EPT[D] Hallucinated observer? - Page 2
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Trobot
United States125 Posts
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NacRuno
44 Posts
Similar to what OP suggested making the queens detectors might just be the right solution. Queens should be able to feel the presence of units over the creep on theory. And since they are usually at base it won't be used an offensive detector. Or can't we just disable cloak in the whole game? | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
It's balanced that 4gate and stargate strategies don't have mobile detection in the early and mid game. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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Logarythm
United States264 Posts
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JamesSwift
United States71 Posts
EDIT: It isn't free detection! You have to first build the sentry and second research hallucinate (and third have energy to cast the hallucination). And after that it isn't permanent anyways, so you can just run your banshees around until the obs vanishes and come back. | ||
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TheXenocide1
United States58 Posts
If queens could detect then banshees are no longer used, neither are dts. Or for that matter observers. Free and easy detection is dumb. You should have to sacrifice something to get detection. observers that can be hallucinated and not move does the same thing. This post is all about someone who does not want to sacrifice anything for detection. Which means there is no reason to scout for someone with easy detection. Then the only sneaky things that you have to worry about: hellions, baneling busts, and the 4 gate. So think about how the unit would effect every match up before you decide to make a huge change to the detection in the game. If you are having trouble with cloaked units in game then have a friend use cloaked units against you over and over and learn what it look likes from the scouting and the timing then you will be able to identify whats going on and counter it. | ||
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MentalGNT
Denmark1264 Posts
What about changing the observer so it is build from the cybercore instead, and requires either a robo, stargate or TC? That way protoss is forced to tech to get detection, but does not have to go robo? | ||
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Moody
United States750 Posts
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JamesSwift
United States71 Posts
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TheXenocide1
United States58 Posts
On February 10 2011 06:44 Moody wrote: Hey! I play Protoss, but I'm only good at 4 gating... I think we should give my 4 gate a way to defend against a cloaked banshee. I see other plays just go kill the cloaked banshee rusher, but my macro and timing is bad... so I need a way to detect the cloaked banshee INSTANTLY! Any suggestions can be left here! THANKS! Yes...SCOUT AND STOP 4 GATING There are builds that have counters. you are asking to make the 4 gate even stronger than it already is. Lets get detection with it so there is no hard counter. You need to expand your play past the 4 gate and play past the 10 minute mark when your build gets countered. Or your other option is to tighten up your 4 gate so there is no way a banshee could get out in time Also it takes a long time to build to banshee so you will have time to scout. And figure it out. If you see a factory with a tech lab really early and a starport building then a banshee is probably coming and you can build a robo in time and get an obs without trouble. If you see a bunker at the entrance to the base, you can guess that some tech is coming or a FE. So get a fake phoenix and check it out or get a quick robo to check | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
It would be upgrading hallucinated phoenixes by turning them invisible and giving them detection. | ||
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
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DuneBug
United States668 Posts
Therefore I don't see the purpose of discussing warp gate. I feel like this might actually be pretty balanced. Even though it would not fit with the physics of how hallucination is supposed to work. Hallucination would need a cost increase to 150 or 200/200. And it doesn't seem like the obs should be cloaked. Terran don't really face any penalties for scanning late game. Theoretically it's a mule sac, and so for toss... you have to build a sentry 50/100 vs a theoretical 250/0. And that sentry has to stay near your bases with 75 energy, observers move dog slow. Unfortunately it would probably break ZvP making roach burrow kind of worthless. Maybe could at least move hallucinate to the twilight council . | ||
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Dance.
United States389 Posts
They can go stargate/fast ht's/blink stalker/ etc etc and not have to worry so much about losing because they didn't have detection. What the hell?? There is a reason why detection is somewhat delayed, it's to avoid stuff exactly like that. You just don't want to be punished for being greedy. There is a reason why I don't fast expand vs. terran as zerg on small maps... Protoss can already get detection tier 1, zerg needs to wait till lair. Maybe I should make a post about how overlords should have detection so I can drone a lot and delay lair longer "and not have to worry so much about losing because they didn't have detection." Just deal with it. | ||
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FearTHeFrO
United States204 Posts
Also like I said earlier, if the observer was just used as another form of detection, as in when you hallucinate it it can't move and is able to be seen, I don't think that would make it to where observers are completely pointless. It's only an idea by the way, not really expecting this to actually be implemented in the game, just felt like theory-crafting on the strategy forums today. So don't yell at me too bad ^^ On February 10 2011 06:57 Dance. wrote: Sounds like a terrible idea, and one that is not very well thought out. There is no need for faster detection, you just want protoss to be easier... What the hell?? There is a reason why detection is somewhat delayed, it's to avoid stuff exactly like that. You just don't want to be punished for being greedy. There is a reason why I don't fast expand vs. terran as zerg on small maps... Protoss can already get detection tier 1, zerg needs to wait till lair. Maybe I should make a post about how overlords should have detection so I can drone a lot and delay lair longer "and not have to worry so much about losing because they didn't have detection." Just deal with it. er... ok sorry -.- | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
1. it costs 100/100 and 85sec for research 2. it costs 100 energy, sentries start with 50 3. it is not permanent. got a cloak banshee? come in, see observer, run. come back when observer is gone. another 100 energy needed for an observer, you got plenty of time to do damage with banshee before that or a new sentry can hallucinate a observer again. same basic idea as scan, but observer can move and last longer. 4. it is not cloaked, same as hallucinate dark templar in bw. i'm not for or against it, rather interested in how this might do if tested. it does open up more options for protoss, not an advantage. robo is still a better, reliable counter to cloaks but this will allow some limited defensive measures. | ||
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
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TheXenocide1
United States58 Posts
On February 10 2011 07:03 jinorazi wrote: ok, this is actually not a bad idea and people are going crazy over it calling it imba. 1. it costs 100/100 and 85sec for research 2. it costs 100 energy, sentries start with 50 3. it is not permanent. got a cloak banshee? come in, see observer, run. come back when observer is gone. another 100 energy needed for an observer, you got plenty of time to do damage with banshee before that or a new sentry can hallucinate a observer again. same basic idea as scan, but observer can move and last longer. 4. it is not cloaked, same as hallucinate dark templar in bw. i'm not for or against it, rather interested in how this might do if tested. it does open up more options for protoss, not an advantage. robo is still a better, reliable counter to cloaks but this will allow some limited defensive measures. I dont think this is completely true. what it does is make it super easy for a toss to turtle up with emergency detection that is not stationary like a scan. You can just make a ton of sentries and be completely safe from everything with FF and emergency detection, and then you can scout and counter whatever you see cause you are 100% safe. | ||
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