EPTPlayers vs Casters - Page 5
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Dog22
United States140 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:45 Anther wrote: What's the problem with there being one referee, and this one referee privately handing the replays over to specific casters? I think that's a pretty good idea | ||
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comis
United States333 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:43 I_Love_Bacon wrote: I really don't get why lag is what is talked about so much. Seriously, how are people not worried about the integrity of the game and obvious ways to cheat? People cheated when there was less on the line and a couple of well known sc2 players have dark pasts regarding such events. What suddenly makes you think that now, when there are even more events and more money at stake, some people wont try to get a leg up and cheat? Everybody wants live events, but we have to be realistic with the options in front of us. Until streams can all operate on a legitimate delay then there can be cheating. Until tournament organizers put their foot down in regards to 1 stream per game (2 maybe in some cases) then lag can be an issue. You can't bring cheating into the discussion of an online tournament imo. Back when I was involved in BW tourneys there were constant accusations of maphacking, players playing for others (anyone remember the massive Elky WCG drama or Artosis/Pieux mini-fiasco?), intentional dc's etc etc. Not to mention the fact that you can simply download a maphack and have a much easier time of cheating than going through all of the above. Or be friends with the ref. There's so much potential cheating with an online event that you just can't account for - it should not be included in this discussion imo. Cheating in online events will always be a "benefit of the doubt" type of thing. | ||
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CruSha
United States5 Posts
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
On September 06 2010 09:49 figq wrote: Yep, the truth is every live streaming could have been just instant replay-cast, right after the game had already finished. No one would be hurt. It's simply a matter of custom. If people agree to do it that way, I don't see it causing more trouble compared to how it is done now. Also, in the end the player's comfort is the most important; otherwise there won't be quality games to watch anyway. Yeah I think this would be great at least for online events. As for live events I wouldn't see much of a problem with streaming it as it is being played IF there was LAN in SC2. We all know that Blizzard is pretty stubborn with their new no LAN policy, but even if they only made it available to people who get Blizzard tournament licenses I think that would suffice. They could simply give some sort of key or something to people who are running tournaments so they can download a patch to provide them with the ability to play on LAN. Afterward, they would have to download the old patch in order to play on live again. Is this a realistic suggestion or not? Personally I don't see any problems but I don't know all the tech stuff and maybe I am just missing something. Feel free to call me out on it if I am. | ||
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demonik187
United States575 Posts
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
Blizzard's attempt to make SC2 into a great E-Sports game seems to be riddled with holes.. | ||
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Schickysc
Canada380 Posts
As a tournament caster myself, I prefer replays. Pause and rewind are an under used tool available to us. Recently I have begun using it more, and it is absolutely amazing. I can rewind a key battle, show the micro, show the mistakes, and just let everyone see epic battles over again, in a slow motion type effect. It gives the players less lag, and less things to blame mistakes on. It almost completely eliminates cheating (maphacking can still exist) It also gives us the ability to stream/cast games back to back with almost zero delay. We can wait a few hours or so after the tournament games actually start, start gathering replays, and then just cast for many straight hours. In these live events, with livestreamers in the games, we often get 15mins-1hour breaks in between matchups. This is awkward for viewers, because it takes a significantly larger portion of time to view an event. Thanks for making this write-up HuK. | ||
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zTz
United States476 Posts
On September 06 2010 09:40 HuK wrote: . As far as I know no "livestreams" have any delay besides a few seconds added to their stream. Really seems like a good idea to put on the forums of ALL streaming services: ustream, Justin.tv,own3d.tv, and Livestream (p.s. Please stop using livestream, they are the lowest quality and have the most commercials. But that's just me...) On September 06 2010 09:46 rackdude wrote: They should just have a main cast with a good known caster and a "dead cast" with just the game noises. The dead cast should be easy to find for other casters to be able to restream with their own cast on top of. I think this is a really good idea, having a verified lagless ob provide a stream for casters to restream would be a great solution to lag. Only problem would be video quality of restreaming an already reduced quality stream. | ||
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yh8c4
108 Posts
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:45 GenoZStriker wrote: This. This is what we need. Sadly there is no LAN for SC2 but it would rid most of the problems players like HuK, MorroW and Idra are pointing out. This is what happens when Blizzard fail to implement a LAN feature. It was obvious that these problems would occur. Here's to hoping that they'll include it in the expansion. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
Yeah I remember QQing so hard (along with many many others) in the first HDH thread about how they wouldnt be live and how it wouldnt be the same, but 2 minutes into the game I completely lost myself and just straight up enjoyed them as much as I could have enjoyed them live. That said if LAN tourneys start casting replays instead of Live games I will complain, maybe because of the sheer number of people who would know the outcome before me ps. Huk I really feel for you, the casters sense of self-importance during your game vs. Adelscott was abominable | ||
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Calidus
150 Posts
On September 06 2010 11:00 Fantistic wrote: This is what happens when Blizzard fail to implement a LAN feature. It was obvious that these problems would occur. Here's to hoping that they'll include it in the expansion. I doubt Blizzard will release a LAN feature to the public, It is much more likely that they would release a LAN feature(I would guess a mini version of Bnet 2.0 for a server) for "Blizzard Supported Tournaments." LAN opens the door to numerous things both good and bad that blizzard does not want to deal with. ^ | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:56 yh8c4 wrote: i don't really understand why the discussion doesn't end with the "livestreaming enables cheating" argument. So does internet, should we now play LAN-events only? | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
Personally, the only issue I have when it isn't live is that the caster often knows who won already, so it isn't much of a surprise. Sometimes you can avoid getting spoiled, and they won't outright tell you who won, but you can sort of tell in their voice, and there are always Freudian slips. But yes, if players don't want casters, they shouldn't be forced on them. | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
Anyone who would cheat via livestream has the option of cheating via maphacking, so =/ | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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DreamScaR
Canada2127 Posts
On September 06 2010 11:03 gogogadgetflow wrote: I also agree with there being a single referee in the game, personally handling the replay and being the sole arbiter of decisions (with backup from admins as necessary)... the casters should have absolutely no say in any decision. Yeah I remember QQing so hard (along with many many others) in the first HDH thread about how they wouldnt be live and how it wouldnt be the same, but 2 minutes into the game I completely lost myself and just straight up enjoyed them as much as I could have enjoyed them live. That said if LAN tourneys start casting replays instead of Live games I will complain, maybe because of the sheer number of people who would know the outcome before me ps. Huk I really feel for you, the casters sense of self-importance during your game vs. Adelscott was abominable It wasn't self-importance, it was what we were told. A lot of the issue came down to the casters/players/admins all talking with each other to see what would happen. Once we found out it would be done by replay, if you were watching. There was no bitching, everything went smooth except for the odd time that my replay would be slightly ahead. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On September 06 2010 10:50 comis wrote: You can't bring cheating into the discussion of an online tournament imo. Back when I was involved in BW tourneys there were constant accusations of maphacking, players playing for others (anyone remember the massive Elky WCG drama or Artosis/Pieux mini-fiasco?), intentional dc's etc etc. Not to mention the fact that you can simply download a maphack and have a much easier time of cheating than going through all of the above. Or be friends with the ref. There's so much potential cheating with an online event that you just can't account for - it should not be included in this discussion imo. Cheating in online events will always be a "benefit of the doubt" type of thing. The major difference being live streaming adds an insane level of cheating that can't be detected. Use of maphacks etc can be found out and when replays are looked at discrepancy in keybinds etc can sometimes become obvious. Simply watching a live stream or somebody relaying you advice who is watching it? Virtually impossible. And one of the major things is how many more events and how much more $$$ is on the stake with more players than ever. | ||
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101TFP
420 Posts
livestream also tend to give buffering problems, which will cause you to miss out on a few things. plus, livestreams always have way worse quality than replay commentaries edit: watching a stream of the IEM group stage right now, it is soooo obvious that both players have the stream running / someone giving them information from it. they always react exactly to what the caster says. :/ | ||
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