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On February 10 2011 06:51 TheXenocide1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 06:44 Moody wrote:Hey! I play Protoss, but I'm only good at 4 gating... I think we should give my 4 gate a way to defend against a cloaked banshee. I see other plays just go kill the cloaked banshee rusher, but my macro and timing is bad... so I need a way to detect the cloaked banshee INSTANTLY! Any suggestions can be left here! THANKS!  Yes...SCOUT AND STOP 4 GATING There are builds that have counters. you are asking to make the 4 gate even stronger than it already is. Lets get detection with it so there is no hard counter. You need to expand your play past the 4 gate and play past the 10 minute mark when your build gets countered. Or your other option is to tighten up your 4 gate so there is no way a banshee could get out in time Also it takes a long time to build to banshee so you will have time to scout. And figure it out. If you see a factory with a tech lab really early and a starport building then a banshee is probably coming and you can build a robo in time and get an obs without trouble. If you see a bunker at the entrance to the base, you can guess that some tech is coming or a FE. So get a fake phoenix and check it out or get a quick robo to check
Lol sarcasm is lost on you isn't it.
lol OP, you just lost to cloak banshees didn't you? If this goes through, you'll see no-one ever make an observer ever again.
Not to mention from a lore point of view, if hallucinated observers can serve their primary function, then why can't hallucinated Collosus serve their primary function?
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Yes, I gotta be honest OP, this is a terrible idea. As many have stated, no obs would ever be built again, just the hallucination research.
This would be akin to get an upgrade that automatically made all overlords into overseers for Zerg, or an upgrade that gave Terran unlimited scans. Just not a good idea.
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On February 10 2011 07:11 TheXenocide1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 07:03 jinorazi wrote:
ok, this is actually not a bad idea and people are going crazy over it calling it imba.
1. it costs 100/100 and 85sec for research
2. it costs 100 energy, sentries start with 50
3. it is not permanent. got a cloak banshee? come in, see observer, run. come back when observer is gone. another 100 energy needed for an observer, you got plenty of time to do damage with banshee before that or a new sentry can hallucinate a observer again. same basic idea as scan, but observer can move and last longer.
4. it is not cloaked, same as hallucinate dark templar in bw.
i'm not for or against it, rather interested in how this might do if tested. it does open up more options for protoss, not an advantage.
robo is still a better, reliable counter to cloaks but this will allow some limited defensive measures. I dont think this is completely true. what it does is make it super easy for a toss to turtle up with emergency detection that is not stationary like a scan. You can just make a ton of sentries and be completely safe from everything with FF and emergency detection, and then you can scout and counter whatever you see cause you are 100% safe.
i can't say if that would be the case, but like i said, i'd like to see this tested to see if it really works or not. i have no problem with making robo for detection because in the end it comes to be about same cost for the initial observer.
robo+observer = 225/275
research+sentry = 150/200
its only 75/75 more for observer
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On February 10 2011 06:44 Moody wrote:Hey! I play Protoss, but I'm only good at 4 gating... I think we should give my 4 gate a way to defend against a cloaked banshee. I see other plays just go kill the cloaked banshee rusher, but my macro and timing is bad... so I need a way to detect the cloaked banshee INSTANTLY! Any suggestions can be left here! THANKS!
thanks made my day
ok now to the post
there are a lot of things that people suggest because:
-it wouldnt break the game
-it would help them
-its neat
-the other races have it too
my favorite examples of this are:
-reaver
-lurker
-zerg having a cliffwalking unit
-queen energy upgread
all these things sound nice but they arrent nessesary
starcraft 2 is a game with not a lot of units but very different units and that makes the game
no race have a unit that is compleatly useless if you build an other one (for example why would you get lukers if bainlings can do the same, why reavers when there are colosses)
starcraft is good because it is compact leave it like this 
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Terrible idea, would make creep tumor sniping incredibly easy PvZ, on top of shutting down roach burrow play vs pure gateway armies. Hallucinate is already quite powerful when engaging in scouting and misinformation and doesn't need a buff.
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On February 10 2011 07:18 me_viet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2011 06:51 TheXenocide1 wrote:On February 10 2011 06:44 Moody wrote:Hey! I play Protoss, but I'm only good at 4 gating... I think we should give my 4 gate a way to defend against a cloaked banshee. I see other plays just go kill the cloaked banshee rusher, but my macro and timing is bad... so I need a way to detect the cloaked banshee INSTANTLY! Any suggestions can be left here! THANKS! Yes...SCOUT AND STOP 4 GATING There are builds that have counters. you are asking to make the 4 gate even stronger than it already is. Lets get detection with it so there is no hard counter. You need to expand your play past the 4 gate and play past the 10 minute mark when your build gets countered. Or your other option is to tighten up your 4 gate so there is no way a banshee could get out in time Also it takes a long time to build to banshee so you will have time to scout. And figure it out. If you see a factory with a tech lab really early and a starport building then a banshee is probably coming and you can build a robo in time and get an obs without trouble. If you see a bunker at the entrance to the base, you can guess that some tech is coming or a FE. So get a fake phoenix and check it out or get a quick robo to check Lol sarcasm is lost on you isn't it. lol OP, you just lost to cloak banshees didn't you? If this goes through, you'll see no-one ever make an observer ever again. Not to mention from a lore point of view, if hallucinated observers can serve their primary function, then why can't hallucinated Collosus serve their primary function?
Not really I actually always 2gate/robo expand vs terran. I was only making a suggestion to maybe make the game more fun to explore. Sorry for posting a terrible idea ill stop now, and you can close this thread since its mostly just people yelling at me saying its a terrible idea -.-
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Or just don't be bad and scout. And properly react.
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as bill gates often says.... "this is the stupidest idea i've ever heard... *facepalms* "
4gate is already pretty broken, to add 'spawn observer' to a staple gateway unit is just...
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hallucinate probes and make it look like your 'all-ining' :D
then if they pull workers, you just ff the ramp and type *muahahahha i'll got you my pretty and yer little dog too*
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Some of the arguments in here are based on lore or fantasy... this game has all sorts of shit that doesnt make sense. To stay on topic, hallucinated immortals have hardened shield (they take 20 damage because it is reduced to 10 then doubled). If you hate this idea then hate it because its imba, not because it makes no sense with the lore.
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This would make 4 gate ridiculously strong against Zerg and against Terran. You discussed Zerg already. For Terran, any sort of 1/1/1 opening would be utterly destroyed unless multiple bunkers were constructed and repaired. Drop play would be eliminated simply by leaving a fake observer over the base, allowing P to contain and expand. Cloaked banshees, the traditional 1/1/1 response to 4 gates, would be ineffective. You would be basically giving Toss an actual unit producing structure. There would be little point of doing anything except high economy 4 gating and expanding behind it.
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hallucinated observer made my day...
but the thing most people here forget is:
hallucinated Collossi can destroy forcefields !
can't believe nobody considered that in this thread...
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seriously wouldnt work at all, it would remove cloaking units as a factor in the game. no sneak attack EVER again.
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Hallucinated cloaked observers would NOT be that useful for scouting. I'm quite sure that hallucinated phoenixes will be used for scouting should this change happen. This is not a bad idea, it just needs some tweaking for balance.
Protoss is basically forced down one tech tree in order to get moveable detection whereas Terran has access to scans, Zerg has Overseers as soon as they get Lair. Perhaps if the hallucinated observer only lasted for a short period time similar to a scan this would be more viable.
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Let's leave the theorycraft out of the Strategy Forum.
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EPT
