EPTPvP is going to change in the next Patch ! - Page 7
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WoKKeLs
Netherlands65 Posts
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:12 sleepingdog wrote: This would make by far the most sense, therefore I doubt it will be implemented.  Because if they wanted to make THIS, they could've made it a long time ago...since it's so astonishingly simple. Units warped above forcefields would be free kills and 4 gate would be effectively dead. And the overall macro-balance wouldn't have to be touched in the slightest. this is such a beautiful and yet plain solution. a longer warp-in time is fair and wouldn't mess up stuff in any way. hope they take this solution into account. don't like the warp-gate tech path movement as it would make a lot of Ps go twilight, which would mean a lot less variety of the distinct protoss tech. less stargates and less robos. | ||
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
The root of the problem with 4 gate is that it is very hard to stop them getting into your base before your tech hits.. And that is because you can put a pylon and then warp onto the ramp then use that to get vision above ramp and keep warping in. Make it so a force field actually blocks the ramp like every other match up and stops anything from being warped in and then sentrys can just keep forcefielding the ramp until theres a few immortals/ collosus / dts out... | ||
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BlehBleh
United States28 Posts
Whatever they're fix is I'm happy to see they're trying :D | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:35 naggerNZ wrote: I think that's quite a clever idea, because it means that attackers will be forced to suffer whatever rush distance to their opponents base, or use warpgate and have your opponent (the defender) produce units at a higher rate. Again, it's a neat idea, but we have no ideas what the exact numbers are. Neither does Blizz yet, I'd imagine. All we know is that they're thinking of making Warp Gate take longer to research, and make gateways a bit better so this isn't crippling. I would LIKE if there was a reason to stay on Gateways, but we have no reason to believe gateways will be better than Warp gates in any way at this time. But if Blizz is nerfing Warpgate (this post) and Colossus (Patch 1.3 situation report), and don't want to make a lot of changes at once (so buffing carriers will be saved for a later patch).... Man, if Protoss thought 1.3 was a nerf, I can't goddamn WAIT for the SOTG after 1.4 comes out. | ||
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:39 WoKKeLs wrote: 2gate Zlot rush coming back vs zerg? haha thats gonna get odd seeing a imbalance changing it and changing it back to change something in a mirror matchup? 2 Gate Zealot was never really an Imbalance. It was a counter to Fast Expansions ... on Steppes. But we all know, that Steppes is one of the worst maps possible. On big maps there is no reason to have a slower build time on Zealots. And we all know, big maps are the good ones. Actually i think it will help Zerg quite a lot. Maybe you get Proxy-gated more often, but that should be no problem if you scout it. If you don't scout it, well, thats the same with every cheese. But it will change 2 things: Easier to scout, if Protoss is going aggressive or defensive. And weakening the all-in will get Zerg more opportunities. So you have less guessing but more scouting. | ||
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
It might be nice for pvp though. | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
With the 4gate being tinkered with, lesser build time for zealots won't be a problem. Just gotta scout for proxy gates more often, which is a better trade off for me than having to scout for a sentry zealot 4gate, stalker zealot 4gate or regular 4gate and having to react very specifically to each and every one of them. We might see entertaining PvP's, GASP! | ||
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gnutz
Germany666 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:49 Vapaach wrote: The way I feel about this is that now marine/scv all-in will become completely unstoppable. (it is highly dependent on getting the warp gate research in time) It might be nice for pvp though. If you think, they change the build times in the way, that you have the same amount of units without warpgates what you had before with warpgates (what i think they should do), then it should be no problem. For making PvP more entertaining, they also only need to Colossi ... wait, thats what they want to do for the other matchups. Seems like a fix to PvP will be a fix to all MUs. | ||
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Grampz
United States2147 Posts
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Killcycle
United States170 Posts
On April 22 2011 17:47 surraymb wrote: I think making build times shorter for gatways or longer for warpgates is a good idea. Warpgates already give you the awesomeness of letting you warp in units anywhere, so there's nothing wrong with having a tradeoff of producing slower than gateways. Basically that could lead to a defender's advantage where the defender has gateways that produce more quickly while the attacker uses warpgates to offset the distance but can't produce as quickly, leading to a defender with the equal amount of gates (but as gateways without warpgate) having an advantage. I'd like to see a 3 gateway defending player being on equal ground with a 4 warpgate attacking player. That way you would switch to warpgates only when on the offensive to reinforce while switching to gateways when on the defensive when you need the units in your base and not on the other end of the map. I only offrace as toss, but that would definitely be an interesting dynamic to gateway-heavy playstyles, and something that would make games much more fun to watch. Though as mentioned in some of the comments, the warp gate instant-warp in for defensive purposes has always been potentially crucial in any game; that might also increase motivation for scouting, so that the Protoss can switch their gates to warpgates in preparation for an incoming attack so that they can squeeze in an extra round of units on the fly. (which is why I'm not a fan of lengthening unit build time when being warped in and compensating with a longer cooldown). It's all extremely speculative, but if nothing else I'm glad Blizzard seems interested in the topic. (and they should be!); PvP has always been the most boring match-up unless someone does something tricky, but 4gate shuts down most tricky stuff :/ I can't decide whether that change would alter the 4gate vs 4gate enough to encourage other playstyles again in PvP, but at any rate it sounds like a much-needed step in the right direction. Very interested in the "other changes" they're looking into. In the end, just gotta wait til' they put it up on the test server! | ||
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:50 gnutz wrote: If you think, they change the build times in the way, that you have the same amount of units without warpgates what you had before with warpgates (what i think they should do), then it should be no problem. I have problems seeing how I could have 7 warpgate units at 6:00 without WG tech.. I think the real solution would be just not being able to warp units on a ramp. Four gate problem solved. Also, this would make proxy gates more effective, which I find a bit unnerving. | ||
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
We have been looking into the 4gate issue and our designers have played with a lot of different fixes and changes, even those that were not strictly numbers related. While strong, 4gate is a lesser problem in other matchups, but we recognize that PvP is a different story. Has nobody spotted a potentially huge part of this statement...? "even those that were not strictly numbers related" ... I can only really think of one interpretation of this - that they've at least looked at moving warpgate technology further up the the tech tree. All the other changes you're talking about are changes to warp/build time numbers. Although the rest of the post alludes to the fact that they've moved away from that and towards tweaking times... This all still excites me for the prospect of a major warpgate change come HotS, where they could get away with making a wholesale change like this. WG just doesn't belong at tier 1.5 imho, it's too powerful . | ||
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Darksoldierr
Hungary2013 Posts
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
Don't they watch any tournaments -_- | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On April 22 2011 17:46 Mailing wrote: Suggested this weeks ago and people said it was a stupid idea =/ Gateways already SHOULD make units faster than warpgates. Warpgates should make units SLOWER because it has instant reinforcements. This would allow protoss to even play a macro gateway style where they never even get warpgates because they build units faster off gateways and can defend easier, but cannot be super aggressive. I agree this makes sense. It's going to be harder to be aggressive when your units are warped in at your base instead of in your opponent's base. An elegant solution to nerf Protoss early aggression without nerfing their early game. It sounds like a really good change. : ) | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On April 22 2011 18:54 Mercury- wrote: 4gate no problem in other matchups what? Don't they watch any tournaments -_- "While strong, 4gate is a lesser problem in other matchups, but we recognize that PvP is a different story" Seriously dude, two paragraphs. Read it | ||
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CrumpetGuvnor
Australia302 Posts
As a protoss player I always thought that the way to change pvp and to make Protoss more interesting in other matchups was to make warp in areas similar to creep spread. You would build a unit from the nexus who would plant creep tumors (toss equivalent) and then you would have to spread it and it would have a similar cooldown to creep tumors. This way Protoss would have to earn the right over a period of time to negate the defenders advantage. Also on larger maps we would see more warp prism usage. Either that or make warp in pylons cost 300 minerals and the standard pylons cost 100 and the standard pylons would be able to warp in within a certain radius of the nexus say the size of a large base. That way killing the warp in pylon would have a significant impact as they wouldn't have another one nearby. You could then have an upgrade a bit later making all pylons warp in pylons | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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