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On July 17 2011 08:20 sad312 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2011 08:16 Alabasern wrote:On July 17 2011 08:09 sad312 wrote:On July 17 2011 07:37 MiyaviTeddy wrote:
just ordered a Das keyboard :p
Probably give sort of like a review or my thoughts on it the day I pick-up the actual keyboard Please do. I actually went to the store today but i decided not to spend my money, instead research a bit more and instead buy a filco with brown switches. I heard blue switches are not good for double tapping and blacks are too stiff. So that leaves the brown with nothing negative Blacks are still better for double tapping than a traditional rubber dome cheap board. When I double click on my old HP keyboard it feels like I'm pushing on cardboard. Hm, im currently using a keyboard that is rubber dome. Is there really a big difference between a rubber dome keyboard to cherry mx black keyboard? In the positive way of course.
There's a huge difference for sure, and you'll feel it most in extended sessions with the boards. The blacks are a little stiff (compared to the Cherry MX varieties) but are superior to rubber dome boards in comfort and control. Cherry MX Blacks effectively are superior to a rubber dome in every way; speed, comfort, appearance, and will make you want to type more precisely. It's like typing with a Toyota Supra vs. a Toyota Camry.
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Is there a difference between switches from a same color or they have all the same tactile feeling ?
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Of course all switches of one color feel the same. Wouldn't exactly make any sense, otherwise.
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Ok then a keyboard mx brown which costs 80€ is finally almost the same as another one with brown switches which costs 150€ (as long as they have the same switch color) Am I wrong ?
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Only the switches are the same (MX <insert random colour here> from Cherry). Keyboards might still be 95% different with only the same switches. Ofc the switches are a key feature but there is still more stuff like LED, USB, Audio I/O, key cap/manufacture/material/overall quality etc
While a keystroke might feel very similar, it's not the same keyboard.
edit: The keystroke is ofc the same with the same switch but the key itself feels different with different quality and material.
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On July 17 2011 19:30 Laeon wrote:
Is there a difference between switches from a same color or they have all the same tactile feeling ?
Yes, they do. Thats the thing with the color, so you know what type of switch you're getting.
Tread is full of user opinions about the different types of switches.
i.e; Cherry switches,
Black switches, these are linear and takes ca 60g of force to actuate. They have no tactile feedback except bottoming out. They are noisier than rubber dome boards because of mounting plate(loads of inside pictures of different keyboards over at geekhack.org -review section).
Reds are also linear, but only take about 45g of force to actuate.
Blues are tactile with a clicky sound, and takes ca 50g of force to actuate.
Browns have tactile bump with no loud click, and takes 45g of force to actuate.
Cherry switches actuate at 2 of 4mm. This is about the same for all.
Check out this guide! -Common switches, force diagrams.
I have been using white alps switches a little, XM i think they're called(on a Filco ZERO tenkeyless). They are really fun to type on! There is only 3.5 mm to bottom out, they are tactile, clicky and take ca 70g of force to actuate. Really nice "snappy" clickety clack sounds when typing on these switches. It pleases the nerd in me^^, but they might be too heavy for some. But might piss off better halves, just as the blue cherry switches.
Some people complains about fatigue with the "heavier" switches, like i.e. XM and blacks. Browns might be the safest choice overall -low actuation force, and the tactile bump but it's not as noisy as the blues.
Browns are my personal favorite so far. In the end it all comes down to personal preference, and maybe if you have noise sensitive people around you(people on skype may whine too:p).
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On July 17 2011 19:49 Laeon wrote:
Ok then a keyboard mx brown which costs 80€ is finally almost the same as another one with brown switches which costs 150€ (as long as they have the same switch color) Am I wrong ?
All switches of the same color feel the same, but there are many other factors to a keyboards price point than just the switch type. Build quality is a big part of that along with keycaps. Some keyboards keycaps use methods of production that can cause them wear down relatively quickly over a period of time. But if it is your first mech keyboard I wouldn't worry too much about there being a major noticeable different between 80-150. What you get more 150 is usually often more looks and bells and whistles and 80 is a standard enough price where you can be relativity sure your getting a decent product (unless its a blackwiddow, which isn't bad but definitely wouldn't be my first choice for that price range).
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I have a Steelseries 6G. Iam tired of black heavy switches. For this reason, i want to change for brown switches. Iam in Korea right now and i have found a keyboard mx brown for only 80 000won (53€) so iam wondering if this keyboard is enought good to enjoy brown switches such as a 100€ keyboard. See my link in the previous page.
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Does anyone then whats the force required for the rubber domes ones? If its something similar to the blacks and then i might just buy a 6gv2 or the meka. If its something close to the brown then ill buy those ect.
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On July 17 2011 23:18 sad312 wrote:
Does anyone then whats the force required for the rubber domes ones? If its something similar to the blacks and then i might just buy a 6gv2 or the meka. If its something close to the brown then ill buy those ect.
Most(?) rubber domes should have about 60g but as it seems there is no standard it's hard to tell for every rubber dome keyboard.
Sources:
1) graph http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11335&stc=1&d=1277306614
(related article http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START HERE -- The Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Includes Glossary and Links)
2) (german article) http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/peripherie/2011/test-zowie-celeritas-tastatur/3/
The main difference is, what the 1st link shows us. The point when a rubber dome records the keystroke is, when it's completely bottomed out. You have to push the key that far and hard until the rubber went 'flat'. The point when you get the (sort of) feedback from the rubber is already before the keystroke is actually registered.
Ofc rubber is aging and the force needed and the feedback from distorting the rubber will change over time.
While mechanical switches might have the same operating force (depending on the model), they work different in case of the actuation point. For example MX blacks need about 60g actuation force as well and MX blues need about the same force to overcome the switching point. But the keys have 4mm from starting position to the bottom and they record the keystroke after 2mm already. Thats 2mm before you bottom the key out. You don't have to bottom the keys out the whole way down - but you can do so if you like.
There you have lots of numbers for all the different switch colours (starting on page 2):
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mechanical-switch-keyboard,2955.html
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On July 17 2011 23:18 sad312 wrote:
Does anyone then whats the force required for the rubber domes ones? If its something similar to the blacks and then i might just buy a 6gv2 or the meka. If its something close to the brown then ill buy those ect.
I believe the number ranges from 45-60g. However because the rubber dome usually wear and degrade overtime, the number varies and you never really consider it.
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On July 18 2011 00:51 (Max 20 chars) wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2011 23:18 sad312 wrote:
Does anyone then whats the force required for the rubber domes ones? If its something similar to the blacks and then i might just buy a 6gv2 or the meka. If its something close to the brown then ill buy those ect. Most(?) rubber domes should have about 60g but as it seems there is no standard it's hard to tell for every rubber dome keyboard. Sources: 1) graph http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11335&stc=1&d=1277306614(related article http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START HERE -- The Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide - Includes Glossary and Links)2) (german article) http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/peripherie/2011/test-zowie-celeritas-tastatur/3/The main difference is, what the 1st link shows us. The point when a rubber dome records the keystroke is, when it's completely bottomed out. You have to push the key that far and hard until the rubber went 'flat'. The point when you get the (sort of) feedback from the rubber is already before the keystroke is actually registered. Ofc rubber is aging and the force needed and the feedback from distorting the rubber will change over time. While mechanical switches might have the same operating force (depending on the model), they work different in case of the actuation point. For example MX blacks need about 60g actuation force as well and MX blues need about the same force to overcome the switching point. But the keys have 6mm from starting position to the bottom and they record the keystroke after 2mm already. Thats 4mm before you bottom the key out. You don't have to bottom the keys out the whole way down - but you can do so if you like. There you have lots of numbers for all the different switch colours (starting on page 2): http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mechanical-switch-keyboard,2955.html
It's 4mm to bottom out, and 2mm to actuation point for cherrys.
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On July 18 2011 01:29 snigor wrote:It's 4mm to bottom out, and 2mm to actuation point for cherrys.
Are you sure about that? Because the article on tomshardware.com says
Distance to actuation point
- 2 mm from starting position
- 4 mm above the base
As I understand it there are 6mm overall from top to bottom.
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I just bought a ducky keyboard DK9008G2 with brown switches. I heard good things about ducky and they have good products except its just hard to find a seller. I was hanging out on OC.net and found out they have a partner ship with ducky and have started to sell them. I bought ducky with ABS keycaps since the PBT ones are more expensive.
Edit: Anyone here have one/ own one and can tell me their experience with it?
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 01:58 (Max 20 chars) wrote:On July 18 2011 01:29 snigor wrote:It's 4mm to bottom out, and 2mm to actuation point for cherrys. Are you sure about that? Because the article on tomshardware.com says Distance to actuation point
- 2 mm from starting position
- 4 mm above the baseAs I understand it there are 6mm overall from top to bottom.
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm
"4mm travel"
Kinda confusing setup, in the link you posted.
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On July 18 2011 03:38 snigor wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On July 18 2011 01:58 (Max 20 chars) wrote:On July 18 2011 01:29 snigor wrote:It's 4mm to bottom out, and 2mm to actuation point for cherrys. Are you sure about that? Because the article on tomshardware.com says Distance to actuation point
- 2 mm from starting position
- 4 mm above the baseAs I understand it there are 6mm overall from top to bottom. http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm"4mm travel" Kinda confusing setup, in the link you posted.
Thanks for the link. I edited my original posting to 4mm instead of 6.
Either tomshardware made a mistake or they made a not that ideal table.
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Hey guys, I've read on geekhack and a few reviews here and there that the 6gv2's keys don't last very long and get tarnished. Has this happened to anyone else? And also, when ordering from the steelseries site when you select US does it change the large enter key?
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On July 18 2011 08:27 SPooNiTe wrote:
Hey guys, I've read on geekhack and a few reviews here and there that the 6gv2's keys don't last very long and get tarnished. Has this happened to anyone else? And also, when ordering from the steelseries site when you select US does it change the large enter key?
Remember that Geekhack is the keyboard equivalent of what TL is when it comes to GSL casters. If its not near perfect its horrible. If you havent been getting annoyed at your current keyboards and how the keys get shiny and so on - you wont have any problems with it.
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I just got a Das Keyboard Professional Silent (with Cherry MX Brown switches) and it is AMAZING to both type and game on. My forcefields are 1000% better (this may be partially due to the awesomeness of my new keyboard and partially due to the 'F' key not actually working all the time on my old one  ). I love that I can feel pretty much just when the key is actually pressed, unlike my old keyboard.
I do however miss the volume buttons on the side of the keyboard as I currently have my computer plugged through my guitar amp and if I unplug my headphones I need to drastically dial down the sound so as not deafen' my mrs/wake my daughter.
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EPT
