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I'm sure a lot of protoss players have had losses from a cloak banshee or dt getting into your base and you have no detection because you went for a non-robo build. I started thinking of ways that could maybe fix the whole "rock paper scissors" thing that happens sometimes in sc2 (mostly in pvp)
Basically the idea is pretty simple. Add a hallucinated observer to the list of things a sentry can hallucinate. It will be just like any other hallucination except that it can detect cloaked units. This would open up a lot of builds for the protoss player. They can go stargate/fast ht's/blink stalker/ etc etc and not have to worry so much about losing because they didn't have detection.
There would be some problems with this though. For instance, I think a 6-7 gate all in off two base would be extremely hard to stop in pvz. The best response to 6gate all in is burrowed roaches, and if you were able to see the burrowed roaches with a hallucinated observer this could make the build extremely deadly (not sure if it would be "imbalanced, but it would for sure make it a lot stronger". Or perhaps they could just make it so hallucinated observers can only detect cloaked units, not burrowed units.
I think the hallucinated build time being reduced was a great idea. Its another form of scouting for the protoss, but I still feel like the protoss is the most restricted race due to the fact that they always have to go a robo or lose because of a build order loss (example, going for a stargate build vs cloak banshee, or going for blink stalkers vs dark templars)
I also think pure gatway army into fast storm might be too strong vs terran. But again this is just a theory of mine.
What do you guys think of this idea? Do you think this would allow the protoss player to be less restricted in their build orders, or do you think this would make the protoss race too strong?
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No. The whole point of hallucinated units is that they are units that are FAKE. A hallucinated observer would be basically a free observer that can build instantly; it accomplishes all the things that a real observer can do, except that its life is temporary. Hallucinated units should be used to make your oppoent think you went for a different build, or that you have a bigger army then you do. I dont think they should should give line of sight, or that collossus can stomp forcefields, for example.
Plus there is the whole "why would you hallucinate units that can only be detected by a detector anyway' thing. The units are cloaked; it makes no sense to hallucinate things your oppoent can't see.
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A hallucionation is a product of psychic energies meant purely to confuse the enemy. It doesn't have any of the electronic components the observer uses to detect cloaked enemies because its made of energy.
Perhaps a sentry would be able to hallucinate an uncloaked observer with no detection, but i dont think that would be very useful.
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On February 10 2011 04:10 tnkted wrote:
No. The whole point of hallucinated units is that they are units that are FAKE. A hallucinated observer would be basically a free observer that can build instantly; it accomplishes all the things that a real observer can do, except that its life is temporary. Hallucinated units should be used to make your oppoent think you went for a different build, or that you have a bigger army then you do. I dont think they should should give line of sight, or that collossus can stomp forcefields, for example.
Plus there is the whole "why would you hallucinate units that can only be detected by a detector anyway' thing. The units are cloaked; it makes no sense to hallucinate things your oppoent can't see.
True, but I think a hallucinated observer would only be good at defending against cloaked units attacking your base. It wouldn't be very good at scouting because observers are pretty slow and hallucination does not last very long, you wouldn't get very much information out of it and a hallucinated phoenix is a lot better. But perhaps a hallucinated observer that was not cloaked but could detect cloaked units would be better.
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It would definitely make different tech trees more viable and would turn hallucination into a staple into the protoss build.
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Just wanted to inform you that you posted in the wrong forums
Cool Ideas go Here
Glad i could help 
EDIT: Next time i recommend reading this The Law
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as a protoss, i would love this to happen, but it would completely break the game and make building obs out of a robo fac, completely useless and it also makes zero sense from a lore standpoint, because hallucinations are supposed to be pure energy and do nothing that the real unit can do execpt look and move like it.
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Hallucinated immortals still have hardened shields, so hallucinated obs should have true sight, but it would definately make protoss uber imbalanced in P v Z by locking burrowed Roaches play.
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lol nah, Protoss don't need more cloaked stuff.
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On February 10 2011 04:22 PieShopPwner wrote:
as a protoss, i would love this to happen, but it would completely break the game and make building obs out of a robo fac, completely useless and it also makes zero sense from a lore standpoint, because hallucinations are supposed to be pure energy and do nothing that the real unit can do execpt look and move like it.
Well this wouldn't make observers useless at all. They are still very good even with this. Observers live forever and can constantly see what the opponent is doing. Hallucinated observers for scouting purposes would barely be able to make it to the base before they run out of time. But yea the lore thing is a good point, didn't really think of that. But this was only an idea that I had in my head.
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This would be really OP, why build observers ever again?
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Hallucination was made for the following reasons
1. Scouting while you are contained / not going robo-tech--- Hallucinated Phoenix's do the job very well, they are fast, are somewhat durable, and can trick your opponent you are going for Stargate tech
2. Giving you meatshields - Who doesnt want their opponent to think you have an extra 8 zeolots / 4 archons?
Hallucinated Observers would break the game entirely. Think about it this way, A sentry costs 100 gas, An observer costs the same, so why in the world would you ever build an observer that does absolutely NOTHING but scout when you can build a sentry that can attack, cast guardian shield, force field, and make the same observer?
In the case of an hallucinated CLOAKED CANNOT DETECT observer, i would personally think that is pointless and would be somewhat breaking the game as well. Observers are meant so that you can scout your opponent's base without them knowing. The fact that the observer itself is cloaked and the opponent has absolutely no way of denying the scout without the use of detection is just plain broken, Remember Overseers/Scans/Fungal Growth/EMP/Turrets are expensive! And besides, Hallucinated Phoenix's are much better for this role
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On February 10 2011 04:25 FearTHeFrO wrote:
Observers live forever and can constantly see what the opponent is doing.
They only live until the opponent gets detection. Then they die. Instantly.
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Free observers might break the game I think...
If you keep dying to cloaked banshees or DTs, then working on your scouting is a good idea. If you're scouting up your opponents ramp and don't see anything, then you can be suspicious and drop the robo versus terran or the forge versus protoss if it fits into your build. There's no point in being so rigid about your build that you can't bother doing something differently if you scout something that kills what you did.
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i understand, this has been mentioned long ago. basically, uncloaked observer(as with hallucinated dark templar) with detection. this will surely open up more options for protoss.
however, with the price of the observer dropped to 25/75, investing 200/100 on robo is not bad compared to 100/100 of hallucination.
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how about its cloaked but it cant detect. So you can still scout with it and make them use scans, but to have it detect as well would be OP
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Hrm what if you could hallucinate it, and all it could do is detect units, but it can't move. This wouldn't make observers as useless, mostly all this observer would be for is another form of detection.
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Kind of tangential but I wonder if hallucination should include buildings. Would be kind of neat to throw off a scout that you were going twilight council or something.
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On February 10 2011 05:44 Brandus wrote:
Kind of tangential but I wonder if hallucination should include buildings. Would be kind of neat to throw off a scout that you were going twilight council or something.
u can build and cancel for the same effect.
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And the hallucinated probes should be able to build and mine too. And hallucinated sentries can use hallucination to make more hallucinations.
Getting free detection with only going gateway tech would break the balance making cloak tech useless vs P.
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EPT
