Why so much Terran success in GSL? - Page 10

Everlong

Czech Republic1973 Posts

January 20 2011 15:57 GMT

#181

On January 21 2011 00:25 da_head wrote:
terran's pretty op right now. i haven't seen a decent strategy to beat their 1 rax fe currently. if anyone can let me know, i'd appreciate it.

4gate

NighT1133

United Kingdom86 Posts

January 20 2011 15:57 GMT

#182

I actually disagree with nearly all of the poll options, i guess "more people play terran" sort of falls under it but really it goes more in depth than that. Remember back when all the zerg players were crying terran OP, well quite a few of the pros changed to terran at that time (even pros such as idra were saying they would have to change to terran to stay competitive unless zerg got a balance change). On top of that obviously players were already playing terran. Hence more a lot of pros playing terran

Also its more micro based than macro based (doesnt have to be this way but most players decide to play terran this way) which many prefer

Another point is a lot of the maps favour drop based play especially on the terrain such as cliffs, which imo protoss and zerg havent fully explored yet

koppik

United States676 Posts

January 20 2011 15:59 GMT

#183

Player preference I think has a part in it, but probably maps are the bigger issue. It's true that new players who are serious about succeeding in SC2 were more likely to pick Terran in patch 1.0 (and probably still are). Like, MarineKing picked Terran because he heard Terran was OP. Maybe we'd have a ZealotKing otherwise.

Avril_Lavigne

United States446 Posts

January 20 2011 15:59 GMT

#184

On January 21 2011 00:45 Treemonkeys wrote:
Terran has an advantage against protoss in early game due to stim.

Terran has more options that their opponents need to prepare for and worry about.

There are too many maps that favor terran.

"Terran has more options that their opponents need to prepare for and worry about."

this statement is so overrated. Terran has a lot of openings, however they can only do one opening at a time. Scout the opening and this suggestion of a Terran advantage is negated.

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33719 Posts

January 20 2011 16:02 GMT

#185

Easier to play terran safely when you are the better player, as well as easier to play terran cheesily when you arent.

EDIT: My clairvoyance tells me this is going to get quoted along with a bunker rush game from not too long ago.

goiflin

Canada1218 Posts

January 20 2011 16:02 GMT

#186

I've noticed alot of early pushes, as terran, that can actually kill an opponent. Now, this isn't unbalanced. There are early pressure options with zerg and protoss as well. I think the problem is, is that terran can do these pushes, and, given that the players aren't terribly seperated in their skill level, the terran has almost no risk for doing it in the first place. The chances of you losing 4 marines in an early push vZ, is pretty low, if you're doing it correctly. If it doesn't work, and your opponent pushes against you with his own force, you can build a defensive structure that returns its investment, which again, leans towards the no risk spectrum of decisions. If a protoss builds cannons to stop a push, any race can walk away with 150*n damage done to the protoss economy, and not lose a single unit. If you push Z, and they build spine crawlers, it's the same thing. If you push terran, and he bunkers up, he can sell them. Of course, the situation arises when he uses turrets, though.

If a zerg misses his queens spit, he's punished by having to wait an extra N amount of seconds to get his larvae. If protoss misses his chronos, he's going to be punished by waiting an extra N amount of seconds to get his tech up. If terran misses his mules, he can just shift click five down on an expo. Another example of non-punishing gameplay aspects favouring terran.

I don't think that terran is overpowered. I think that terran strategies tend to be more surefire than Z or P. I hope that they can change this in the future.

JustPassingBy

10776 Posts

January 20 2011 16:04 GMT

#187

I wonder what happens if we attach weights according to the position,
i.e. a terran reaching the finals counts as two zerg/protoss/terran in the ro4,
a zerg earning the title counts as two zerg/protoss/terran in the finals.

I think that would represent the success of a certain race better than an unweighted statistics,
where nestea as the champions counts as much as any terran in the ro8.

BeMannerDuPenner

Germany5638 Posts

January 20 2011 16:05 GMT

#188

On January 21 2011 01:02 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Easier to play terran safely when you are the better player, as well as easier to play terran cheesily when you arent.

shit. this sums it up perfect in so few words. was about to write the same thing just like 10 times as long and half as clear.

wisdom spoken here.

Treemonkeys

United States2082 Posts

January 20 2011 16:06 GMT

#189

On January 21 2011 00:59 Avril_Lavigne wrote:

Show nested quote +

They also are the most difficult to scout, they can wall, they can swap tech around, they have the most units, and they are the most flexible. To even scout them effectively at all, protoss is forced into a tech patch and zerg is forced to sacrifice overlords. Terran can scout with a simple click, and yes it "costs" a mule, and they depend the least on scouting, because they have a baseline unit that is extremely strong against most air and ground. They don't have to tech to scout, they don't have to spend minerals up front to scout.

.Aar

2177 Posts

January 20 2011 16:06 GMT

#190

On January 21 2011 00:23 mesohawny wrote:
Saying "oh theres just more T players than Z or P, thats why theres more top terrans!" is extremely flawed logic,

Ask yourselvs WHY there are more T players than Z or P...

Is Terran the "cool kid" race? Or is Terran a little better than the other races?

Food for the thought.

I'm willing to bet money at least one progamer's thought process was something along the lines of, "Hey, didn't BoxeR play Terran in BW? I want to play Terran."

Or, "DUDE, AIRPLANES. GG."

Deja Thoris

South Africa646 Posts

January 20 2011 16:07 GMT

#191

Your poll doesn't address the fact that the players that got through could just have been better on the day.

Treemonkeys

United States2082 Posts

January 20 2011 16:07 GMT

#192

On January 21 2011 01:02 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Easier to play terran safely when you are the better player, as well as easier to play terran cheesily when you arent.

EDIT: My clairvoyance tells me this is going to get quoted along with a bunker rush game from not too long ago.

Terran also has the most powerful "cheese", and the best ability to recover from it if it doesn't go well - terran cheese is the least risky cheese.

I liked how Artosis rides bitbybit SO MUCH for the scv all-ins, and didn't say a damn thing when nada did it to tester every game.

Proxy rax doesn't go well? Fly it away.

Cloaked banshees don't go well? You can still use that starport for medicacs vikings, you can just put that tech lab on something else.

Proxy bunker doesn't go well? Oh, just sell it.

Now what happens with a proxy gateway doesn't go well? They lose the gateway and probably the game.

What happens if DT's don't go well? They spent money on a completely useless tech building.

These are just the reasons why terran is easier to cheese with.

goiflin

Canada1218 Posts

January 20 2011 16:10 GMT

#193

I liked how Artosis rides bitbybit SO MUCH for the scv all-ins, and didn't say a damn thing when nada did it to tester every game.

Nada has proven that he can play a macro game.

BitByBit's variance in strategy remains to be seen.

Everlong

Czech Republic1973 Posts

January 20 2011 16:11 GMT

#194

On January 21 2011 01:07 Treemonkeys wrote:

Show nested quote +

What is Terran cheese? Since depot -> rax I havent seen any kind of cheesy builds.. Of course you have 2rax vs 14 Hatch, but that is just punishing greedy Zergs.. I suppose you can proxy your stargate for cloaked banshees, but this is very rare..

Scrimpton

United Kingdom465 Posts

January 20 2011 16:12 GMT

#195

Sigh.

when did "T OP" become an acceptable thread on TL :S.

Focus on your own play and improve that, rather than on other races. 99% of posts here are going to be plat/low diamond anyway just scapegoating their badness.

Blizz has data collection tools that absolutely overbear everything that this terrible ranting can bring about.

If T is "OP" the data will reflect this and changes will be made.

You gain nothing from whining, but you can gain from knuckling down and learning how to play better.

mesohawny

Canada193 Posts

January 20 2011 16:14 GMT

#196

Getting rid of bunker salvage, or changing the function so that it takes LONGER and requires a few SCV's to do it while putting a cooldown on MULE would go a long way in balancing Terran I think. Or leave those aspects the same but cut the healrate down on the medivac

Noxie

United States2227 Posts

January 20 2011 16:17 GMT

#197

Terran has been successful but for the most part its been the same Terrans... And we also need to look at how many % of GSL players are Terran as well. Statstics are not split evenly. Keep that in mind.

And for the most part it seems as though the same Terrans are doing well. Not random no names coming out of the wood work, taking down the top zergs an tosses. Until we see something of the sort, I think its too early too call balance. Terran still hasn't won a GSL keep that in mind.

Everlong

Czech Republic1973 Posts

January 20 2011 16:18 GMT

#198

On January 21 2011 01:14 mesohawny wrote:
Getting rid of bunker salvage, or changing the function so that it takes LONGER and requires a few SCV's to do it while putting a cooldown on MULE would go a long way in balancing Terran I think. Or leave those aspects the same but cut the healrate down on the medivac

Read the post above yours and stop throwing random shit in..

Treemonkeys

United States2082 Posts

January 20 2011 16:19 GMT

#199

It's hilarious how risk-less a double bunker wall is for terran. Is it even possible for zerg to not come out a little behind? Unless they get lucky and kill the SCV's building.

WniO

United States2706 Posts

January 20 2011 16:19 GMT

#200

because terran has more options at every stage of the game. its that simple.

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