EPTA thorough analysis of Force Fields - Page 11
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Quepp42
United States96 Posts
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Calm
Canada380 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
I really feel like it needs some sort of change, maybe have them be targetable with a small amount of health or make it so a single sentry can only throw down 1 every 10 seconds or so. I"m not sure, but i really feel like forcefield can solely change the tide of a battle and there isn't much a Zerg can do about it. | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
You can't retreat Well first of all Terran can, load up in your medivacs and fly away. Seriously though whats wrong with Protoss having a little map control? you can't retreat from marauders or speedlings either. Just do what Protoss do and hide at the top of your ramp until you have a stronger army than he does, then you take map control for yourself. Problem #2 No reinforcements from the main during a push Easy answer here seems to be defend better, make units earlier, throw up more static defense I don't know. This is a problem with the 4-gate or the 6-gate and has very little to do with forcefield. Maybe these pushes are too strong, I don't know and I don't care. Problem #3 It cuts your army in half Well yeah thats kind of the point. If this is overpowered then by all means increase the cost of the sentry or something, Blizzard can do whatever they normally do to determine whether they want something nerfed. The worst thing you can do though is simply take away the sentry's ability to do this. Problem #4 It reduces ability to micro whereas Brood War spells encouraged good control. Ah, here we have a winner. I can cite precedent from Brood War though. Stasis Field would freeze half your tanks and they would then get surrounded and die. That's exactly the same principle as the forcefield operates under. I love forcefields though because they don't suddenly take your army away. They require both good placement as well as coddling a fairly fragile unit (sentries are sooooo much easier to kill than arbiters). | ||
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
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ChefStarCraft
Canada350 Posts
It would still be possible to be grossly good with it, just will take some more focus placing ffs. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45937 Posts
On March 20 2011 03:11 ZasZ. wrote: The only change that should be made to FF is that it shouldn't be able to block ramps. No reason the Zerg should have to do everything in their power to keep Sentries away from the bottom of the ramp...or lose the game. It's silly. So you can 7-roach rush us every game and auto-win? Oh, I see  Protoss need to be able to FF their ramp to stop early harrass against roaches and marines/marauders (especially with concussive shells) I think if there were ever to be a nerf to forcefield, then making forcefields last for a shorter period of time would be the only justifiable nerf. -Making them smaller would really make them useless (they wouldn't block anything, and they'd especially provide no defense on ramps against early pushes where they're necessary). -Making them breakable (a.k.a. if they had hp) would make them useless in the mid-to-late game (think of how fast a 150-200 food army would kill off a few forcefields, regardless of the hp). -Making them crushable by more units wouldn't work because of how frequently we already see so many units in SC2. Unless perhaps you made it like the archon, infestor, and siege tank? That being said, I don't think forcefield needs to be nerfed at the moment anyway. | ||
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WniO
United States2706 Posts
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gosuRob
United States319 Posts
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IVN
534 Posts
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:31 WniO wrote: ffs are one of the coolest additions to sc2. it would be nice if they didnt last as long as they do though. I really do think it's an awesome spell (as  ). I also think GS and hallucination are underused - pretty much I <3 sentries (if I ever switch to toss it's b/c of them). That being said.. I can't stand the way  can just spam click and split up an opponents force into little pieces (and then watch while the AI makes any retreating units run into the wall and act confused). needs FF to defend early pressure, and I feel blocking ramps is fine - IF there was a change to FF, reduce the range from 9 to 6. | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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IVN
534 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:42 latan wrote: I'd like someone to comment on my thought that forcefield could be changed so they can't be casted on top of units or other forcefields. i think this would change a lot because it wouldn't be able to split armies apart so easily and it would also bring some way for the opponent to try to stop the forcefield usage. FFs would be outright useless. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45937 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:42 latan wrote: I'd like someone to comment on my thought that forcefield could be changed so they can't be casted on top of units or other forcefields. i think this would change a lot because it wouldn't be able to split armies apart so easily and it would also bring some way for the opponent to try to stop the forcefield usage. That pretty much means that you can't cast forcefields against Zerg during a battle (good luck throwing them down *between* zerglings) and how are you going to split any Zerg or Terran armies? That would be removing the offensive capabilities of FF, so I disagree with that suggestion. If a Protoss player overlaps FFs, then he's just wasting energy, so it's actually worse for him  | ||
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GiygaS
Canada1043 Posts
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IVN
534 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:51 GiygaS wrote: What if FFs, by one sentry, could only be put down if in a psionic matrix? Like, if a sentry is within a pylon, it can place as many ffs as he wants. But if not, the sentry can only be placed one at a time. Twilight council upgrade to get rid of this limitation. What if the Sentry had no FFs, but instead had 200 hp and made 20 dmg + 15 vs armored? (same firing rate as now) | ||
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
I personally like the 1FF per sentry fix but think maybe there should be an upgrade allowing for more? Though this wouldnt really help in a ramp block situation as you only need 1 FF out. To summarize, yes FF is crazy strong at the highest levels but is a required ability so unlike all the other nerfs, it cannot be simply removed. I don't have an answer as to what should be done. | ||
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eluv
United States1251 Posts
This could be the start of exactly what you've been asking for. A spell that seems absolutely ridiculous, and will take time to develop counters too. With that in mind, the thing you should all be asking for isn't for a nerf to FF, but rather some sort of micro based answer for zerg. Is that adding a spell to overseers to disable casters? Is that giving burrow movement to more units like zerglings and hydras? I don't know, but what I do know is the last thing SC2 needs is more nerfs. | ||
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:37 IVN wrote: IMO FFs are perfectly balanced against Zerg. July lost because he never got his burrow and burrow movement on time. He lost, because MC is a better player, not because of FFs. Okay dude, seriously. Start a game as zerg, and count how long it takes to get a bunch of roaches + burrow + roach speed + tunneling claws. Do it. Now compare that number with how fast a 4gate/6 gate comes. Okay great. That is why July just never seemed to bother. It is impossible. | ||
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