EPTBelief in an omnipotent pointless? - Page 15
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baal
10678 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
and since no one else seems to get it, badteeth do you not understand what I am saying when I claim that omniscience does nothing to disprove free will? that you have to make an assumption to come to that conclusion? | ||
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baal
10678 Posts
You are absolutely free to do anything, still god would know what you are going to do, prediction does not bound action. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
http://www.zimmers.net/phil/3omniswill.txt | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On November 06 2004 13:43 baal wrote: ofcourse omniscience does not disprove free will... You are absolutely free to do anything, still god would know what you are going to do, prediction does not bound action. so then why is it that no one else seems to be able to grasp this fact? | ||
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baal
10678 Posts
Imagine god predicts you, you are going to eat a dozen of apples today and tells you about it, so you will do anything to avoid apples that day. If you dont eat any, then god is not omniscient, if you eat them, you have no free will | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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baal
10678 Posts
On November 06 2004 13:49 travis wrote: .. and thats exactly what im talking about :-( yeah but i said it in 3 lines not a huge ass writting  , and why that mopey face?, im not going to read 10 pages while 99% of it its trash , sorry if i said something you already did. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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LaptopLegacy
Netherlands602 Posts
Would you agree that omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive for a temporal being like ourselves?? And what part of my explanation why god can't act if he's atemporal do you not understand? | ||
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ReBanned
1929 Posts
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
and how the hell can you say awareness is an outside influence when has your knowledge ever affected the outside world without you actually acting? others can act because u have that knowledge.. christians do all kinds of stuff because they think god watches them(has knowledge of their actions, but isnt really acting upon it now is he) | ||
Liquid`Daaman
Sweden1225 Posts
 Man just can't admit to himself that he's totally meaningless in the universe. My thoughts! | ||
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Kaotu
United States986 Posts
I understand what is being discussed, its not all that complicated, I just lack the ability to properly express myself. Travis said a good deal of what I've been trying to say. But basically, to try to disprove an omnipotent existence because we think free will and time contradict it is silly. Why? The whole idea of God is he is ABOVE us, honestly, use a bit of 3rd grade reasoning here... If he created every freaking thing, don't you think he knows a little more than us, and exists in a plane/dimension/whatever of existence far beyond us? The bible says 'to God a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years, a day".. No, this DOESN'T make any sense to us, at all. But our grasp of time is sad, as we live without any control over it at all, and it is above our ability to grasp (this is why I believe time to be a 4th dimension... We cannot explain anything about how it began, we cannot understand anything about things living outside of it, it is basically above our ability to comprehend no matter how you slice it). So, to try to limit God to human terms DOES make God nonexistent, but thats only because we only understand our own worlds. | ||
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ReBanned
1929 Posts
On November 06 2004 16:01 Kaotu wrote: Hmmmm who says time is not a dimension? I think the whole idea of a hypercube is flawed... Its trying to make another 3rd dimension, not a higher dimension. What I'm saying goes back to what I was saying before, which got really bashed I understand what is being discussed, its not all that complicated, I just lack the ability to properly express myself. Travis said a good deal of what I've been trying to say. But basically, to try to disprove an omnipotent existence because we think free will and time contradict it is silly. Why? The whole idea of God is he is ABOVE us, honestly, use a bit of 3rd grade reasoning here... If he created every freaking thing, don't you think he knows a little more than us, and exists in a plane/dimension/whatever of existence far beyond us? The bible says 'to God a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years, a day".. No, this DOESN'T make any sense to us, at all. But our grasp of time is sad, as we live without any control over it at all, and it is above our ability to grasp (this is why I believe time to be a 4th dimension... We cannot explain anything about how it began, we cannot understand anything about things living outside of it, it is basically above our ability to comprehend no matter how you slice it). So, to try to limit God to human terms DOES make God nonexistent, but thats only because we only understand our own worlds. Since when cant we grasp time. | ||
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STIMEY d okgm fish
Canada6140 Posts
assuming -there is an omniscient omnipotent being (would omnipotence imply omniscience anyways? in some ways yes in some ways no) and -evil exists -omnipotence could destroy evil -omniscience the being knows about the evil -choosing to let evil exist is evil -the being must then be evil that was the whole point. wtf are u wildboars prancing about | ||
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
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FrEaK[S.sIR]
2373 Posts
On November 06 2004 16:01 Kaotu wrote: Hmmmm who says time is not a dimension? I think the whole idea of a hypercube is flawed... Its trying to make another 3rd dimension, not a higher dimension. What I'm saying goes back to what I was saying before, which got really bashed I understand what is being discussed, its not all that complicated, I just lack the ability to properly express myself. Travis said a good deal of what I've been trying to say. But basically, to try to disprove an omnipotent existence because we think free will and time contradict it is silly. Why? The whole idea of God is he is ABOVE us, honestly, use a bit of 3rd grade reasoning here... If he created every freaking thing, don't you think he knows a little more than us, and exists in a plane/dimension/whatever of existence far beyond us? The bible says 'to God a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years, a day".. No, this DOESN'T make any sense to us, at all. But our grasp of time is sad, as we live without any control over it at all, and it is above our ability to grasp (this is why I believe time to be a 4th dimension... We cannot explain anything about how it began, we cannot understand anything about things living outside of it, it is basically above our ability to comprehend no matter how you slice it). So, to try to limit God to human terms DOES make God nonexistent, but thats only because we only understand our own worlds. You clearly failed highschool mathematics if you think a hypercube is flawed, a hypercube is a 4th dimensional cube. BigBalls will back me up on this, being that he is a mathematics major. Time is NOT a dimension. Who says time isn't a dimension? How about all the world's leading mathematicians and scientists? They good enough for you? They are actually debating whether or not there is an 11th dimension. Don't bring your mathematical ignorance into that subject until you go and read up on it please =[ And if you want to use the arguement that because god is omnipotent, we can't define him like we are, maybe I should stoop to childish because you cannot prove god, you cannot prove he is omnipotent. Circular arguments are dumb, stick to the philosophical and not the standard christian rebuttal. I prefer travis' approach, philosophical with a touch of the standard christian rebuttal, but with some thought behind it. FrEaK | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
i'd answer with "maybe" "maybe" doesnt cut it if ure trying to prove an argument in our case, the universe is the given system and god or w/e u call it thats outside our system since we cant use any means at our disposal to safely say if god exists or not(because a maybe isnt worth a damn when trying to prove something), we can only declare god to exist or not works like the axioms in mathematics, stuff u accept without being able to prove, and instead declare they are so edit: this is meant to be an argument for why the argument we're having is circular so hopefully u dont find circular arguments dumb, freak, especially if u like philosophy | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On November 06 2004 16:48 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote: christ cant u guys get through this simple thing assuming -there is an omniscient omnipotent being (would omnipotence imply omniscience anyways? in some ways yes in some ways no) and -evil exists -omnipotence could destroy evil -omniscience the being knows about the evil -choosing to let evil exist is evil -the being must then be evil that was the whole point. wtf are u wildboars prancing about you think something omniscient would have the same moral set as you? hell I can't even imagine something omniscient HAVING a moral set. Everything happens for a reason, including "good" and "evil" acts. An omniscient entity would understand the reason/purpose for them. | ||
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