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On January 07 2011 08:33 Fa1nT wrote:
SC2 will get more popular as SC1 gets less popular
SC2 will also get more popular when the games and maps are more balanced
SC2 is not even a full year old yet and already has large scale tourneys with hundreds of thousands of online viewers, how far into SC1's lifetime did it take for that to happen? At least a few years.
SC1 has been getting less popular for years. This hasn't meant people have gone to SC2 since it wasn't released yet.
We don't know that a balanced game is more fun to watch. An explosive game that is balanced over all on good maps is probably more fun than a totally balanced game.
Where do you get the hundred of thousands numbers?
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United States4796 Posts
Give it some time indeed, but man it's scary. 
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On January 07 2011 08:33 Fa1nT wrote:
SC2 will get more popular as SC1 gets less popular
SC2 will also get more popular when the games and maps are more balanced
SC2 is not even a full year old yet and already has large scale tourneys with hundreds of thousands of online viewers, how far into SC1's lifetime did it take for that to happen? At least a few years.
SC2 did not start from scratch. In fact, Blizzard has pumped shitloads of money into this game. That's it though...money.
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On January 07 2011 08:28 Tyree wrote:
Gamers in Korea are more interested in MMO's now than ever before, in 2001 MMO's were merely browser based casual games in Korea, now they are easily more popular than the more competitive 1on1 type of games like BW and SC2.
I know this is true, but if this kills ESPORTS as we know it, I will be so very sad. I'm sure many MMO players have that competitive spark in them and would thoroughly enjoy a burgeoning ESPORTS scene, but they are simply being assimilated by this borg-like empire of time-stealing non-competitive gaming.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On January 07 2011 08:33 Fa1nT wrote:
SC2 will get more popular as SC1 gets less popular
SC2 will also get more popular when the games and maps are more balanced
SC2 is not even a full year old yet and already has large scale tourneys with hundreds of thousands of online viewers, how far into SC1's lifetime did it take for that to happen? At least a few years.
Yeah, not long: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181556
Given that there was no industry back then, $10k+ tours were springing up about 1year after BW was released.
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My experience and opinion: Me and many friends i know stopped watching GSL from GSL 2/3 ... i also stopped playing SC2 at all from almost 2 weeks and i don't plan to resume at all.
I think blizzard has actually failed to bring BW fun into a next generation game... so it's not GOMTV fault. I was a die hard fan of Starcraft 1 and if even I have stopped playing SC2 it will die probably soon... expansions or not.
It is simply not fun to play AND to watch after a few months... it's a normal game.
BW was epic game to play over and over. They are simply not comparable.
BW was on a clearly superior level...
Let's hope Blizzard doesn't fail on Diablo 3 as well because i will be too much disappointed also.
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Actually since the Incheon Tourism Group was a sponsor, GOM probably was given use of the stadium for free or at a serious discount as part of the sponsorship negotiation.
Chill. SC2 is fine.
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Does anyone know how many people watch the stream on average?
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On January 07 2011 08:33 floor exercise wrote:
I don't have much to add on the popularity in Korea but on a semi-related note I don't even know what's going on in the GSL.
I understand we are borderline insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but this is the first time in like 8 years of following pro SC that I have been this out of the loop of tournaments. The kicker being we actually have English commentary now in the #1 league (albeit the only league, but still)
I've felt generally apathetic about the state of Korean SC2 for a while now. I tune into foreigner stuff, but I just don't care about the Korean scene
I have a similar feeling. I think there's just too much crud in GSL. There's tons of people who just plain don't belong and lots that do but just aren't there. The games aren't exciting. You tune into an EU or US competition and generally you get some exciting games. They might not be the best builds to win or the most skillful matches but they are a lot more exciting.
I mean I don't want to watch a game with any Korean T but I love watching QXC or Drewbie in US comps or Bratok in EU. Same goes for P, why would I want to watch HongUn when you get Kiwikaki, Socke. Just feels like the majority of the time Koreans don't produce those exciting games.
Remember Socke vs Jinro in MLG? The only games from GSL that I hear people still talking about are either how well Jinro did, how MC raped everyone or the amazing Leenock vs Clide(A Ro32 game). It's understandable why no one goes to watch.
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It looks like Blizzard needs KeSPA afterall. Honestly, deciding to give Gretech rights to Starcraft 2 and forgoing any TV exposure was a poor move IMO.
If they can end their stupid grudge and compromise, I'm sure Starcraft 2 commentated by the OGN commentators will become HUGE in South Korea.
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Broodwar is by far a better game from a spectator's perspective. GOMTV can only be faulted on their decision to start broadcasting SC2 instead of BW (although really they were forced to do that by KeSPA). This could change in the future and I really hope it does, since it doesn't look like the foreigner scene is going to start focusing more attention on BW any time soon.
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On January 07 2011 08:32 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:28 kuresuti wrote:
GSL has still existed for a very short time compared to BW. It's much easier for the average viewer to get interested if you could just zap the channels and see some SC2 there. With just a streaming service at the moment there's nothing weird about SC2 having less viewers, it has nothing to do with BW being more enjoyable to watch or whatever.
OGN/MBC has years of experience, regular broadcasting times and an existing viewerbase to work with, GOMTV has none of those (Well maybe regular broadcasting times, but there's too little data to specify what is regular for the GSL at the moment). This argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Sc2 had a natural opportunity to inherit or interest a large viewer group that does not need to be convinced to watch a video game on "tv". Instead, that group has largely shunned the game within Korea. And your post ought to bring up a second question; one which has been asked ad nauseum... Why were exclusive rights given to a company with so little experience in the first place?
Fair enough, E-SPORTS popularity in itself could attract lots of viewers for GOMTV. But it's still a new game, and I think most people would still prefer to tune in to familiar lee-ssang roks or whatever, instead of signing up at an unknown site to watch an unknown game through a streaming service.
As for the second part, that is a question Blizzard could answer (Starcraft 2 happened, but Activision happened aswell...).
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Another thing, Blizzard doesn't promote the GSL much at all. I never see on their main site much about the GSL at all, a few of my friends who casually play SC2 had never even heard of it. It's something that Blizzard should say on the front page, WITH A LINK TO GOM IN BIG LETTERS, GSL LIVE @ [time]. And it should be restreamed for each time zone audience..
But Blizzard is too foolish to do something like that. They just hope they can throw cash at it and have others do it for them. I think they've been like that even before Activision cut in on operations.
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You can say what you want, but the main problem of SC2 is that around 75% or more are simple allin pushes. Macroplay is pretty much punished because 1 base strategies are utterly strong. Thats what makes it so boring in the end.
Remember the bo7 matches of last gsl? Done in within 1 hour? And that even tho there were huge breaks between games? Something like that makes it totaly unatractive to go to a studio, if the games are basicly done within a too short amount of time.
Seeing some real multitasking and fighting on the whole map is something we rearly ever see because right now the maps are not cut out for it.
I also agree that the units of SC2 are rather boring in the end. Most special abilities seem rather boring or not useful as they are right now (neural parasite and seeker missle for example).
Of course the game needs time to develop first, but could do you really see the game shifting to a more macro oriented and long term game state? I for myself don't see that happen.
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There are so many things contributing to the lack of popularity most poeple aren't aware of.
Like John said, it's not only outside of Korea that people think games are a joke and a waste of time. It's like that in Korea too. And match-fixing scandals aren't helping with the esports promotion either.
People get the idea that Korea is the paradise for gamers; everyone there is looked up to and respected. Which is not the case.
SC2 is still new and is constantly being patched; this can be frustrating for a majority of players. Strats you developed get thrown out the window and then you need to start practicing things all over again.
Example, in Chess. All the sudden throughout your tournament, bishops now move in straight lines and rooks move diagonally.
Esports is only a small community in each part of the world. Only united through the internet does it seem large.
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Sounds like more Korean media trying to throw mud on SC2 and GOM. While I definitely don't doubt that BW is far larger than SC2 in Korean at the moment, it is hard to imagine only 50 people going to see THE EMPEROR, giving the vod numbers and his overall mainstream popularity.
Even if these numbers are accurate I think it says less about the popularity of the game and more of the unpopularity of GOM and Blizzard. The Blizzard-Kespa has certainly made a lot of people antagonistic towards Blizzard and it is never more evident when you read some of the blog/media bias.
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On January 07 2011 08:36 dragonsuper wrote:
My experience and opinion: Me and many friends i know stopped watching GSL from GSL 2/3 ... i also stopped playing SC2 at all from almost 2 weeks and i don't plan to resume at all.
I think blizzard has actually failed to bring BW fun into a next generation game... so it's not GOMTV fault. I was a die hard fan of Starcraft 1 and if even I have stopped playing SC2 it will die probably soon... expansions or not.
It is simply not fun to play AND to watch after a few months... it's a normal game.
BW was epic game to play over and over. They are simply not comparable.
BW was on a clearly superior level...
Let's hope Blizzard doesn't fail on Diablo 3 as well because i will be too much disappointed also.
Same here except I don't play BW anymore either...
But I haven't liked a Blizzard product since TBC in WoW, and even then I felt the original game had more magic. Bah.
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I figured it would be pretty obvious this would happen, that sc2 would decline in korea in favor of bw, and the foreigner scene for bw would die (which pretty much happened the minute beta came out), and shift to sc2. I'm ok with it, as korean BW is the greatest thing ever.
And if y'all watched MSL ro16 yesterday, there was a pretty sizable crowd (although the games were pretty stacked  )
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On January 07 2011 08:32 tree.hugger wrote:
ESPORTS as a whole works fine, even in the West. MLG seems to really have something going, Dreamhack has something going, ect. But if we want Sc2 to work along the Korean model of ESPORTS, which parallels somewhat the model of major sports in the US and Europe, then I can't see any way that can be achieved without Korea itself being a participant.
There was a time that it was thought that MMA could never capture a western audience and without 100% support from Japan that MMA would fail. Now MMA in Japan is failing and flying in the rest of the world. Same scenario.
The ground that SCII has gained in the west is unreal. I went over to a friends house the other day and this girl that lives there was talking about SCII and how cool it is, and wanted to know if I knew people played it for a living (I was playing ignorant before that). This girl has never even heard of Esports until SCII.
I got to be honest, every single sign I see points towards SCII becoming a Western ESport.
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On January 07 2011 08:42 setzer wrote:
Sounds like more Korean media trying to throw mud on SC2 and GOM. While I definitely don't doubt that BW is far larger than SC2 in Korean at the moment, it is hard to imagine only 50 people going to see THE EMPEROR, giving the vod numbers and his overall mainstream popularity.
Even if these numbers are accurate I think it says less about the popularity of the game and more of the unpopularity of GOM and Blizzard. The Blizzard-Kespa has certainly made a lot of people antagonistic towards Blizzard and it is never more evident when you read some of the blog/media bias.
VOD numbers aren't that big at all. Actually, the VOD numbers in SK are pathetic.
http://ch.gomtv.com/450/28269
Many vods have less than 10k views, and even boxer's game only has 68,000 views.
Ok there is 1 boxer game with 170000 views.
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EPT
