other examples include Reverse Temple, and few other maps from that time. MSL made maps to KILL Zerg overall, especially Savior after he started dominating (remember: MSL had (I think) 5 straight Zerg champions). So thats why JD is having difficulties getting his golden badge. hhmmnnnnnn... | ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
Let's ask the most established credible dictionary: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/isFkP.jpg) | ||
|
Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
its totally legit, those maps were terrible for zergs You miss the point. ALL players sooner or later play on unfavored maps. And all good players are able to overcome maps. Nothing new here. So, yes, it is whining, because it is attempt to bring "map imba" argument as the most decisive factor in the game. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:22 GG.NoRe wrote: What is DONGJWA? Let's ask the most established credible dictionary: Hahaha! But isn't this irrelevant to the discussion? A bonjwa is truly someone who showed dominance over a certain period of time. Although Flash has shown said dominance(hence claiming the title Bonjwa)he has never dominated like Savior. | ||
|
Gooey
United States944 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:22 GG.NoRe wrote: What is DONGJWA? Let's ask the most established credible dictionary: + Show Spoiler + We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it. | ||
|
Craton
United States17274 Posts
On May 30 2011 20:37 mizU wrote: Edit: Liquipedia defines Flash as a bonjwa, but how'd they get that? They arbitrarily decided it. It's a joke and disgusting that Flash is "bonjwa" while Jaedong isn't, despite equal or better performance for a longer period. | ||
|
4vvhiplash7
South Africa392 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote: We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it. LOL Thanks for saying what we are all thinking... | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:26 Yodo wrote: You miss the point. ALL players sooner or later play on unfavored maps. And all good players are able to overcome maps. Nothing new here. So, yes, it is whining, because it is attempt to bring "map imba" argument as the most decisive factor in the game. You're also missing the point. Savior managed to consistently overcome bad maps, while Flash did not. Flash's streak had its fair share of terran-favored maps. In this case, map imba is a completely reasonable discussion. Savior overcame impossible maps, while Flash simply said how impossible they were. | ||
|
GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote: We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it. Those were all LR threads where JD was relevant and specific JAEDONG threads btw. Cite one thread where I wrote about JD off topic and I'll give you a pass for 2 to the ABC MSL Finals. I'll even pay for your ticket to Korea. Heck bring your entire family and dogs. Cite it now, or admit you are merely promoting unfounded ignorance. There can never be too much Love. Hate, on the other hand..... | ||
|
whiterabb1t
Belgium681 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:38 4vvhiplash7 wrote: LOL Thanks for saying what we are all thinking...LOL. Check the LR threads as well. For every 1 KT fan that bags on GG.NoRe, 10 more proclaim dongling love for him. I really don't understand why people have to hate on a user who only means well. GG.NoRe, lol you're so magnetic. hahaha OT, only Savior is Bonjwa. And yes, he did so on maps he were supposed to lose | ||
|
ibreakurface
United States664 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:58 Legatus Lanius wrote: savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers on very hard zerg maps. alot of what happens in zerg play nowadays came from savior flash is an awesome player, but please dont shit on the greatness that was savior because hes done alot of impressive things, and he will always be the only bonjwa for me .... How can he be the only bonjwa... Nada DESTROYED back in his day. savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers Flash won consistent titles at a time and he did it against top class terran killers. | ||
|
Sovetsky Soyuz
Russian Federation905 Posts
On May 31 2011 01:36 Gooey wrote: We get it, you are the biggest living jaedong fan in the world. Every time I look at a thread in the BW section lately, you are on there rambling about jaedong off topic in some form, or making new threads to worship him. That's fine and all, but god damn. Calm down. Going a little overboard with it. Oh no, here we go again. Why do some people love to derail discussions. On May 31 2011 01:48 ibreakurface wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On May 30 2011 23:58 Legatus Lanius wrote: savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers on very hard zerg maps. alot of what happens in zerg play nowadays came from savior flash is an awesome player, but please dont shit on the greatness that was savior because hes done alot of impressive things, and he will always be the only bonjwa for me .... How can he be the only bonjwa... Nada DESTROYED back in his day. savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers Flash won consistent titles at a time and he did it against top class terran killers. Who are these so called terran killers? Ssak? Classic? Like the ID btw | ||
|
Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
Savior overcame impossible maps, while Flash simply said how impossible they were. Wrongo =) Savior complains about maps too (ofc nobody can be compared with Bisu regarding this skill) and yes, Flash wins on unfavored maps a lot of times. Calm down man, we all know how you displeased with Flash existence, no need to push it so hard. Just remember "map imba" argument - is always whining. | ||
|
udgnim
United States8024 Posts
since 8/28/09, he's been 200-58 with a 77.52 winning percentage http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=424&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2009&from_month=8&from_day=28&to_year=2011&to_month=5&to_day=23&action=Update if you want to compare Jaedong and Bisu over the same time frame here it is Jaedong, 174-82, 67.97% http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=211&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2009&from_month=8&from_day=28&to_year=2011&to_month=5&to_day=26&action=Update Bisu, 120-59, 67.04% http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=125&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2009&from_month=8&from_day=28&to_year=2011&to_month=5&to_day=21&action=Update | ||
|
Cheeseburgered
United States716 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:47 SimonB wrote: I don't care about the Bonjwa title if Savior defined it. Flash has already completely obliterated Savior's career accomplishments in every way. He, along with Nada, Oov, and Jaedong are well ahead of Savior at this point. If Savior is Bonjwa, they're beyond, and significantly so. Winning against the best TvZ players in the world (AKA never losing a bo3/bo5 to them), destroying every Protoss he came across, rarely losing on RT and Longinus which two of the most unbalanced maps ever for zerg and making 5 straight MSL finals makes them way ahead of him? some people are hard to please savior won consistent titles at a time when zerg werent doing so great, and he did it against top class zerg killers The only Terran killer he won against in 2010 in SL's that I would consider top class is Jaedong since he lost to effort. He did go 3-2 against Fantasy if you consider him top class TvT. | ||
|
SimonB
United States1088 Posts
On May 31 2011 00:20 Lightwip wrote: Savior definitely did way more than Flash. You may say Savior had less titles, but he was consistently unbeatable on the most ridiculous of maps. All of Flash's MSL wins had a few nice maps(Odd Eye hi) helping him out. Flash, on the other hand, complained about Bloody Ridge being impossible. Savior certainly looked more invincible during his time. I certainly do have my reasons for questioning Flash's bonjwa status, but Savior was more impressive whether or not he is. Whether it be titles, ELO, winning percentage (overall and through various intervals of the peak), Nada, oov, Jaedong, and Flash are just so objectively better, but apparently counteracting all of that is this issue of maps, which has been grossly overstated with so many small samples. It cuts both ways too. Savior's greatest strength was probably his ZvP over his ZvT. What do you guys think some of those maps were like for PvZ? Another idea that seems to be passed off as truth is his glorified competition, where apparently guys like Hwasin, Iris, and Casy are suddenly remembered as these incredible unbeatable terrans. Beyond being inferior by every single measure, one of the most important things that's often forgotten: Savior had a very light workload compared to those who dominated before and those who dominated after. He was knocked out of the OSL season after season (oh, but that doesn't count against his so-called ultimate dominance), and he did not play as many proleague games, nor was he a fraction of the kind of proleague monsters that Flash and Jaedong have consistently been. Savior was able prepare almost exclusively for MSLs. I really don't think this is given enough attention; especially since Flash and Jaedong have constantly had to battle not only their opponents, but their schedules in. Earlier in Flash's career, this really affected him. Even when he wasn't winning titles, he was always one of the best, putting up percentages that put Savior to shame, but he'd usually get halfway into the OSL and MSL before flaming out of both at the same time because of overwork. It's quite the testament that he managed to overcome that last year and play three consecutive double finals, which must be without a shadow of a doubt, considered the greatest peak of any player. | ||
|
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
No single player has ever been unbeatable. No single player has ever been truly uncontested. The Bonjwas just make most everyone think there's something unfair about the game when they play, and that's about it. There's no specific requirements beyond that. | ||
|
chocorush
694 Posts
While Jaedong has always been extremely strong, he never really pulled that far ahead of everyone else. After Flash's amazing 2010 run of 6 consecutive starleague finals, it looked like he did pull that far ahead, but perhaps it was premature to call him bonjwa. | ||
|
flashimba
225 Posts
There can be more than one bonjwa, but only one God. | ||
|
Sovetsky Soyuz
Russian Federation905 Posts
On May 31 2011 02:34 flashimba wrote: There is no reason to debate whether Flash is a bonjwa or not. Flash created the God line. There can be more than one bonjwa, but only one God. LOL. what is this. ID = flashimba post = flash fanboyism team = khan (so not to be too obvious) created = may 31, 2011 posts = 1 Why did you have to hide behind a new account to get your fanboy fix? Insecure about your opinion? Look at JD fanboys, they're bashed left and right but they are proud. You are doing Flash the opposite because of this. Are you ashamed to be a Flash fan? Come out and reveal yourself. | ||
|
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
| ||
|
disciple
9070 Posts
| ||
| ||
|
|
OSC
Shameless vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Percival
Krystianer vs TBD
Cure vs SHIN
PiGosaur Monday
The PondCast
OSC
Big Brain Bouts
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
BSL 21
Wardi Open
Monday Night Weeklies
|
|
|
EPT
