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GSL Popularity - Page 3

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IamBach
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1059 Posts
January 06 2011 23:24 GMT
#41
On January 07 2011 08:20 Dont Panic wrote:
I think it's more of Blizzard's fault than GOMs. The units aren't as interesting and the maps are terrible.

i think this is a valid point
Just listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lCZeePG48
[wh]_ForAlways
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States235 Posts
January 06 2011 23:26 GMT
#42
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I feel like a lot of this is because the vast majority of the GSL games have been awful. Players either make huge blunders or incredibly low econ play. The few games where both players do secure a third base tend to be pretty awesome. GOMTV really needs to hire their own mapmaker now that Code S and Code A have been established; blizzard maps are horrendous for promoting macro games.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
January 06 2011 23:26 GMT
#43
I probably wouldn't drive 20 minutes or whatever just to see a qualifier or ro.64 match. wait until the finals
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
kuresuti
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
1393 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#44
GSL has still existed for a very short time compared to BW. It's much easier for the average viewer to get interested if you could just zap the channels and see some SC2 there. With just a streaming service at the moment there's nothing weird about SC2 having less viewers, it has nothing to do with BW being more enjoyable to watch or whatever.

OGN/MBC has years of experience, regular broadcasting times and an existing viewerbase to work with, GOMTV has none of those (Well maybe regular broadcasting times, but there's too little data to specify what is regular for the GSL at the moment).
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#45
I think BW is more fun to watch right now than SC2 just because the players are either better, BW is better, or it's that SC2 is so young that strategies aren't very interesting.

I did watch the boxer game live the other day and THAT was exciting. Action all over the map. They need to add macro maps to SC2 really bad, that's what was exciting about BW for me.

as for ways to improve the GSL, I'm not really sure. Hasn't it been massively advertised in SK? If not, then that might work...
Hark!
Ighox
Profile Joined July 2009
Norway580 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#46
On January 07 2011 08:15 acie wrote:
actually I would wait to see until the final 16 code s tourny to start before judging the popularity, These group stages aren't particularly compelling

Tomorrows games are something we can judge by, if only 10 people show up on the day July, Nada, IrOn and InCa are playing, then they've got a problem :p


But honestly I think a lot of it is just because of how Blizzard have been acting in SK now around SC2 launch and they trust the already established BW scene instead of gambling on that the SC2 scene will be awesome and not crash and burn.
All the advertisement bullshit before SC2 launch and suing OGN/MBC and demanding that they should shut down the leagues until negotiations are done.
(Not siding with anyone on this issue to be honest and that's not the point either, but no matter who the big bad wolf is here, it certainly makes both Blizzard and GOMTV look pretty bad even to me, I'd imagine it's a lot worse to many koreans that are much closer to the BW scene.)
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#47
Disappointing and scary for SC2's future =\ I knew the audiences in the gom studio looked small. I wonder what the Code S players were thinking on opening day when they saw the gymnasium was 9/10ths empty :|

I never played broodwar, but it's really easy to get caught up in the scene. I barely even know what I'm watching but it just seems like broodwar games are so much more entertaining and in-depth than what I've seen in SC2 lately. A lot of the games I've seen in the GSL recently(especially season 3) were just awful. The quality(both player skill and entertainment value) of SC2 games can't compete with broodwar yet IMO.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Tyree
Profile Joined November 2010
1508 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#48
The landscape for eSport with RTS has changed alot in Korea, even BW has had a massive decline in viewership and attedance for the last 4 years. Alot of people attributed this to Starcraft 2 as if the game was at fault, but in all actually the decline and lack of interest started way before the game saw release of day.

Alot of BW fans think that if SC2 didnt exist, their game would be super popular again in Korea, but thats just not looking at the situation correctly.

Gamers in Korea are more interested in MMO's now than ever before, in 2001 MMO's were merely browser based casual games in Korea, now they are easily more popular than the more competitive 1on1 type of games like BW and SC2.


However im sure even GOM knows that it took years before SC really took off in Korea, so they know they have to be patient. We foreigners are only entertained because we get to see Jinro, Idra, TLO (previously), Ret, but the actual quality of matches is lacking in general. Thats enough for us, but for Koreans they need quality games to be interested.

Out of the 3 GSL finals, we only had 1 great game, MC vs Rain on LT, that is obviously my own opinion but i think many people share that or at least similar opinions.
★ Top Gun ★
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 23:30:25
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#49
SuperDanielMan tweeted this some time ago:
[image loading]

http://twitpic.com/3n4mbp

Thought it would be somewhat relevant here... Go nuts.
화이팅
debasers
Profile Joined August 2010
737 Posts
January 06 2011 23:28 GMT
#50
On January 07 2011 08:24 etheovermind wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 08:20 Dont Panic wrote:
I think it's more of Blizzard's fault than GOMs. The units aren't as interesting and the maps are terrible.

i think this is a valid point


Yeah, the units are too poorly balanced. I mean, the game might be balanced, and some units are interesting, but still you get matchups like PvP which are just stupid.
Jacuzzi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States528 Posts
January 06 2011 23:29 GMT
#51
Not sure if anybody's mentioned this yet, but it's fucking COLD in Korea right now. I wouldn't wanna go out in single digit temperatures when I can stay home and watch in front of the fireplace or something. I'd brave the cold for the finals, but not for the first round or two.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
January 06 2011 23:29 GMT
#52
On January 07 2011 08:20 Turgid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 08:18 mark05 wrote:
I dont know much about the location of these recordings but if i was like 50miles away id go each time i can, and im not korean.
Could it be some kind of protestation or they just don't liek the game?


Someone from Something Awful posted an article in Korean that he claimed said that the Koreans have complained about the quality of the games and apparently even think the players play too many games, or something like that. The first point is extremely valid. SC2 has many bad games at this point in time. It happens. I'm personally still entertained by a good 1base timing push but I can definitely understand how it would be lame or not fun to watch, especially compared to Brood War. I'm an SC2 noob but I started watching MSL and those dudes are sick.



its a important point imho. many many recent games (esp in gsl3) were plain terrible. going somwhere just to see totally boring games is not something wanna will do.

the average sc2 game just doesnt deliver as often as the average bw game does. add how the "wow i could never do that" factor is almost gone in sc2 , how there isnt the whole scene with the drama established like bw has it and its not hard to understand why ppl arent as excited.


On January 07 2011 08:18 mark05 wrote:
I dont know much about the location of these recordings but if i was like 50miles away id go each time i can, and im not korean.
Could it be some kind of protestation or they just don't liek the game?



doubt i would do the drive often. when ppl i really like play sure (foreigners,boxer,july,nada,mc etc) but other then that meh...
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
MrShank
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada144 Posts
January 06 2011 23:30 GMT
#53
i think the obvious is, using SEX.
yes thats right, having half naked korean girls on stage etc etc
SEX sells, MORE sex, SEX SEx sEx sEX seX
wooo sex

User was temp banned for this post.
Relax - its just a game
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 23:34:38
January 06 2011 23:32 GMT
#54
On January 07 2011 08:28 kuresuti wrote:
GSL has still existed for a very short time compared to BW. It's much easier for the average viewer to get interested if you could just zap the channels and see some SC2 there. With just a streaming service at the moment there's nothing weird about SC2 having less viewers, it has nothing to do with BW being more enjoyable to watch or whatever.

OGN/MBC has years of experience, regular broadcasting times and an existing viewerbase to work with, GOMTV has none of those (Well maybe regular broadcasting times, but there's too little data to specify what is regular for the GSL at the moment).

This argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Sc2 had a natural opportunity to inherit or interest a large viewer group that does not need to be convinced to watch a video game on "tv". Instead, that group has largely shunned the game within Korea. And your post ought to bring up a second question; one which has been asked ad nauseum...

Why were exclusive rights given to a company with so little experience in the first place?

On January 07 2011 08:23 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 08:21 tree.hugger wrote:
On January 07 2011 08:11 pfods wrote:
I think korea needs to look outwards if it wants to survive as the mecca of starcraft and esports. They can only live on broodwar for so long, especially with so many of the pros switching over to starcraft 2. For one, a revision of how GOM presents the GSL to the west would be great. I know a lot of people that would watch if it weren't on at 4 in the morning. It's nice to have a livestream and all, but perhaps a delayed stream per each timezone would be better. Guaranteed to attract more viewers, and if they put ads in the stream, they would acquire revenue to promote themselves and the game more than they do now.

That said, I know blizzard wants starcraft 2 to succeed in esports(at least I hope they do). If korea fails to deliver, I can easily see blizzard stepping up and hosting a GSL like tournament.

Korea has the interest, infrastructure, and legacy; they're nowhere near getting supplanted as the worldwide mecca of ESPORTS. If Sc2 fails as an ESPORT in Korea, then it will have failed as an ESPORT period. Success at the occasional big lan and WCG is nowhere near the kind of exposure or success that the Korean BW model has achieved. Plenty of games fit into the Western model, but the goal all along has been for Sc2 to aspire to something higher than that.

And I'm less convinced than you are that Blizzard cares about the future of ESPORTS. I'm pretty positive that they're either completely incompetent, or they don't care in the slightest.


Although I disagree that we need Korea for E-sports to work, I do have to agree that my faith has been shaken in Blizzard caring about E-Sports.

ESPORTS as a whole works fine, even in the West. MLG seems to really have something going, Dreamhack has something going, ect. But if we want Sc2 to work along the Korean model of ESPORTS, which parallels somewhat the model of major sports in the US and Europe, then I can't see any way that can be achieved without Korea itself being a participant.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11908 Posts
January 06 2011 23:32 GMT
#55
Does anybody have viewership numbers on sc2 events from beta until now in the western world? Just wondering if the amount of viewers are declining on both fronts.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
January 06 2011 23:33 GMT
#56
I don't have much to add on the popularity in Korea but on a semi-related note I don't even know what's going on in the GSL.

I understand we are borderline insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but this is the first time in like 8 years of following pro SC that I have been this out of the loop of tournaments. The kicker being we actually have English commentary now in the #1 league (albeit the only league, but still)

I've felt generally apathetic about the state of Korean SC2 for a while now. I tune into foreigner stuff, but I just don't care about the Korean scene
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
January 06 2011 23:33 GMT
#57
SC2 will get more popular as SC1 gets less popular

SC2 will also get more popular when the games and maps are more balanced

SC2 is not even a full year old yet and already has large scale tourneys with hundreds of thousands of online viewers, how far into SC1's lifetime did it take for that to happen? At least a few years.
pfods
Profile Joined September 2010
United States895 Posts
January 06 2011 23:33 GMT
#58
On January 07 2011 08:21 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 08:11 pfods wrote:
I think korea needs to look outwards if it wants to survive as the mecca of starcraft and esports. They can only live on broodwar for so long, especially with so many of the pros switching over to starcraft 2. For one, a revision of how GOM presents the GSL to the west would be great. I know a lot of people that would watch if it weren't on at 4 in the morning. It's nice to have a livestream and all, but perhaps a delayed stream per each timezone would be better. Guaranteed to attract more viewers, and if they put ads in the stream, they would acquire revenue to promote themselves and the game more than they do now.

That said, I know blizzard wants starcraft 2 to succeed in esports(at least I hope they do). If korea fails to deliver, I can easily see blizzard stepping up and hosting a GSL like tournament.

Korea has the interest, infrastructure, and legacy; they're nowhere near getting supplanted as the worldwide mecca of ESPORTS. If Sc2 fails as an ESPORT in Korea, then it will have failed as an ESPORT period. Success at the occasional big lan and WCG is nowhere near the kind of exposure or success that the Korean BW model has achieved. Plenty of games fit into the Western model, but the goal all along has been for Sc2 to aspire to something higher than that.

And I'm less convinced than you are that Blizzard cares about the future of ESPORTS. I'm pretty positive that they're either completely incompetent, or they don't care in the slightest.


I really don't think korea is a necessary component for esports. At the moment it is as it's the most successful place to go for your esports career. But I have faith that if korea has a massive failure as far as the popularity of starcraft 2 goes, then other companies/sponsors/people will take the initiative. I think it was MLG that just go a huge boost in funding to expand and improve.

Now I know it was in vogue to make fun of the big north american tournaments while they were going on, but they were a huge deal for the esports scene in this country.
IamBach
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1059 Posts
January 06 2011 23:34 GMT
#59
On January 07 2011 08:33 Fa1nT wrote:
SC2 will get more popular as SC1 gets less popular

SC2 will also get more popular when the games and maps are more balanced

SC2 is not even a full year old yet and already has large scale tourneys with hundreds of thousands of online viewers, how far into SC1's lifetime did it take for that to happen? At least a few years.

what if sc1 doesnt become less popular? Most of us here on teamliquid dont want sc1 to become less popular and i dont think its any different in korea.
Just listen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__lCZeePG48
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-06 23:36:33
January 06 2011 23:35 GMT
#60
On January 07 2011 08:29 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2011 08:20 Turgid wrote:
On January 07 2011 08:18 mark05 wrote:
I dont know much about the location of these recordings but if i was like 50miles away id go each time i can, and im not korean.
Could it be some kind of protestation or they just don't liek the game?


Someone from Something Awful posted an article in Korean that he claimed said that the Koreans have complained about the quality of the games and apparently even think the players play too many games, or something like that. The first point is extremely valid. SC2 has many bad games at this point in time. It happens. I'm personally still entertained by a good 1base timing push but I can definitely understand how it would be lame or not fun to watch, especially compared to Brood War. I'm an SC2 noob but I started watching MSL and those dudes are sick.



its a important point imho. many many recent games (esp in gsl3) were plain terrible. going somwhere just to see totally boring games is not something wanna will do.

the average sc2 game just doesnt deliver as often as the average bw game does. add how the "wow i could never do that" factor is almost gone in sc2 , how there isnt the whole scene with the drama established like bw has it and its not hard to understand why ppl arent as excited.



+1 like to me i dont give a damn to code a/s tour atm caused' i know they are too many bad players in them=_= i just give it a look when boxer/idra/jinro/mc/fd/nestea etc solid players in there. and the 1/2 base play by most players r simply boring to watch - cheese looks so bad and macro game is usually one sided.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
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