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On April 22 2011 18:18 Apolo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 18:14 sicarii wrote:
I think the best fix ive heard was by -orb- who said units should warp in slower depending on the distance from a friendly nexus... just a half second every 50 range or so could be a huge buff to defenders advantage in equal footing battles. I dont see this affecting anything other than a 4 gate rush in a PvP if anyone has a feasible scenario to argue against that statement plaease respond cause i think the fix -orb- suggested is perfect. Now lets get blizzard to hear it? So if i make a proxy nexus, it will warp in faster :O The problem with that is that it would get very complicated to time attacks. A slight distance change would alter the warp in times, and i would many times be on the dark about how much time it will warp in in that location. I think it would overcomplicate the matter. I liked the idea of gateways actually making units faster than warpgates. Let's say you are attacking, you get warpgates. Defending? Change back to gateways. Of course not all defenses would be equal like drops, or any other that requires warp in in a specific place, but for early all ins, where the push comes from one direction it could be a good change.
Is a proxy nexus worth a second of warp in time? go for it...the only problem with switching back and forth is say u cycle a round of units then immediately warp them to warp gates... would u not get 2 rounds of units in 1.25ish (maybe less?) amount of time 2 rounds of units would be? sounds way too easy to defend for toss and i play toss -_-
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This sound like a pretty cool change.
Warpgates are way overused right now I think, so having units build faster with gateway is going to be fun, though isn't this going to affect other matches a little, say a strong 2 gateway push?
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I don't really think this is needed. 4 gate is already defendable by non-4 gate builds in pvp.
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On April 22 2011 18:17 inFeZa wrote:
I'm sorry but i remember blizzard saying they want to make minor adjusments each patch and see how the community and game develops by itself. HOW Is it that adjusting game mechanics, removing CRUCIAL upgrades, rather than giving units say +1 range or some 'minor' change they said they would.
Btw, they already nerfed the zealot build time, so they're actually gonna go BACK on their change!? wtf?
1. the +1 range buff to roaches was the biggest change since release. Not at all minor.
2. nothing anywhere has mentioned even the possibility of removing warpgates, just nerfing the build time a little.
3. the metagame is different from when they nerfed zealot build time. On steps of war or blistering sands, 2-gate zealot was stupidly powerful. On Tal'Darim or Shakuras plateau it will not be.
4. Blizzard shouldn't be afraid on going back on a change if its a good idea.
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On April 22 2011 17:55 Zzoram wrote:
why not just make warpgate require a twilight council?
Because then they would have to change something about the DT. The DT rush comes out too late as it is, its just gonna be more useless
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On April 22 2011 17:55 Zzoram wrote:
why not just make warpgate require a twilight council?
I really like this idea. Makes it just out of early game reach and gives protoss more incentive to get to templar tech again. More people should consider this.
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On April 22 2011 18:13 GinNtoniC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:46 Mailing wrote:
Suggested this weeks ago and people said it was a stupid idea =/
Gateways already SHOULD make units faster than warpgates.
Warpgates should make units SLOWER because it has instant reinforcements. This would allow protoss to even play a macro gateway style where they never even get warpgates because they build units faster off gateways and can defend easier, but cannot be super aggressive. Forgive my old, withered brood war heart, but I too like this idea a lot. Given that you still can turn gateways into warpgates and back again, gives you the option of changing around. It adds a choice of style and a tactical dimension of when to use gateways and when to convert them into warpgates for forward/offensive reinforcement.
Whilst I am half inclined to agree with these posts, the idea of a 5/6 gateway push with even more units is pretty intimidating. It would be interesting to see how such a change would affect the game on the PTR.
I must say as well that giving Tier 1 units faster build times could also lend itself to a forcefield nerf in the future, (if forcefields remain a problem). Forcefield is often used as a panic device in the early game when there aren't enough Protoss units to defend. Obviously reducing T1 build times could go some way to solving this problem.
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Won't change anything on (no ramp) maps. The attack will simply come later.
The Warpgate mechanic has to be changed in order to (save) the matchup.
Like making the warp in, taking longer the farther they are from the nearest Nexus or something. Or maybe putting a max radius on warp in's around the Nexus.
Obviously the Warp Prism negates that and maybe even the Mothership counting as a Nexus aswell?
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yay, a thing i thought about quite a lot.
there is no reason, why warpgates should build units faster than gateways. it just makes no sense.
but it will be a huge change. it changes all matchups. but i think not in a bad way. i think it will make the games more interesting. more opportunities for protoss, at the same time a nerf to all-ins.
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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Can't wait for half the Protoss' at my MMR rating drop back to where they belong. Bastards. 
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On April 22 2011 18:23 Drium wrote:
I don't really think this is needed. 4 gate is already defendable by non-4 gate builds in pvp.
Show a few replays if you think so. 
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Canada11496 Posts
Hm, it's an interesting idea. Dunno if it'll fix the problem, but I like the idea that there actually is a choice between gate and warpgate as one will produce faster, but at your base while the other will be slower, but whereever their is power.
If that doesn't work, then like other's have mentioned they could look into making warp-ins further away from your base take longer to the point that it can become a major hinderance at cross-positions.
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United States4126 Posts
On April 22 2011 17:39 AndAgain wrote:
Wait a sec, so will gateways now have faster build times than warpgate cooldowns?
I actually like this, since protoss will get to find a balance between gateways and warpgates. Either better utility with warp-ins or quicker build-times with gateways.
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On April 22 2011 18:25 toolphreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:55 Zzoram wrote:
why not just make warpgate require a twilight council? I really like this idea. Makes it just out of early game reach and gives protoss more incentive to get to templar tech again. More people should consider this.
The problem there is that it leaves P pretty weak until then. Unless you have sheer numbers or a heavy upgrade advantage, gateway units on their own are bad. You could just make an assload of sentries and turtle, but that's doing more to damage PvX than to help it.
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My simple solution:
- Move Warpgate upgrade to Twilight Council
- Slightly buff Gateway and/or Gateway units build time
- Bring back Khaydarin Amulet (in it's original form)
- Require Templar tech to be built from normal Gateways
Boom! Balanced! haha jk kinda, but I'm pretty sure Blizzard has been studying this for a while and will have a good solution.
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I think that's quite a clever idea, because it means that attackers will be forced to suffer whatever rush distance to their opponents base, or use warpgate and have your opponent (the defender) produce units at a higher rate.
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my dream of using gateways might come true... BW style toss here I COME!
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On April 22 2011 18:25 toolphreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:55 Zzoram wrote:
why not just make warpgate require a twilight council? I really like this idea. Makes it just out of early game reach and gives protoss more incentive to get to templar tech again. More people should consider this.
I do like that idea.
At this point, I'd take any change that encourages the use of Twilight (or even Stargate) over Robotics anyway.
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Welp.. now I get to proxy gate zergs!
Free wins inc
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On April 22 2011 17:55 Zzoram wrote:
why not just make warpgate require a twilight council?
Will make life very difficult. Having to go straight up twilight rather than robo. I guess it is a possiblity but I think that it would create more problems than it would solve.
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EPT
